1165Valour Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 (edited) Odd scenario, but here goes: assuming you a have a boat train service between a branch line terminus at a seaport and a main line station, what relatively quick tank engine should be chosen, from the entire range of British steam engine classes? It's a branch line, so no Streaks or Spamcans. The distance between the branch terminus and station and is about 30-40 miles. Edited October 28, 2020 by GWRSwindon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TravisM Posted October 28, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 28, 2020 As you’ve not put a region I’d say that it’s likely the biggest would be Black 5’s, BR Standard 4-6-0’s and B1’s, all depending on region. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 What timespan is your boat train service, pre-grouping? inter-war? This will also affect the type of loco in use. cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyRule1 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 You say no Spamcans but the West Countries were often employed as branch line locos on the Withered Arm and therefore if your boat train was from one of the many South West ports this might have been the most likely motive power. However you do say Tank engines so in my local area, East Anglia, I would suggest an L1 as these were seen on services to ports. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted October 28, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 28, 2020 A 4-4-2T, "Tilbury" tank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted October 28, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 28, 2020 Not a boat train, but the Cambrian Coast Express used to wind it's way round the creeks and inlets of coastal Wales headed by a 4-6-0 Manor class loco. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimC Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 (edited) It seems a kinda odd question, because there were branch lines that were built to maximum weight restrictions, double track etc and could take exactly the same locomotives as the main line if necessary. It seems unlikely to me that a significant boat train service wouldn't be a through train to London or whatever city, even if the rest of the services on the line were two coach stopping services. I can't see many boat trains, with all the baggage that implies, being all change at the first junction with the main line. So I suspect everything depends on the detail. Are you thinking of a major International terminal for your port with big liners docking, or a little local port with a twice a week ferry taking 50 people to an island 20 minutes away? To my mind you are not going to get a general answer. I think you either need to decide the history and construction of your branch and port, which will tell you what locomotives would be required to run the traffic, or else decide what locomotives you want to run, and then define a history and construction that explains them. Now if you were to pick pre group LBSCR as your period, they certainly had big tank engines running boat train services, but I'm not sure many others. Edited October 28, 2020 by JimC 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 How much is a bus fare? How long is a bit of string? sort of question. A 40 mile branch would be more of a secondary line rather than a branch and would require a loco with water capacity for a 40 mile run non-stop. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slilley Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 The Kingswear Branch had Castles running over them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastglosmog Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 If the Milford Haven and Neyland branches are the sort of thing you have in mind, then Halls, Counties and Manors would be seen. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Kirkham Posted October 28, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 28, 2020 (edited) There was a "boat train" on the Bristol & North Somerset line - a single line branch. It provided a connection to Bristol at Frome from the Weymouth-Paddington Channel Islands service and ran with Express headlamps stopping only at Radstock and Pensford. The loco was a 45XX, 4575 or 57XX. On summer Saturdays in 1932 there was a through Birmingham - Weymouth boat train that ran non-stop over the branch. The type of loco isn't stated but I could well imagine it would have been a 43XX Mogul. (from Through Countryside and Coalfield by Mike Vincent) To answer the OP's request for a specific tank loco, I would say a 4575 if it was on the GWR. Edited October 28, 2020 by Andy Kirkham 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Kirkham Posted October 28, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Oldddudders said: Not a boat train, but the Cambrian Coast Express used to wind it's way round the creeks and inlets of coastal Wales headed by a 4-6-0 Manor class loco. But often a tank engine - 4575 or 82XXX. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Kirkham Posted October 28, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 28, 2020 49 minutes ago, JimC said: It seems a kinda odd question, because there were branch lines that were built to maximum weight restrictions, double track etc and could take exactly the same locomotives as the main line if necessary. It seems unlikely to me that a significant boat train service wouldn't be a through train to London or whatever city, even if the rest of the services on the line were two coach stopping services. I can't see many boat trains, with all the baggage that implies, being all change at the first junction with the main line. So I suspect everything depends on the detail. Are you thinking of a major International terminal for your port with big liners docking, or a little local port with a twice a week ferry taking 50 people to an island 20 minutes away? If I were being pernickity, I might suggest that that the original premise was a bit unlikely - if a port were busy enough to support a dedicated boat train, then the railway that served it would be a main line rather than a branch. But I'm a believer in Rule 1. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted October 28, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 28, 2020 39 minutes ago, slilley said: The Kingswear Branch had Castles running over them. The Kingswear branch had Kings running on it 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 Would you count Liverpool Riverside as a branch line to a seaport? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LMS2968 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 I'm not a hundred percent sure on this, but I believe boat trains to Stranraer were worked by Crewe North 5X Jubilees, specially fitted with token apparatus to work over the single line sections. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted October 28, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 28, 2020 The obvious example is Fishguard Harbour, originally conceived as a Transatlantic port but for the most part serving one ferry shuttling to Rosslare and back twice every 24 hours, one in the wee small hours and one in the afternoon. A single line branch, with the boat trains hauled by Castles mostly. It also dealt with a nightly cattle boat service to Waterford, so cattle trains as well, with Halls. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted October 28, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 28, 2020 (edited) The closest parallel that I can find to what the OP is asking for is the GSWR branch down to a port on the Clyde (Edit: Princes Pier, Greenock). I think that those boat trains were hauled by 2-6-4Ts.https://www.railscot.co.uk/img/11/279/ Edited October 28, 2020 by Joseph_Pestell 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
burgundy Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 8 minutes ago, LMS2968 said: I'm not a hundred percent sure on this, but I believe boat trains to Stranraer were worked by Crewe North 5X Jubilees, specially fitted with token apparatus to work over the single line sections. I have a vague recollection of a photo showing a 2-6-4 tank heading a Stranraer boat train. Best wishes Eric 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted October 28, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 28, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said: Would you count Liverpool Riverside as a branch line to a seaport? Never part of a mainline railway (owned by MDHB) but operated by EE class 40 diesels in later years would, IMHO make it count. Edited October 28, 2020 by melmerby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium petethemole Posted October 28, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 28, 2020 The Lymington branch from Brockenhurst was worked by BR Standard 4 tanks in later BR steam days. These would cover the 40 miles at speed quite easily with 6 or 8 on. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 (edited) 30 to 40 miles is stretching it a bit for tank locos, however there were numerous cases of tanks on long runs, the Clyde Coast boat trains being the most obvious parallel with Caley 4-6-2 Tanks and GSWR 4-6-4 Tanks giving way to LMS 2-6-4T and BR Standard 4MT 2-6-4Ts. NB wise they had 4-4-0T and 4-4-2T locos replaced largely with V1 and V3 2-6-2T on the best services. GWR wise a 51XX 2-6-2T would be a likely candidate as they worked Taunton, Minehead but on that length of run you would expect them to be turned to face smokebox first after each run. The Southern had 2 X LBSC 4-6-2Ts and seven(?) 4-6-4Ts, the 4-6-4ts were hacked into Remembrance class 4-6-0 tender locos in the 1930s. The LMS had a lot of LTSR 4-4-2T locos with large (6ft 6"?) driving wheels, replaced by 2-6-4Ts as too small for London Tilbury and Southend services and no use for anything else. Several were stored at Carlisle for years, one or two of them could have worked boat trains on your fictional Branch. Most impressive fast tank? Probably GWR 4-4-2T County Tanks,6ft 8" driving wheels but they had all gone by 1934, maybe one or two could have been kept to work a fictional branch. The reverse of using a small tender loco which could negotiate a branch on a long run was Lymington Pier on the South Coast where D15 4-4-0s were used on Boat trains from Waterloo long after their sell by date as bigger, (probably longer) locos were not allowed. They tried 2-6-0s when the 4-4-0s were withdrawn then admitted defeat and AFAIK changed engines to a 2-6-4T at Brockenhurst in the last years of steam. Edited October 28, 2020 by DavidCBroad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 57 minutes ago, LMS2968 said: I'm not a hundred percent sure on this, but I believe boat trains to Stranraer were worked by Crewe North 5X Jubilees, specially fitted with token apparatus to work over the single line sections. Pretty certain that it was actually the Kingmoor Jubs that worked these trains forward from Carlisle (the 'Northern Irishman' sleeper being the principal train from the south); also the Clans allocated there. They apparently had detachable token apparatus, rather than permanently fitted. (Sorry, not quite aligned to OP's question, who did, incidentally, ask specifically about tank engines) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1165Valour Posted October 28, 2020 Author Share Posted October 28, 2020 10 hours ago, GWRSwindon said: I didn't expect this topic to take off quite like it has, my apologies. In any case, I'm trying to figure out what sort of engines would have worked the Kirk Ronan branch of Awdry's Sodor. He mentions in the companion volume that there is a ferry service between Dublin and Kirk Ronan, with comments by his son seeming to indicate the service terminates at Vicarstown, about 30-40 miles away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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