Killinish Pier - oo gauge late 19th Century Scottish

[ManofKent]

My first layout in 35 years.

 

Provisionally titled Killinish Pier as it's based on Loch Tay on the Killin Railway, although I'm not aiming for an accurate scale replica of the the terminus and pier as I don't have the space, and half the layout would be water...

 

I've put plenty of research time in (a few of the resources attached).

 

I'm going with a lazer cut 900 x 400mm kit baseboard that I can just squeeze into my home office (must not get distracted when in Teams Meetings) so a bit  too small to be ideal, but hopefully big enough to create a feel of the place.

 

 

[apbolton]

The Killin Branch was featured on this weeks Railway Walks with Rob Bell if you didn't see it. 

Looking forward to seeing it develop.

[ManofKent]

I'm hoping the baseboard arrives before Christmas - there seems to be quite a back log. I did consider building my own, but my woodwork skills aren't great and not having a garage or shed it would be constructing outside (I'm not brave enough to use the dining room as a work area).

 

I'm not fully settled on the track plan - Loch Tay has a very short passing loop and in the early days there was a turn off to a another very short loop (so short a  few wagons would foul the points) that leads down to a short wooden pier with crane and loading shute for the steamers.  There is a 1908 map of the line that's been widely reproduced, but in reality it's more of a sketch (the NLS allows maps to be overlaid with current satellite photos and it doesn't match very closely...). I did get excited by a couple of plans in black issues of old modelling magazines, until I realised that one of them showed a siding that couldn't exist behind the shed and another had mistaken the map's depiction of a fence for an additional siding.

 

I've played around in AnyRail and got three possibilities but until I get the baseboard I'm not sure whether the preferred one is too cramped.  

[ManofKent]

9 minutes ago, apbolton said:

The Killin Branch was featured on this weeks Railway Walks with Rob Bell if you didn't see it. 

Looking forward to seeing it develop.

 

Thanks - it's on my to watch list. Whilst it's obviously more wooded than in the 19th Century it will be good to get a better idea of the flora for the scenic side - mainly Birch trees is my best guess.

[Karl]

Will watch this with interest!

[ManofKent]

Whilst awaiting the baseboard I've made a start on the few buildings. The period shot of the station (I'm only aware of the one that shows the station pre-grouping https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/loch-taykillin-pier-station-caledonian-railway-scotland-c-1886-picture-id90746779?s=2048x2048)  also shows a small shed of unknown usage and what was presumably the goods store. Both buildings appear to be wood with wooden shingle roofs. On the grounds that the last time I built a model building was 35 odd years ago (a Linka engine shed) and that these didn't need to be as precise as the station I did these first.

 

After playing with plasticard and deciding I didn't like it I went with the wood option. To make life easier I picked up a couple of very cheap and rather undetailed mdf kits to act as a carcass. The small shed didn't need much modification beyond the small window adding, but the longer shed had a window blocked up, doors adding, and was built inside out after priming, scoring planking on the interior. These were then clad with the smallest stripwood I could find, washed down with sepia Indian ink and the coloured and weather with soft pastels.   I decided they needed sealing and made the mistake on the small shed of using spray matt varnish -  hairspray worked much better on the larger shed, I'll add a bit more weathering and deal with the odd shiny patch when in situ. Reasonably happy for first attempts. Apologies for distortion from using phone camera - they are pretty square in real life ;-) :

[ikcdab]

On 05/12/2020 at 19:23, ManofKent said:

  There is a 1908 map of the line that's been widely reproduced, but in reality it's more of a sketch (the NLS allows maps to be overlaid with current satellite photos and it doesn't match very closely...). I did get excited by a couple of plans in black issues of old modelling magazines, until I realised that one of them showed a siding that couldn't exist behind the shed and another had mistaken the map's depiction of a fence for 

I'm not sure exactly why you think the OS map is sketchy. Indeed, there are very few common  features when overlaid on the NLS satellite imagery, but it was 110 years ago. The coastline is a reasonable match. I think that Victorian surveyors were very good at positioning things on large scale maps and I think you can be reasonably confident  in their accuracy. In a past life I had to work with large scale Irish mapping of a similar vintage. It matched very well with modern surveys. The advantage we have today is we have far more data and can process it much more quickly. I think that if you use the 1908 Killin Pier map, you will be pretty close.

Your buildings are excellent by the way! 

If I was doing this , becauase it is such a petite layout, I would be tempted to hand build the track, or at least hand build the pointwork and use flexi for the plain line. If so, I would look at templot for planning. 

Your concept has great potential, I look forward to developments!

Ian

[john new]

Changes for digital mapping - I have mentioned this elsewhere in other threads as it doesn't appear to be widely appreciated. There was some distortion in older mapping as the maps represent a flattened earth with the latitude and longitude lines of the National Grid made parallel whereas in reality the world is a globe. It didn't matter too much until the advent of GPS, GIS and digital mapping etc., but then the sheet edge match fudging and other discrepancies came to greater prominence. The OS and allied agencies spent a great deal of time and money sorting it all out and rolling out new versions. Add that into the on-the ground real world changes over a century and mismatches will be visible.

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by john new
Added an omitted word

[ManofKent]

1 hour ago, ikcdab said:

I'm not sure exactly why you think the OS map is sketchy. Indeed, there are very few common  features when overlaid on the NLS satellite imagery, but it was 110 years ago. The coastline is a reasonable match. I think that Victorian surveyors were very good at positioning things on large scale maps and I think you can be reasonably confident  in their accuracy. In a past life I had to work with large scale Irish mapping of a similar vintage. It matched very well with modern surveys. The advantage we have today is we have far more data and can process it much more quickly. I think that if you use the 1908 Killin Pier map, you will be pretty close.

Your buildings are excellent by the way! 

If I was doing this , becauase it is such a petite layout, I would be tempted to hand build the track, or at least hand build the pointwork and use flexi for the plain line. If so, I would look at templot for planning. 

Your concept has great potential, I look forward to developments!

Ian

 

Thanks - the OS Map isn't bad in terms of overall proportions, and only about 20 odd metres out of reality based on lining up shared buildings, which given  the  date is pretty impressive, but the details are a little suspect when compared to the few contemporary photos that exist, and written records - the passing loop in front of the station is shown as a double track siding to the shed, and the pier siding is shown as a single run, when it too had a short passing loop.  I think it's partially a question of scale. It's useful as a general guide, and I'm going to use modeller's license in terms of compression anyway.

 

I hadn't thought about hand built pointwork - I'd assumed my skills probably weren't up to it, but it's something I ought to look into.

 

 

[Sweet pea]

Nice work on modelling the buildings.

[ManofKent]

1 hour ago, Kevin Johnson said:

Nice work on modelling the buildings.

Thanks - I'm happier with the larger one, and I can always re-do and replace the smaller one fairly easily. The station will need to be a little neater, but hopefully the experience of the last two will help. I've got a few off cuts of 0.3m birch ply that I'll probably use as a base for stripwood, and ratio signal box windows look a reasonable match for the windows. I've treated myself to a NorthWest Shortline Chopper for cutting the stripwood - cutting identical lengths with a knife was difficult and time consuming.

[sb67]

I watched Railway Walks this week and was intrigued by the Killin branch. 

I'll be following this thread with interest, the building look good, nice start 

[martin_wynne]

2 hours ago, john new said:

Changes for digital mapping - I have mentioned this elsewhere in other threads as it doesn't appear to be widely appreciated. There was some distortion in older mapping as the maps represent a flattened earth with the latitude and longitude lines of the National Grid made parallel whereas in reality the world is a globe. It didn't matter too much until the advent of GPS, GIS and digital mapping etc., but then the sheet edge match fudging and other discrepancies came to greater prominence. The OS and allied agencies spent a great deal of time and money sorting it all out and rolling out new versions. Add that into the on-the ground real world changes over a century and mismatches will be visible.

 

 

Hi John,

 

The NLS have resampled the historic maps to make a single slippy map georeferenced to modern online mapping. See the "georeferenced" maps on the NLS web site. Here is Killin Pier georeferenced:

 

 https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=19&lat=56.48017&lon=-4.30181&layers=168&b=1

 

Drag the blue dot slider to cross-fade to modern aerial imagery.

 

The original scanned map sheet (un-georeferenced) is here:

 

 https://maps.nls.uk/view/82898586#zoom=4&lat=5814&lon=9910&layers=BT

 

Templot can capture these historic maps from the NLS and automatically scale them to match your model scale, as a background guide to track planning.

 

Martin.

[ManofKent]

1 hour ago, sb67 said:

I watched Railway Walks this week and was intrigued by the Killin branch. 

I'll be following this thread with interest, the building look good, nice start 

Colin Hogarth's book on the line is worth a read. I love the spirit behind the construction, although it probably made the average Col Stevens line seem like a professionally run and financially robust railway.

[eastworld]

I like the name Killinish - it actually sounds authentic.

 

Stu

[SZ]

On 05/12/2020 at 19:04, ManofKent said:

Provisionally titled Killinish Pier as it's based on Loch Tay on the Killin Railway, although I'm not aiming for an accurate scale replica of the the terminus and pier as I don't have the space, and half the layout would be water...

 

 

IG Holt/Model Railway Constructor, March 1976

 

(from an article on a layout based on Loch Tay)

Edited December 7, 2020 by SZ

[ManofKent]

11 minutes ago, SZ said:

 

 

 

IG Holt/Model Railway Constructor, March 1976

Thanks - just ordered a copy of the dodgy auction site

[JohnR]

On 07/12/2020 at 13:04, sb67 said:

I watched Railway Walks this week and was intrigued by the Killin branch. 

I'll be following this thread with interest, the building look good, nice start 

 

That, and this thread has inspired me to do something similar. Its so tempting!

[ManofKent]

3 hours ago, JohnR said:

 

That, and this thread has inspired me to do something similar. Its so tempting!

Killin Station would make a nice small layout too - flatter scenic wise, but you get a small goods yard and if operation is your thing, gradient shunting too. An early concrete viaduct, a nice girder bridge, and Killin Junction if you fancy mainline services - the 5 mile line has a lot of modelling potential.

[Sweet pea]

Hi I’m so looking forward to following this build. The Killin station intrigued me when watching the tv.

[ManofKent]

Not a lot of progress this week due to work 

 

Had a play at creating one panel of the station using strip wood on thin ply and it worked okay. The framing is tricky - trying to decide whether to intersperse the 1mm square strips with 1x1.5mm strips or to overlay the framing and sand it back. The latter is less fiddly... The comes the decision as to whether to leave unpainted (the only Caley period photo shows it in this state), or to assume that like Killin it was eventually painted in Gamboge (a yellow/stone colour not cream) and Purple/brown...

 

Track wise I think I've settled on using Peco Streamline - I seriously considered hand building, but cost and skill are an issue, and (apologies to those easily upset) unless I went P4, a lot of handmade track emphasises the narrow gauge nature of OO...

[ManofKent]

Baseboard kit has arrived in time for Christmas so hopefully more progress over next few days. I've just got the problem that the baseboard needs to go on the drawers I'm currently using as a workbench...

[Woody C]

Hello,

Not sure of you have ever seen this video on YouTube but it is worth a look. If you want to skip the first part go to about 4m 15s into it for some interesting views of Killin station. Found the whole video fascinating and it is worth a watch just for the social history. Hope you find it useful - 

Woody.

[ManofKent]

40 minutes ago, Woody C said:

Hello,

Not sure of you have ever seen this video on YouTube but it is worth a look. If you want to skip the first part go to about 4m 15s into it for some interesting views of Killin station. Found the whole video fascinating and it is worth a watch just for the social history. Hope you find it useful - 

Woody.

Thanks - yes I tracked down both parts of that documentary. Way after the period I'm modelling, but a fascinating piece of social history throughout. I can't remember which part it was in, but the dockyard scenes were wonderful to see too.

[ManofKent]

Grainge & Hodder baseboard now assembled and drying. Hopefully I'll be able to rough out the track plan tomorrow. I'm planning on having the track running on extruded foam (blue foam that's now black) - cutting away at the front for the Loch edge and pier, then using the off cuts to form the hills behind the line. I'm assuming laying track on foam doesn't cause issues - it feels fairly dense... Or should I lay ply on top of the foam?