Guest Jack Benson Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 I have been asked for a ‘book on metal wagon kits’, to be given as a retirement present. all I can find are the MORILL Iain Rice books, neither of which mention metal. Any suggestions, please? StaySafe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 I'm pretty sure the Geoff Kent books feature some metal kits. https://www.titfield.co.uk/Wild-Swan/Model-Wagons.htm But I would assume that someone who is building wagon kits would already have them. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jack Benson Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 Hi and thanks Jason, I have the relevant volume but not over impressed, hence the request. However, this has just appeared on our group’s FB page Iain Rice Missenden tutorial Never encountered this particular website until now, it seems very interesting. StaySafe Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mick Bonwick Posted April 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 21, 2021 39 minutes ago, Jack Benson said: Never encountered this particular website until now, it seems very interesting. But it's not just a website. It's a whole way of life! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mick Bonwick Posted April 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 21, 2021 There's no better place to look than this: https://www.titfield.co.uk/Books/Model-Techniques-Construction.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 (edited) Hmmm, I cannot honestly think of a book dedicated to metal wagons. Rice has done books on most aspects of modelling; plastic wagons, plastic locos, whitemetal locos and brass locos. His Etched Brass Chassis Construction is well worth having. I think Geoff Kent's 3 volume set on 4mm Wagons is very good. However, IIRC, all the subjects are plastic. In general, you cannot beat the Wild Swan range of modelling books. Trouble is, by now, most are out of print so you need to hunt them down. Wagons tend not be very complicated, I think if you are comfortable soldering (I assume you mean etched brass/NS), you should be able to build one into a pleasing model. John Edited April 21, 2021 by brossard 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mike Bellamy Posted April 22, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 22, 2021 Crowood Press have a couple of books about wagons - but they cover plastic, whitemetal and brass. https://www.crowood.com/details.asp?isbn=9781847979834&t=Building-00-Gauge-Wagons-and-Vans-for-Model-Railways https://www.crowood.com/details.asp?isbn=9781847974846&t=Kit-Building-for-Railway-Modellers:-Volume-1---Rolling-Stock . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 10 hours ago, brossard said: I think Geoff Kent's 3 volume set on 4mm Wagons is very good. However, IIRC, all the subjects are plastic. Mostly plastic - there's the odd whitemetal and etched kits in there. I certainly remember copying his build of an ABS whitemetal open. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 3 hours ago, Mike Bellamy said: Crowood Press have a couple of books about wagons - but they cover plastic, whitemetal and brass. https://www.crowood.com/details.asp?isbn=9781847979834&t=Building-00-Gauge-Wagons-and-Vans-for-Model-Railways https://www.crowood.com/details.asp?isbn=9781847974846&t=Kit-Building-for-Railway-Modellers:-Volume-1---Rolling-Stock . You should be able to find both for well under a tenner. About their worth TBH. Very basic and the George Dent one, which is the better of the two, is more or less rehashes of articles from magazines. If you look at the "Take A Look Inside" on Amazon then it shows you what they are like. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kit-Building-Railway-Modellers-Rolling/dp/1847974848 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Building-Gauge-Wagons-Model-Railways/dp/1847979831/ref=rtpb_8?pd_rd_w=Brxtc&pf_rd_p=5a5e3976-5d4e-46fd-b875-6aae78355b0a&pf_rd_r=KDXTSPSTFE9XEVBAM8WS&pd_rd_r=0cf02208-ff02-485e-b832-58ada6841321&pd_rd_wg=Xg4fS&pd_rd_i=1847979831&psc=1 So worth picking up if you are a beginner or returner, but look around as the market is full of them at reasonable prices. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 5 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said: Mostly plastic - there's the odd whitemetal and etched kits in there. I certainly remember copying his build of an ABS whitemetal open. OK Pete, memory faulty as usual. I also built an 0 gauge ABS whitemetal GWR open wagon. Excellent castings and the result was very pleasing. I cheated and used CA glue though. Not something I would buy but I was given the kit FOC at a show. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium ColinK Posted April 22, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 22, 2021 Connoisseur Models produce a booklet on building 0 gauge etched kits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 Just been through the Connoisseur site, I think this is the booklet: http://www.jimmcgeown.com/Print Off FAQ Booklet pdf.pdf I've been thinking, just what should a book on metal wagon building contain? Obviously it would ideally provide instuctions on soldering (but as I have learned, everyone seems to have their individual take on this). Other than the means of joining parts, metal wagon kits aren't really any different from plastic wagon kits (and I have built dozens of both media). What I think is needed are tips for getting those finer details on the model. Kits will get you something recognizable but don't always include all the finer details, particularly if you are making a model of a specific wagon. Or you might want to modify the wagon into another diagram. Geoff Kent's 4mm wagon books are a case in point. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 17 minutes ago, ColinK said: Connoisseur Models produce a booklet on building 0 gauge etched kits. Also worth looking at the instructions by Jim and others. Often found on the manufacturers website. http://www.jimmcgeown.com/ As an aside every time I look at that website I get tempted by the big stuff.... Another book worth a look at. Cheap as chips as well. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Locomotive-Rolling-stock-Construction-Library-Modelling/dp/1857940385 Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 Jim's kits are excellent. I built his NBR goods brake for a friend. Most enjoyable. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 1 hour ago, brossard said: OK Pete, memory faulty as usual. I also built an 0 gauge ABS whitemetal GWR open wagon. Excellent castings and the result was very pleasing. I cheated and used CA glue though. Not something I would buy but I was given the kit FOC at a show. John Yes, ABS kits were always really good and a pleasure to assemble. I hope they resurface. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 Agree, let's hope someone takes them on. Hope whoever does keeps up the quality. Adrian was a stickler for detail and his rants about the shortcomings of various RTR models are legendary. John 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 2 hours ago, brossard said: Jim's kits are excellent. I built his NBR goods brake for a friend. Most enjoyable. John Yep. The first proper etched kit I built was the Jinty. Must finish it one day.... To be honest it's only minor things that need doing and as I haven't got a layout for it at the moment it's not a priority. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 (edited) I'm steering away from loco kits for now, until I get my layout going - TBF it is in a running and operable state, just have to start the painting of track etc. I did buy a second hand Slaters 1F kit but nothing happening right now. I have plenty of locos to be going on with - and loads of wagons. The Jinty is one of faves. I have the Dapol Jinty with sound, what a superb model! John Edited April 22, 2021 by brossard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted April 23, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 23, 2021 For a retirement present, I doubt even a second-hand book would be appropriate, let alone a set of photocopied kit instructions! How about a 25 W Antex soldering iron, some 145 degree solder, flux, and a simple brass wagon kit? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 Jack Perhaps one of Iain's books on loco building (Whitemetal and or etched) could be a source of useful info in conjunction with one of the wagon books (if they concentrate on plastic wagons), the techniques used to build a loco body is much the same as a wagon body, using the wagon book for undreframes, details and painting Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Compound2632 said: For a retirement present, I doubt even a second-hand book would be appropriate, let alone a set of photocopied kit instructions! How about a 25 W Antex soldering iron, some 145 degree solder, flux, and a simple brass wagon kit? Yeah. More pointing out that there isn't a specific book for metal wagon kits AFAIK, they're more generic using a myriad of materials and some books are better than others. But also that if you were building a metal wagon kit then the provided instructions are usually adequate for someone who is a bit more experienced, and very few of us are going to suddenly dive straight into building metal wagon kits without having built a few plastic ones before hand. Just that the techniques used to stick them together is different. Here's the instructions for a recent 51L wagon kit. Not that much more difficult than building a Parkside kit. https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/gcrd021.pdf Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted April 23, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Steamport Southport said: Yeah. More pointing out that there isn't a specific book for metal wagon kits AFAIK, they're more generic using a myriad of materials and some books are better than others. But also that if you were building a metal wagon kit then the provided instructions are usually adequate for someone who is a bit more experienced, and very few of us are going to suddenly dive straight into building metal wagon kits without having built a few plastic ones before hand. Just that the techniques used to stick them together is different. Here's the instructions for a recent 51L wagon kit. Not that much more difficult than building a Parkside kit. Yes, which is why I didn't suggest a 50W temperature-controlled iron, 100 degree solder, and a simple whitemetal kit. In my experience, having made the progression plastic -> brass -> whitemetal, the challenges of successful whitemetal soldering are greater than those of brass, though it does open up a greater range of kits. A snag with the "classic" wagon kit building books is that they don't cover more recent techniques such as resin and 3D printing. It would be useful to know what period the recipient would be modelling, as that would have a bearing on the techniques needed - the more esoteric materials being more commonly encountered in pre-grouping wagon building, whereas, I believe, for the 1950s, pretty much all the basic wagon types one could want are available as plastic kits, thanks chiefly to Parkside and Cambrian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 The George Dent one covers resin and 3D. It's probably the most "recent" and up to date of them all. Just that I felt that and the Tisdale book were a bit more aimed at beginners and if you buy the magazine it is of a similar style to an average article on kit building that you get every couple of months. The "build your first Parkside kit" type of article. Not a criticism of the books or writers, just that I feel that if someone is looking at building metal kits they might find them a bit basic. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted April 23, 2021 Share Posted April 23, 2021 Mention of modern wagons. Model Railway Handbook No.10: Thoroughly Modern Models 2 - Modern Wagons in 4mm by Nigel Burkin https://www.irwellpress.com/acatalog/MODELLING.html Building Modern 4mm Scale Wagons also Burkin https://www.amazon.co.uk/Building-Modern-4mm-Scale-Wagons/dp/190729211X/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&keywords=modern+wagons&qid=1619177564&sr=8-4 Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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