2021 hopes

[TomScrut]

8 hours ago, RyanN91 said:

Ah Hornby do love the BR Class 43 HST Intercity 125 train sets the 2019 GWR is a very good seller!  I remember the enthusiasm and hype about how it was reintroduced into the 2019 range catalogue! "plus a very welcome return to The High Speed Train Set brought right up to date in latest GWR livery". 

 

My issue with that set was always the front lights. And before anybody says "but it's a cheap set" or "kids don't care", yes it is cheap relatively speaking, but the Eurostar for example is the same price and it looks like the prototype (and has 2 carriages). Also I think it's pretty disrespectful of kids to think they aren't observant, in a lot of respects kids are more observant than adults in terms of details some would regard as silly or insignificant. I know for a fact when I was a kid I'd have picked up on that, trains were my favourite things in the world at one point.

 

I just think some printing over the lights to create the circles would have helped, or a remould of the small plastic lighting part.

[TomScrut]

6 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

Firstly, regarding my confusion with the DRAX hoppers, I always thought there was one type (the one Hornby did), but when I had asked about DRAX hoppers once, I had a few people tell me that there's more than one and was pointed in the direction of the Accurascale one. But yes those are GBRf ones. I stand corrected. 

 

Yes, I wasn't trying to be funny with you I was just making it clear what I thought we were talking about!

 

6 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

As for re-runs, yes I know other limited edition models have been done again after a certain period of time. However I was always led to believe that the DRAX biomass hoppers were a one time thing and one time thing only. This is what Andy Y said in the main thread about the Hornby DRAX biomass hoppers - "The comparatively high price is due to the limited run commissioned by Drax with the associated cost, no-one's making any huge margin on it and it is very definitely a one-off opportunity as the tooling is not owned by Hornby and isn't likely to be used other than this publicity run."

 

Fair dos, I just also think if enough noise is made they might happen again perhaps? If somebody can afford to tool them in N (which is a smaller market than OO) and sell them at 2 for £70 odd then maybe a look at the market and at the pricing would lead to some money being made, which is in everyone's interest if there is enough people wanting to spend it.

[tomparryharry]

Other might confirm this, but tooling rarely gets 'binned'. Tools normally are affixed with carrier tooling, which will be the property of the company which acts as a contractor for the client (in this case, Hornby ).  The tooling inserts remain the property of the client.  Whilst these  inserts are on the contractors premises, there is (normally ) agreements in place, as to the safe-keeping of the inserts.  For a contractor to dispose of inserts, there will be a very clearly-defined set of instructions, between  owner (Hornby ) and their contractor. 

 

Hornby :- " Can you make tool number X for our upcoming re-release of Flying Scotsman? We need 10,000..."

 

Contractor:- "Oh dear, we've just sent it for scrap..."   You get the idea. Owning companies will issue instructions to contractors to scrap & dispose tooling, but it will normally be fully documented somewhere, if only to legally cover someone's backside. 

 

One classic I can recall is the 5x12" minilite mould. We ran 4 moulds, with another 2 spares always getting cleaned & overhauled.  In time, these moulds needed replacing, so another 6 arrived to replace the initial 6.  These initial moulds weren't disposed of, but stored. 5 years down the line, this was repeated,   In this case, all of the initial dies were inspected, and the best 2 were refurbished and stored. The other 4 being scrapped off. The requirement was to accommodate low-volume production runs for UniPart.  

 

Cheers,

Ian. 

[TomScrut]

5 minutes ago, tomparryharry said:

Other might confirm this, but tooling rarely gets 'binned'.

 

The famous one is when Hornby moved production to China, but yes as a general rule that is my experience in a completely different industry other than the binning of tooling isn't always well documented but written permission is normally given although in my case it is fibreglass or vac form moulds rather than injection.

[GWR8700]

I would like for them to bring back the early type of GWR Castle Class that we haven't seen since it was first released.

 

Not necessarily what I hope for (though I do think they would all make great models should Hornby choose to do them) but what I predict is...

LSWR T3

Caledonian 439 Class

GWR Saint Class

LNER Coronation set coaches

Class 195 and 331.

Some other surprises too. Looking forward to it as it always brightens up a miserable month.

[RJEB]

On 06/12/2020 at 12:41, Harlequin said:

In a topic called "2021 Hopes" only @rovex has mentioned the obvious choice:

 

How about a GWR 2021 class 0-6-0 saddle tank - not as later converted to pannier tanks, we've got enough of those!

Surely the perfect loco to release next year!?

 

Domeless with a few variations of cab, bunker and chimney styles, ideally.

 

Hornby have done well with small saddle tank locos recently and this would follow-up that trend with a loco that could find a place in many GWR layouts, ringing the changes a bit from the ubiquitous panniers. (Did any survive into BR ownership in saddle tank form?)

 

Nos 1925 and 2007 lasted until 1951 and 1949, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GWR_850_Class

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

1 hour ago, MGR Hooper! said:

I like a lot of those suggestions for train sets.

However some may be a hit and miss. When it comes to train sets, they need to target two markets i.e. present day and fictional.

Under fictional we usually see the odd 0-4-0 or 0-6-0 with an assortment of wagons. Some are prototypical others are fictional and yet others are based on real companies/railways but the livery, locos and rolling stock are fictional. These sets cater to the new comers mainly. People who usually just want a train set.

Under present day, we usually see something like the GWR HST set or the East Coast Express or any steam loco that is in preservation and running on the mainline hauling scheduled services and excursions. These sets capture a bigger audience. Newcomers, children, grown-ups on a budget, people who just want a prototypical set and so on. Train sets based on what we see today - LNER, GWR, Cross Country, Grand Central etc. or train sets based on steam hauled trains in operation today are more likely to get the attention of children, newcomers and others who see these on a daily basis or a regular basis. I'd love to see train sets based on a LNER, VTEC, Cross Country or Grand Central HST. Maybe even a Network Rail themed one as well. The older Class 91 and Mk4s would make a good LNER themed set.

The only problem I see with having train sets based on the sectorisation and early privatisation era is that it will appeal to a smaller audience with more of a nostalgic connection. I'm not saying that they won't sell, but I feel that something present day is more likely to attract a crowd especially if the sets are sold at the right places. A child is more likely to want a HST he/she can associate with more readily that a Class 37 or Class 47 in a sectorisation livery.

 

There is a way around that though - train packs. An NSE or BR Blue themed train pack with a Class 50 and Mk1 or Mk2 coaches will be a hit amongst the number of people who model the BR Blue period or the NSE. Same goes for an Intercity themed train pack with either with a Class 37 or Class 47 and Mk1 or Mk2 coaches. You could do a Regional Railways train pack. Anything with the Class 31 or Class 50 can be marketed as a full spec Hornby product, the others will be better off as a Hornby Railroad product.

I completely hear what you are saying, but even a reduced length Class 91+MkIV or a Midland Pullman HST is going to come out at £400, which I feel is outside the "give it to a kid to run it at max speed around the living room" market. It's the age old question, is Hornby a toy manufacturer with cross-over into the adult modeller market or the other way 'round!

 

[RJEB]

15 minutes ago, RJEB said:

Nos 1925 and 2007 lasted until 1951 and 1949, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GWR_850_Class

Sorry, forgot to mention 2021 Class 2048 which lasted as a saddle tank until 1952.  See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GWR_2021_Class  

[MGR Hooper!]

Just now, Hilux5972 said:

And occasionally you get one that is both fictional and modern day ie The Hogwarts Express lol. In all seriousness though, it would be great to see Hornby follow what Bachmann does and produce some sets that include a fully detailed loco and 2 coaches, instead of just railroad detail versions. 

Quite right....and Horby can replicate that with their Class 31, Class 50, Class 67 and so on.

[MGR Hooper!]

26 minutes ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

I completely hear what you are saying, but even a reduced length Class 91+MkIV or a Midland Pullman HST is going to come out at £400, which I feel is outside the "give it to a kid to run it at max speed around the living room" market. It's the age old question, is Hornby a toy manufacturer with cross-over into the adult modeller market or the other way 'round!

 

And yes, that's the point of my post. Like the GWR HST set, you can have others, two power cars and a coach or two coaches.

[Downer]

Interesting that this thread is roughly 75-25 diesel/electric over steam when Hornby’s priorities are usually the reverse of that. A sign of the times, perhaps.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Downer

[Dick Turpin]

4 minutes ago, Downer said:

Interesting that this thread is roughly 75-25 diesel/electric over steam when Hornby’s priorities are usually the reverse of that. A sign of the times, perhaps.

 

Nah, it's because we steam era modellers tend to exercise more restraint. 

[Opelsi]

Well Here goes for me. Most of the below have already been mentioned by others. 

 

Hoping / wanting / expecting / predicting, does it matter ~

not worth getting knickers in a twist over:    

 

Pre-grouping:

 

'LION'

Caledonian Cardean

Caledonian 439

Caledonian 6-wheel Brakevan

SECR Birdcage Brakevan

 

Big Four:

 

SR H16 2-6-4T

GWR Great Bear

GWR Toplights (ornate livery)

LMS Big Bertha

LMS Red & Gold Coronation Scot set (largely fictitious livery)

LNER Raven A2

LNER P2 streamlined

LNER Coronation / Silver Jubilee set

Lit Pullman's with Cream Top/Cantrail Banner

 

BR:

 

 

Class 01

Class 06

Class 70

Class 74

Class 80

Class 81-84

Class 123 DMU

Class 252 HST-P

Mk2 Manchester Pullman (reverse Blue-Grey livery)

 

Mesc:

 

Scaledale Buildings

TTS Chips inc. Classes W1 / 25  /  42  / 56 

 

 

If just one or two make it for the above into the Hornby 2021 catalogue (or anyone else's) I'll be a happy bunny!  

 

 

 

[atom3624]

I was going to criticise the idea of this thread - easily get out of control, but Opelsi has listed some very interesting product suggestions.

 

Love the idea of Big Bertha - would like Decapod somewhere as well!!

 

Problem with area-specific one-offs is .... just that - didn't go very far and only one ever produced.

Another I'd love to see is Turbomotive 6202.

 

Interesting to speculate!

 

Al.

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, Downer said:

Interesting that this thread is roughly 75-25 diesel/electric over steam when Hornby’s priorities are usually the reverse of that. A sign of the times, perhaps.

The steam era is finite unless Hornby expand into new areas like narrow gauge, or other scales than OO.

 

Diesel and electric fans get new prototypes and new plastic wallpaper on existing prototypes to clamour for every year....

 

John  

Edited December 12, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[TomScrut]

1 hour ago, MGR Hooper! said:

There is a way around that though - train packs.

 

Yeah it's something that I think could be tapped into a bit more TBH in the modern image at least.

 

I find sometimes they try to make packs too specific to a particular service, for example the Queen of Scots pack. You end up with 3 coaches, i.e. not long enough for a lot of people, with the Queen of Scots wording on them but you are then left with the problem that either to recreate the train properly you have to modify some other coaches, or to use the coaches elsewhere you need to take the branding off. To me they'd be better off supplying say 10 coaches of stickers/whatever and leaving them unbranded.

 

And like with the Belmond Pullman pack (which I have and like very much), the other coaches to make a train of say 6 coaches are like hens teeth and the simplest way to do it is buy the Orient Express box which isn't cheap (and comes with a controller, a load of track and a loco I don't want). The standalone 67 isn't of much appeal to me to run at the other end of 3 coaches either as I think it would look a bit silly! They could have probably done a release of 3 or 4 appropriately named Pullman coaches individually and it would have worked for both buyers of the pack wanting more or others wanting some steel Pullmans for whatever other reason. If I could get 6 coaches I'd have the other 67 too I expect.

 

Also I aren't sure why they started splitting the GWR 800s into ends and coaches making the train more expensive.

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

I completely hear what you are saying, but even a reduced length Class 91+MkIV or a Midland Pullman HST is going to come out at £400, which I feel is outside the "give it to a kid to run it at max speed around the living room" market. It's the age old question, is Hornby a toy manufacturer with cross-over into the adult modeller market or the other way 'round!

 

The way Hornby would like it to be is Railroad for the kids, the rest for adult enthusiasts/modellers, but the border-line is vague, both in product and clientele, so it's not that simple. 

 

John

[scottrains29]

50 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

I find sometimes they try to make packs too specific to a particular service, for example the Queen of Scots pack. You end up with 3 coaches, i.e. not long enough for a lot of people, with the Queen of Scots wording on them but you are then left with the problem that either to recreate the train properly you have to modify some other coaches, or to use the coaches elsewhere you need to take the branding off. To me they'd be better off supplying say 10 coaches of stickers/whatever and leaving them unbranded.

The same is true of the recent Aberdonian train pack with SRPS coaches. They have never produced SRPS coaches before making it difficult to build up a rake. I'm sure producing the coaches on their own would be very popular as the real ones are hauled by both steam and modern diesels.

[The Johnster]

3 hours ago, Dick Turpin said:

 

Nah, it's because we steam era modellers tend to exercise more restraint. 

Ah, restaint; that explains why I bought a Hornby 5101 for no better reason than that a certain Bachmann pannier that I promised Andy I wouldn't mention in this context isn't available just yet! 

 

And why I have 3 times as many locos as I need to run the timetable, using the excuse that they are taken out of service every 10 working days for boiler washouts and need to be replaced with different locos.  Restraint, yeah, right!

 

 

2 hours ago, atom3624 said:

Problem with area-specific one-offs is .... just that - didn't go very far and only one ever produced.

Another I'd love to see is Turbomotive 6202.

 

 

Which has not prevented the P2, 47xx, Adams Radial, Beattie Well tank, prototype Deltic/Lion/Falcon etc and others selling well enough for their various RTR manufacturers.  Big Bertha, Turbomotive, or Kestrel would probably do just as well, but Big Bertha spent her entire life working a 2 mile stretch of railway apart from visits to Derby, half of it light engine tender first, hardly suitable for any layout based anywhere except that 2 miles.

 

Yet large classes, like the LNW coal engines or LMS Austin 7s don't get a look in despite longevity and a wide geographical  spread; surely they must be pivotal to many LMS/LMR layouts.  What about the 116 dmu?  The Taff Vale's Pwllrehebog incline locos were no smaller a class than the Adams Radials or Beattie Wells for most of the existence of those classes.  There were hundreds of indepenent South Wales 0-6-2 tanks, none of which have managed to make the RTR cut, while tiny classes like the 1361 and 1366 have (not Hornbys' fault so OT, I know but the point stands, IMHO).

 

The RTR boys know what we like, and it's pretty tank locos, glamour locos, and bright colours.  We may be adults but few of us can claim to be grown ups.  Personally, all my BR locos have actual prototypes that were at Tondu shed at some time between 1948 and 1958, those being the limits I've set myself.  Except of course they're not. because I've always like the proportions of the BR standard Class 3MT tank and there was one going cheap brand new on a certain auction site, so I invented a barely plausible duty for a Barry loco, which will ultimately also host a Nu-Cast Taff A that I have yet to finish cobbling up.  And the NCB locos are completely fictional, a W4 Peckett and a Triang Dokafority. 

 

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

The way Hornby would like it to be is Railroad for the kids, the rest for adult enthusiasts/modellers, but the border-line is vague, both in product and clientele, so it's not that simple. 

 

 

One of my soap boxes.  I would like to see Railroad given a more robust identity with new toolings specifically for it, low fat versions of the main range.  It has become a repository for locos and stock that should have been retired years ago, and whose presence in the Railroad range is effectively preventing the appearance of new toolings.  New toolings should be able to pay for themselves with increased productivity and efficiency over the older ones, surely; the one that makes Smokey Joe clearly still functions well enough, but that is not to say that a replacement would not be able to produce locos at a lower unit cost, and if those locos had decent size driving wheels and a tolerable slow running performance, serious modellers would buy them, both for Scottish layouts  and as industrial Nielsons.

 

Not gonna happen, though.

[Dunsignalling]

21 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

Ah, restaint; that explains why I bought a Hornby 5101 for no better reason than that a certain Bachmann pannier that I promised Andy I wouldn't mention in this context isn't available just yet! 

 

And why I have 3 times as many locos as I need to run the timetable, using the excuse that they are taken out of service every 10 working days for boiler washouts and need to be replaced with different locos.  Restraint, yeah, right!

 

 

 

Which has not prevented the P2, 47xx, Adams Radial, Beattie Well tank, prototype Deltic/Lion/Falcon etc and others selling well enough for their various RTR manufacturers.  Big Bertha, Turbomotive, or Kestrel would probably do just as well, but Big Bertha spent her entire life working a 2 mile stretch of railway apart from visits to Derby, half of it light engine tender first, hardly suitable for any layout based anywhere except that 2 miles.

 

Yet large classes, like the LNW coal engines or LMS Austin 7s don't get a look in despite longevity and a wide geographical  spread; surely they must be pivotal to many LMS/LMR layouts.  What about the 116 dmu?  The Taff Vale's Pwllrehebog incline locos were no smaller a class than the Adams Radials or Beattie Wells for most of the existence of those classes.  There were hundreds of indepenent South Wales 0-6-2 tanks, none of which have managed to make the RTR cut, while tiny classes like the 1361 and 1366 have (not Hornbys' fault so OT, I know but the point stands, IMHO).

 

The RTR boys know what we like, and it's pretty tank locos, glamour locos, and bright colours.  We may be adults but few of us can claim to be grown ups.  Personally, all my BR locos have actual prototypes that were at Tondu shed at some time between 1948 and 1958, those being the limits I've set myself.  Except of course they're not. because I've always like the proportions of the BR standard Class 3MT tank and there was one going cheap brand new on a certain auction site, so I invented a barely plausible duty for a Barry loco, which will ultimately also host a Nu-Cast Taff A that I have yet to finish cobbling up.  And the NCB locos are completely fictional, a W4 Peckett and a Triang Dokafority. 

 

 

One of my soap boxes.  I would like to see Railroad given a more robust identity with new toolings specifically for it, low fat versions of the main range.  It has become a repository for locos and stock that should have been retired years ago, and whose presence in the Railroad range is effectively preventing the appearance of new toolings.  New toolings should be able to pay for themselves with increased productivity and efficiency over the older ones, surely; the one that makes Smokey Joe clearly still functions well enough, but that is not to say that a replacement would not be able to produce locos at a lower unit cost, and if those locos had decent size driving wheels and a tolerable slow running performance, serious modellers would buy them, both for Scottish layouts  and as industrial Nielsons.

 

Not gonna happen, though.

 

Problem is, resourcing all-new Railroad would reduce the capacity available for the good stuff.

 

Hornby REALLY need to decide which side of the fence they want to land on when they finally fall off it.

 

With all the new entrants and commissioners getting into the quality end of the market, maybe they SHOULD concentrate on the toys for kids.

 

John

Edited December 12, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[MGR Hooper!]

3 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

Yeah it's something that I think could be tapped into a bit more TBH in the modern image at least.

 

I find sometimes they try to make packs too specific to a particular service, for example the Queen of Scots pack. You end up with 3 coaches, i.e. not long enough for a lot of people, with the Queen of Scots wording on them but you are then left with the problem that either to recreate the train properly you have to modify some other coaches, or to use the coaches elsewhere you need to take the branding off. To me they'd be better off supplying say 10 coaches of stickers/whatever and leaving them unbranded.

 

And like with the Belmond Pullman pack (which I have and like very much), the other coaches to make a train of say 6 coaches are like hens teeth and the simplest way to do it is buy the Orient Express box which isn't cheap (and comes with a controller, a load of track and a loco I don't want). The standalone 67 isn't of much appeal to me to run at the other end of 3 coaches either as I think it would look a bit silly! They could have probably done a release of 3 or 4 appropriately named Pullman coaches individually and it would have worked for both buyers of the pack wanting more or others wanting some steel Pullmans for whatever other reason. If I could get 6 coaches I'd have the other 67 too I expect.

 

Also I aren't sure why they started splitting the GWR 800s into ends and coaches making the train more expensive.

That is an issue I've always had with Hornby, train packs but lack of extra coaches and wagons to go along with them. You've already given classic examples of this. And what does bother me is that it's quite easy to do coach packs with 3-4 extra coaches and the name boards could be in the accessory bag. That way people who want to build up the rake have them and other can still make use of Pullman or LNER coaches.

[wombatofludham]

One area Hornby are being left behind in is the "heritage" DMU market.  With Heljan having picked off the 104, which to be honest I'd have had marked up as a Hornby toe-in-the-water headliner (similar to their existing 110, and of course Triang did a 3mm version once), unless Hornby have a spoiler lined up ready to snatch the market a la "Terriergate", I wonder if they might try and break into the market with that perennial wishlist star, the Class 120?  Or, thinking a bit left field, given what they did with the Mk2f, perhaps take on Bachmann with a Class 116?  Whilst their existing range of ex-Lima and 1980s models clearly sell, Bachmann's sweeping up of the grown up market for detailed heritage DMUs without at least an incoming volley from Kent is odd, and makes me wonder if they have been working on something and are going to try and grab a slice of the action.

So, I think a 120 with a slight outside runner in the shape of a 116.  Except, of course, neither are steam, so that makes either highly unlikely.

[Railway_Central]

I would really like to see...
 

GWR Saint Class as a 460 and 442 this would tie in with the Lady of Legend rebuild. 
 

Midland Railway Class 3 440 with 80 built 1900-1905 which lasted until 1953. 

 

LT&SR  Class 79 442T built 1909-1930. Famous loco from railway round about series. 

 

GWR Toplights in the Edwardian livery. These would be exquisite and could be utilised on inter-regional services. 
 

NER Raven Pacific 462 to complete the Pacific collection. 

 

GNR N1 062T built from 1907 and lasted in service until 1959 

 

NBR Glen Class 460 built 1913-1920 and withdrawn 1961

 

Teak Quad Arts. 
 

Most of these lasted into B.R ownership.

 

 

 

 

[Neil]

New, better starter 0-4-0 tank and/or diesel. With the rate at which the pound is falling against the dollar it may be all we can afford next year.

 

[TravisM]

Regarding loco’s, mainline steam is now fading into memory and I’m now in my 60’s and I can only recall steam on one occasion.  Everyday mainline workings of Warships, Westerns, Hymek’s and Deltic’s again are fading from memory, so today’s youngsters and modellers will want to see more Class 66’s, 68’s, 70’s and maybe 88’s as they’re current.

 

I’d like to see more Mk1 vehicles that have never been done, though the list is probably not very big. I believe that several buffet and restaurant car types are missing.  Also missing and probably high on a lot of people’s wish list are the 1951 Pullman cars as well as the Mk2 Pullman’s.

 

I agree about the Class 116 and 120 as well as 119 DMU’s but I have a feeling there probably more on Bachmann’s radar.  Also is the big gap of the Class 123 Inter-City and 124 Trans-Pennine sets, again probably on Bachmann’s radar.