Guest Jack Benson Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 Elsewhere, progress on a Triang upgrade is at a standstill whilst waiting for a response from a manufacturer, in the meantime there is an opportunity to think about an alternative to the worn-out 60 year old X04. In the ‘rainy day’ draw there is an unused MRRC 5-pole, the original gearset is all brass and nicely run-in after a life time of whizzing around and whilst nowhere as smooth as a High Level set-up it is actually available and the combination of 5-pole plus DCC must be an improvement? The only problem is removing the worm from the worn-out X04, any suggestions? Finally, is my memory failing but were there ‘drop-in’ upgrades to replace the XO4 in the dim and distant past based on can motors? Thank you and Stay Safe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 You can buy pullers to pull off the X04 worm. ECM did drop in can motors. Or there were motor mound to fit different styles of motors. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 Even Hornby did drop-in can motors - from the Scalextric range of the time, also the Polly/Smokey Joe loco. There was a plastic cradle that held the can in the X04 slot. And the TT gears doubled the gear ratio. There are also replacement gears availailable from other suppliers (even today). A worn-out X04 though - they are everlasting! Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jack Benson Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 Guys, I searched and found this Informative thread which does make a good case for retaining the X04 or at least replacing my worn-out motor with another X04 fitted with a NEO magnet. This raises the question of how/where to obtain Triang TT gears in order to double the ratio, I have no idea about this. Not too bothered about protruding magnets into cabs, it would have nice to fit a decent backhead but I don’t actually want to go too far in upgrading the L1, if I can re-use bits of the original drive with new Markit wheels and a cosmetically improved body, then that is OK. Thanks and Stay Safe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 Why replace the magnet - a remag is simpler and effective. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jack Benson Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 (edited) Sir, I had a new NEO magnet but no remagnetising facility Thank you Edited January 3, 2021 by Jack Benson Text update Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 Fair comment, but I come from the other side! I still have my old remagnetiser from servicing days, and in fact have done free re-mags for RMWebbers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 13 hours ago, stewartingram said: Fair comment, but I come from the other side! I still have my old remagnetiser from servicing days, and in fact have done free re-mags for RMWebbers. Someone actually makes a replacement neo magnet rather than just adding a couple of smaller ones piggy back Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted January 4, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 4, 2021 I'll just leave this here: http://redgatemodels.co.uk/?page_id=100 I do remags too, or can fit neo magnets if required Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jack Benson Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Hi, I had hoped for a response about obtaining a two start Triang worm or maybe I need to search for Triang TT gears or maybe not? The first choice was another High Level set-up of RRC plus the High Level coreless or CCT’s Mitsumi but without a response, the fallback will be to recycle the nicely run-in all brass motordrive with our refurbished X04. Stewart Hine was a fan of a nicely set-up X04 and a good decoder should be able to control the old Triang L1 as it plods around the layout with the exExeter non-stop service. Cheers and Stay Safe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 I'm hopefully going up in the loft tomorrow, I'll have a peek for the old service sheets if I do. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Izzy Posted January 4, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2021 Bit puzzled by the two start worm ref. Using one would halve the gear ratio rather than double it, and then only work if the helix angles matched the worm wheel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Izzy said: Bit puzzled by the two start worm ref. Using one would halve the gear ratio rather than double it, and then only work if the helix angles matched the worm wheel. That is certainly true but there's a trade-off (as usual). The greater the reduction ratio the more the loss to friction. The old Tri-ang two-start worms are actually fairly efficient and work well with large diameter, high torque, slow, motors. A large ratio worm reduction (like 60:1) soaks up a lot of the torque from a motor before it even gets to the wheels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 I just did some Googling for "Triang Rocket service sheet" which took me within this site: Hornby Railways Collector Guide Homepage - UK, Australian & Canadian (hornbyguide.com) All the sheets are there. Rocket chassis, Rocket motor, TT service sheets for the various chassis (all seem to use the same gearing, which might not be the same as Rocket, I didn't look too closely at that one). Getting those part numbers might assist you in tracing available spares, don't forget to try ebay as well. If you go to Ultrascale website, https://ultrascale.uk/eshop/products/CAT015#WWGS4 then go down to Worm and Wheel gear sets (0.4 MOD), you will find a listing for a 40:1 replacement set for Triang axle/X04 - this has a RED "THSL" marked next to it. They are the ones I have previously used. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jack Benson Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Stewart, Do you use the 40:1 gearset with the boss type 2 or the type 1 And thank you Stay safe in 2021 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Wow, so long ago now, not even sure I've still got them (and it is too cold to go out to the man cave tonight!). Edit that: I've just looked on the website, it is the 9th in the list, suffix THSL, 40:1 shown as a type 1. Gear type 1 with a 9/64" bore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 (edited) They're not very difficult to make. If you have a friend with a small lathe they could probably crank one out. The trick is to make several on one piece of brass then slice it into individual worms. I could make one for you but it would get stuck in the mail for a long time. Edited January 4, 2021 by AndyID Gramer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 Warming the worm makes removal easier on the XO4. Try not to set the lubricating felt on fire. Don't try warming the worm on the Airfix 5pole as used on the Prairie as the end frame s plastic and melts into a blob before the worm comes loose. The Airfix 5 pole XO4 replacement is a bit of a gutless wonder so I would stick a new Super Neo magnet in, even if it has a good magnet, you can always re use it in a pole. The 3 pole is too harsh in my experience with the Proprietary Super neo replacement magnet but work well with a stack of smaller super neos. it also frees up space in the cab on some locos. I rob old Disc drives for them. I find putting shims each side of the worm wheel to limit side play to a few thou improves running, especially starting. The Triang single start worm is designed for the TT worm wheels which looks like it has a "Flatter" angle to the teeth than the similar size "Polly" and Dock shunter / Transcon gear. I have seen these TT worms worn to an hour glass shape blob so maybe they were of softer brass than the OO ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsmb Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 I can confirm stewart does remagnestising, he did a load of lima locos for me and also silver seal tender drives, excellent service, like he says no need to replace magnet just give it a remag sorted. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
locomad2 Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 I've a fair collection of X04 motors powering quite a range of triang and early Hornby chassis some are now 60 years old and given excellent service. I found it to an excellent motor if serviced ie oil, clean etc and only once remagistered a 2nd hand motor, I suspect magnet removed, easy done and reduced amps power. The original magnet last better than the Hornby dublo types. The only issue I have found is a supply of orginial brushes 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurenceb Posted February 9, 2021 Share Posted February 9, 2021 The late Stewart Hine described the X04 as the old dependable 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 On 09/02/2021 at 01:15, laurenceb said: The late Stewart Hine described the X04 as the old dependable Whoever was responsible for the design did an excellent job. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pebbles Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 My wife's goddaughter's uncle - from Thanet- claims that his father was responsible for the XO4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted February 16, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2021 Someone oh here did mention the original X04 was the focus mechanism on RAF cameras. Might be Bertiedog in the parish here. A 38-40-1 ratio is widely available, and whichever bore size you require. Guy Williams (Pendon Museum ) spoke highly of the X04. The Airfix MRRC 1001 was a straight-swop option. You can still find them at auction, but silly money sometimes. At these rates, it's not long before a manufacturer makes a cheap knock-off copy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 1 hour ago, tomparryharry said: At these rates, it's not long before a manufacturer makes a cheap knock-off copy. Hornby did make a cheap version for the older B12 loco, available as a spare for a long time, actually runs rather well. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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