Baseboard Construction

[Houndog1372]

Hi all, 

 

I'm just about to start building my new layout, having had my garage converted into a room a few days ago. The layout will be approx 24ft by 8ft. 

Regarding materials, we were originally looking at constructing the baseboards with Plywood. Having costed up the baseboards, we are looking at over £1,170  for all the wood, that is before we even start to buy the track and other parts. 

Is there any other materials we could potentially use that would be equally as reliable (such as 2x1), without risking the baseboards warping? 

I've shopped around looking at prices for Plywood, however I'm not having much look in finding materials that are cheap (Everywhere seems to be the same regarding prices)

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks 

Matthew 

 

[Jeff Smith]

This is a large layout and will be housed in variable temperature and humidity conditions unless you have insulated and will keep some heat in there in the winter.  I would build it in manageable modules using open top construction with well braced 6mm ply painted or sealed on both sides and about 150mm deep. Modules are much easier to work on, particularly wiring on the underside or removing to work on elsewhere.  This should reduce the material cost considerably.

 

Here's an example of lightweight module construction using thin ply.  This is only 1'x3' but larger modules can be built on the same principle.  You have to know what the landscape is going to be and profile the ends and sides with the track bed through the middle.  This gives the railway-through-the-landscape effect which is so much better than everything being above track level with solid top baseboards.

 

[TheQ]

The only material that is cheaper than ply,  is mdf,  but plain non waterproof mdf needs painting.  The best way to use it is make a piece, or several piece check   they fit paint then assemble. Wear a face mask when cutting mdf,  I do for major ply cutting as well. 

 

My own preferred method of construction is extruded polystyrene or PIR,  but it is more expensive than plain ply. 

The other way making it more affordable,  is don't build all the baseboards at once, start one end and gradually work your way round the room. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by TheQ

[kevinlms]

Have a search for this book. It's American, but some excellent ideas there.

 

https://www.hpb.com/products/how-to-build-model-railroad-benchwork-9780890242896

 

The methods described best suit fixed layouts (I assume yours is), but the same techniques can be applied to portable layouts.

[Joseph_Pestell]

55 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

Have a search for this book. It's American, but some excellent ideas there.

 

https://www.hpb.com/products/how-to-build-model-railroad-benchwork-9780890242896

 

The methods described best suit fixed layouts (I assume yours is), but the same techniques can be applied to portable layouts.

 

Kevin's suggestion is usually known as L-girder, generally attributed to Linn Westcott who was editor of Model Railroader for many years.

 

For a permanently fixed layout, it is ideal. Apart from buying some good straight lengths of 4" x 2" to cut the girders from (or some Dexion L-shaped metal), most of the rest can be scrap lengths of timber (offcuts) apart from the trackbed itself.

 

David Jenkinson's "Little Long Drag" was constructed using a variant of L-girder and there is an article about it in RM circa 1975.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

8 hours ago, Houndog1372 said:

...I've shopped around looking at prices for Plywood, however I'm not having much luck in finding materials that are cheap (Everywhere seems to be the same regarding prices)...

It does cost, in both materials and construction effort. But do it well, and the quality remains long after the expense is forgotten.

 

Another enthusiast for open top construction such as L girder. More economical on expensive good quality ply for the track base, can be built sectionally or modularly as you will, which lends itself to wiring and motorising points with free access to both sides of the track base working on the bench rather than in a  rain of solder working from the underside, easily modified in future.

[5050]

I made my 'L's from 4" deep lengths of 1" MDF cut by the supplier for me at purchase, glued and screwed together.  They've been under my layout now for almost 20 years (!!) now and not moved/twisted/warped etc. at all  -and they are 10' long supported at the ends only. I also use a version of 'L' girders on portable layouts to allow some flexibility when routeing point operation rodding, positioning track feeds, signals etc.

[chris p bacon]

15 hours ago, Houndog1372 said:

Having costed up the baseboards, we are looking at over £1,170  for all the wood,

 

Can you break that down as it seems an awful lot for ply (even Birch)

 

To give an idea the materials for these boards ic the hinges etc were only £200

[Jeff Smith]

Great pasting table.....

[chris p bacon]

24 minutes ago, Jeff Smith said:

Great pasting table.....

It does the really long drops in the hallway and landing.

[doilum]

One advantage of the wooden girder system ( apart from weight and cost) over 4x,2 is that the plywood can be cut dead straight. The soft wood can be "corrected" to the straight edge making a very true girder. A good wood yard or helpful B&Q will rip a sheet of plywood into accurate 150mm strips free of charge..

A budget alternative would be to take two 150mm strips of hardboard and space them using 2x1 softwood too create an eight foot beam. Total cost around a fiver each.

[Joseph_Pestell]

11 minutes ago, doilum said:

One advantage of the wooden girder system ( apart from weight and cost) over 4x,2 is that the plywood can be cut dead straight. The soft wood can be "corrected" to the straight edge making a very true girder. A good wood yard or helpful B&Q will rip a sheet of plywood into accurate 150mm strips free of charge..

A budget alternative would be to take two 150mm strips of hardboard and space them using 2x1 softwood too create an eight foot beam. Total cost around a fiver each.

 

I tried something like this but using some secondhand 3mm ply. It was a useful technique for building curved baseboards.

[Andy Hayter]

On 17/08/2020 at 06:50, TheQ said:

The only material that is cheaper than ply,  is mdf,  but plain non waterproof mdf needs painting.  The best way to use it is make a piece, or several piece check   they fit paint then assemble. Wear a face mask when cutting mdf,  I do for major ply cutting as well. 

 

My own preferred method of construction is extruded polystyrene or PIR,  but it is more expensive than plain ply. 

The other way making it more affordable,  is don't build all the baseboards at once, start one end and gradually work your way round the room. 

 

 

I reallly don't understand why extruded PS is so expensive in the UK

 

https://www.castorama.fr/panneau-polystyrene-expanse-120-x-60-cm-ep-40-mm-r-1-05-m-k-w-vendu-au-panneau/3334160402648_CAFR.prd

 

120 x 60 x 4cm  costs €3.17 per panel (say a generous £3 per panel) and this from the French version of B&Q - both owned by Kingfisher.

 

Anyone coming to France on their hols might consider a diversion - could even make the 14 day quarantine worthwhile.  Gives some time to build the baseboards!

[chris p bacon]

4 hours ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

 

I reallly don't understand why extruded PS is so expensive in the UK

 

 

 

It's not Andy, you're not comparing  the correct product. This is an equivalent of what you've linked to which is available at Wickes

https://www.wickes.co.uk/Kay-Metzeler-General-Purpose-Polystyrene-EPS70---2400mm-x-600mm-x-50mm/p/210802 It is more money but it is twice the size and 10mm thicker (50mm) It is actually what we used to call 'blown polystyrene'. It has no strength and can be snapped easily (just carrying it to the truck in wind will do it!)

 

Extruded is this sort of stuff   https://www.wickes.co.uk/Kingspan-TP10-Insulation-Board---2400-x-1200-x-50mm/p/180436   it is rigid, and with a simple frame to edge it, is now used for baseboards.

 

[DCB]

My experience is that If you buy wood from a DIY store it will warp.  The only stuff that does not warp is properly seasoned second hand wood which has already warped if it is going to.  Skips are a good source of materials, old doors etc but avoid pallets. Run it through a circular saw to true it up, sand it and it looks brand new.

 I would take a serious look at L girder construction if starting a model railway  from scratch. Ply is great for a toy train table on which you can swap the set track round to make different layouts or for exhibition layouts which one person has to fit in a Ford Focus three or four times a year.  However L girder construction gives great scope for scenery and avoids that awful drumming ply can create.  US Model magazines are a great source of ideas. Looking at some 1999 US mags I realised they were streets ahead of where we are now 20 years ago.

[Jeff Smith]

That may be because not many US layouts are portable, mostly permanent in basements etc.  I've yet to see a good layout in the flesh over here.   At shows and swapmeets there are usually the flat top modular type where several people join their modules together so quality is variable and not uniform.  The few feature layouts I've seen at rail museums or similar have been extensive but only moderate quality.

[polybear]

4 hours ago, DavidCBroad said:

My experience is that If you buy wood from a DIY store it will warp.  The only stuff that does not warp is properly seasoned second hand wood which has already warped if it is going to. 

 

Been there   Spend ages looking for the one or two nice straight bits in among all the dross, pay for it and take it home.  At which point it looks so twisted you could use it as a propeller.....

[doilum]

Currently demolishing a large shed 23x15' for a neighbour. It has been recycled at least three times and was originally built, probably in the 1960s, from reclaimed floorboards. These would be pitch pine and are amazingly straight. A new life as a hay barn awaits them!

Sadly, once common in reclamation yards these are getting harder to find. Machine cut ply is the only way to achieve permanently straight timber today. If you have the transport and are willing to travel, useful ply offcuts are to be found on the internet. Some years ago I built a large club layout having found a local door manufacturer who sold the 6x 96" 6mm birch ply offcuts at 50p a length. Ok, this was thirty years ago but there is still industrial waste to be had.

[Andy Hayter]

11 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

 

It's not Andy, you're not comparing  the correct product. This is an equivalent of what you've linked to which is available at Wickes

https://www.wickes.co.uk/Kay-Metzeler-General-Purpose-Polystyrene-EPS70---2400mm-x-600mm-x-50mm/p/210802 It is more money but it is twice the size and 10mm thicker (50mm) It is actually what we used to call 'blown polystyrene'. It has no strength and can be snapped easily (just carrying it to the truck in wind will do it!)

 

Extruded is this sort of stuff   https://www.wickes.co.uk/Kingspan-TP10-Insulation-Board---2400-x-1200-x-50mm/p/180436   it is rigid, and with a simple frame to edge it, is now used for baseboards.

 

 

I think you are right Dave.  I have pointed to the wrong product, but I paid about the same for my boards (not blown) to the same dimension.  No fancy foil just plain board like the one I linked to.

 

https://www.castorama.fr/panneau-polystyrene-extrude-emboitable-multi-usage-soprema-125-x-60-cm-ep-40-mm-r-1-20-m-k-w-vendu-au-panneau/8437007530063_CAFR.prd

 

Is more like it but mine did not have the T&G.

[5050]

3 hours ago, doilum said:

 I built a large club layout having found a local door manufacturer who sold the 6x 96" 6mm birch ply offcuts at 50p a length. Ok, this was thirty years ago but there is still industrial waste to be had.

A lot of my ply offcuts came from a guy who lined out Transit vans.

[doilum]

2 hours ago, 5050 said:

A lot of my ply offcuts came from a guy who lined out Transit vans.

I had forgotten about that source. Mine came via a Vauxhall main dealer in 36x12 lengths pre treated. Amazing stuff.

[jasp]

On 19/08/2020 at 12:59, Andy Hayter said:

 

I think you are right Dave.  I have pointed to the wrong product, but I paid about the same for my boards (not blown) to the same dimension.  No fancy foil just plain board like the one I linked to.

 

https://www.castorama.fr/panneau-polystyrene-extrude-emboitable-multi-usage-soprema-125-x-60-cm-ep-40-mm-r-1-20-m-k-w-vendu-au-panneau/8437007530063_CAFR.prd

 

Is more like it but mine did not have the T&G.

There is a company, Seconds and Co which sells slightly damaged Kingspan approximately half Price.

[Hibelroad]

Seconds and Co have a minimum order of £300 plus £40 delivery (plus Vat?), so not that useful. I have built a small 00 test track using insulation board, very lightweight but it will not take pins or screws. I think users glue in plywood blocks where fixings are required for point motors etc. 

[57xx]

On 19/08/2020 at 01:07, chris p bacon said:

Extruded is this sort of stuff   https://www.wickes.co.uk/Kingspan-TP10-Insulation-Board---2400-x-1200-x-50mm/p/180436   it is rigid, and with a simple frame to edge it, is now used for baseboards.

 

 

I don't think Kingspan is the stuff, Dave. It's more like this: https://www.insulationsuperstore.co.uk/product/danosa-danopren-tr100-extruded-polystyrene-pack-of-4-boards-1-25m-lengths.html

Kingspan (and celotex) warp like buggery if you take the foil off. It seems to be integral to the structure of the board.

[ikcdab]

On 17/08/2020 at 01:20, Houndog1372 said:

Hi all, 

 

I'm just about to start building my new layout, having had my garage converted into a room a few days ago. The layout will be approx 24ft by 8ft. 

Regarding materials, we were originally looking at constructing the baseboards with Plywood. Having costed up the baseboards, we are looking at over £1,170  for all the wood, that is before we even start to buy the track and other parts. 

Is there any other materials we could potentially use that would be equally as reliable (such as 2x1), without risking the baseboards warping? 

I've shopped around looking at prices for Plywood, however I'm not having much look in finding materials that are cheap (Everywhere seems to be the same regarding prices)

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks 

Matthew 

 

£1170 is an awful lot of money.  You would get a lot of ply for that.  An 8 x 4 sheet of 9mm is around £25. If you cut it into 100mm strips for girders you get 28 metres of girder. So I am struggling to get anywhere near £1100. Can you post your plans on here?