New hst

[adb968008]

3 hours ago, Bob83a said:

At about 16:55 in the latest edition of the Hornby A Model World (no 9) on the table when discussing the P2 CAD is what appears to be a class 43 power car. I cannot see the bogie mounted tension lock coupling but the bogie does seemed to be slightly turned away. There is a name plate with a red background and a logo of some sort above it but I cannot read it.

 

Is this possibly a new version or possibly the class 43 DVT for the Mk4 sets

Its 43102 city of edinburgh from R3944…

 

spot the competition though…its a class 411 CEP, in a later shot you can see an NSE VEP dismantled too, mind boggles.

(i also see huge amounts of Haribos in that office).

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by adb968008

[fiftyfour fiftyfour]

22 hours ago, Patriot87003 said:

For my sins … I used to be a gauging engineer for a few years!

 

Just seeing the Sectional Appendix, the Class 43 Power Cars are still not allowed / not route cleared along the GEML to Norwich. However, thanks for the info about the Class 43 Power Cars having made it to Norwich during 2011 … I’ve  had a Google and seen a clip on YouTube of the power cars at Norwich, also a pic of Flickr of them at Ipswich.

 

It therefore looks like one possibility is that the visit during 2011 was a special run/jolly for the PC’s, perhaps with a special temporary route clearance certificate. These often include a long list of restrictions such as speed restrictions past tight clearance locations, platforms/line that are prohibited (weaving/special pathing required) such as where platform coping stones/edges are tight or high, or even adjacent line blocks (to prevent another train passing if passing clearances are tight).

 

Certain bits and bobs attached to the bogies of the Power Cars do require additional clearances compared to other vehicles. Regarding the Mk3’s, only modified Mk3’s (and modified Mk3 DVT’s) are currently route cleared along the GEML; the mod being those fitted with a centre pivot lateral bump stop (to reduce the amount of lateral movement).

 

So it’s not just NR changing their mind or the asset condition/size changing … vehicles can also be modified and change! 

 

 

You'd have needed some medical aid on 15/06/1996 then- a full and not in any way modified 2+8 HST set ran the whole route from Stratford to Norwich fully laden with punters on a special from Plymouth operated by Hertfordshire Railtours and powered by 43022+43187! Or on 29/06/1997 when 43012+43185, also on a similar eight car train full of passengers, ran from Liverpool St to Southminster and Southend Vic on another special.

 

Teasing aside, this has been a massive problem with NR across the board- they wouldn't accept that a HST can run Grantham to Skegness until someone produced proof that they had been before, and there are various other routes that they are banned over on paper despite having been before, the most recent example of which I can recall was Carlton Road Jcn-Harringey which was a definite "no, you can't possibly go that way" (with the EMT farewell special) until it was pointed out that they had allowed an ECS move that way every weekday for several months.

 

I'm v.sceptical that all Mk3s that ever ran on Anglia were modified as you describe, the Pretendolino set and various other short term uses of ex Virgin coaches can't all have been modified and then de-modified to normal just to run a few trips over there.

 

[scottrains29]

12 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Hornby still seem to have an obsession with kettles!

[TomScrut]

14 hours ago, adb968008 said:

spot the competition though…its a class 411 CEP, in a later shot you can see an NSE VEP dismantled too, mind boggles

 

Taking the opposition's stuff to bits is a fairly common practice across a lot of industries (where cost effective/possible) as far as I am aware.

[adb968008]

33 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

Taking the opposition's stuff to bits is a fairly common practice across a lot of industries (where cost effective/possible) as far as I am aware.

Fwiw in the show, at the beginning testing 10000 I definitely saw something as an EP I couldn't identify, I was thinking it was a modern EMU, first thought was an APT coach, but the end door/window just didn't sit right.

On the whole the series has been pretty devoid of clues, plenty of EPs of things we know about (Apt, w1, 9f etc). The only ones Ive seen have been sound, light or smoke related.  The 59 EP was the odd one out.

 

I thought last nights episode looked more like one of the earliest filmed (the guy in a Santa costume I don't think was  from this year), plus the 2021 range was January. The HST one was May, from the CHC camera.

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by adb968008

[NXEA!]

3 hours ago, fiftyfour fiftyfour said:

You'd have needed some medical aid on 15/06/1996 then- a full and not in any way modified 2+8 HST set ran the whole route from Stratford to Norwich fully laden with punters on a special from Plymouth operated by Hertfordshire Railtours and powered by 43022+43187! Or on 29/06/1997 when 43012+43185, also on a similar eight car train full of passengers, ran from Liverpool St to Southminster and Southend Vic on another special.

 

Teasing aside, this has been a massive problem with NR across the board- they wouldn't accept that a HST can run Grantham to Skegness until someone produced proof that they had been before, and there are various other routes that they are banned over on paper despite having been before, the most recent example of which I can recall was Carlton Road Jcn-Harringey which was a definite "no, you can't possibly go that way" (with the EMT farewell special) until it was pointed out that they had allowed an ECS move that way every weekday for several months.

 

I'm v.sceptical that all Mk3s that ever ran on Anglia were modified as you describe, the Pretendolino set and various other short term uses of ex Virgin coaches can't all have been modified and then de-modified to normal just to run a few trips over there.

 

The NMT has also made it to Norwich via the GEML in the past, more than once I think. 

[Steadfast]

15 hours ago, adb968008 said:

spot the competition though…its a class 411 CEP, in a later shot you can see an NSE VEP dismantled too, mind boggles

There have also been Tamiya and other maker's kits in the Airfix bits of the office, I guess both keeping up with the competition and having staff who are hobbyists will see other company's boxes entering the building. I'm surprised they haven't been blurred out though!

 

Jo

[Kris]

18 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Its 43102 city of edinburgh from R3944…

 

spot the competition though…its a class 411 CEP, in a later shot you can see an NSE VEP dismantled too, mind boggles.

 

 

I suspect that if you got into Bachmann's office you would find Hornby items at times. 

[RyanN91]

6 hours ago, scottrains29 said:

Hornby still seem to have an obsession with kettles!

"You've let the tea bag out of the cupboard", Hornby are trying their hand at the kitchen appliances market! This is their newly tooled kettle (the flying teapotman a very badly working title) . That's why you see kettles there in their offices etc. 

[RyanN91]

39 minutes ago, Kris said:

I suspect that if you got into Bachmann's office you would find Hornby items at times. 

That's nothing! Rails of Sheffield sell Hatton's products and vice versa! 

[Markwj]

4 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Fwiw in the show, at the beginning testing 10000 I definitely saw something as an EP I couldn't identify, I was thinking it was a modern EMU, first thought was an APT coach, but the end door/window just didn't sit right.

On the whole the series has been pretty devoid of clues, plenty of EPs of things we know about (Apt, w1, 9f etc). The only ones Ive seen have been sound, light or smoke related.  The 59 EP was the odd one out.

 

I thought last nights episode looked more like one of the earliest filmed (the guy in a Santa costume I don't think was  from this year), plus the 2021 range was January. The HST one was May, from the CHC camera.

 

Regarding the coach I saw it too but passed it off as a mark 4.

[RyanN91]

On 07/12/2021 at 23:38, adb968008 said:

Its 43102 city of edinburgh from R3944…

 

spot the competition though…its a class 411 CEP, in a later shot you can see an NSE VEP dismantled too, mind boggles.

(i also see huge amounts of Haribos in that office).

 

That BR Class 43 HST power car in BR INTERCITY swallow livery. I don't know why but it reminds me of The Peterkin Technic N gauge battery operated sets. Series 2, Series 3, Series 4 and Series 5 the higher the series number the more coaches plastic track accessories etc came with it ( it would be perfect apart from the incorrect wrong wheel arrangement on the locomotive ( I always remember the power car wasn't correct it wasn't even even Bo'Bo ! You'd think they would have made  both power and dummy car both Bo'Bo!) It was about £15 in 1997! In those Christmas club magazine things those free Toy catalogues that post offices, newsagents and even hardware shops yes my local childhood hardware shops sold toys! Even this!) They ordered toys in and you paid for them at the retailer. It was very 1990s! Memories! 

Edited December 11, 2021 by RyanN91
Missed info, added second photo showing incorrect wheel arrangement.

[Sir TophamHatt]

A bit late on this but glad the current offering isn't changing too much.

I have my Swallow and MML versions, but if I know there is a newer version, I'd feel bad for having the old.

 

For example, the 158 - the new version is amazing compared with the old - so much so that I am waiting for my preferred livery rather than buying the old model.  I know I am at risk with my Voyager and even the 170.  I can see major upgrades to those but the HST, I wonder whether it's just "done" now - much like the 37, 47, 66 - many locos that can't really be improved.

 

That's what I think about the HST now.

It's done, can't really be improved (thinking about RR range compared with the err.. not RR version!).

[RJS1977]

On 07/12/2021 at 16:00, Roy Langridge said:

Sometimes restrictions have been added because a line has not been confirmed as unchanged after relaying /  tamping etc. where it was known tolerances were tight. A safety first approach in such cases seems quite reasonable.

Roy

 

ISTR a steam loco on a 'special' being damaged a few years ago because track had been relaid at a different height and clearances were less than they had previously been.

[woodenhead]

10 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

 

ISTR a steam loco on a 'special' being damaged a few years ago because track had been relaid at a different height and clearances were less than they had previously been.

Wasn't it a King and they had to reduce the height of the cab to allow further mainline running?

[Global]

On 18/12/2021 at 09:33, Sir TophamHatt said:

A bit late on this but glad the current offering isn't changing too much.

I have my Swallow and MML versions, but if I know there is a newer version, I'd feel bad for having the old.

 

For example, the 158 - the new version is amazing compared with the old - so much so that I am waiting for my preferred livery rather than buying the old model.  I know I am at risk with my Voyager and even the 170.  I can see major upgrades to those but the HST, I wonder whether it's just "done" now - much like the 37, 47, 66 - many locos that can't really be improved.

 

That's what I think about the HST now.

It's done, can't really be improved (thinking about RR range compared with the err.. not RR version!).

I guess it depends on your point of view but I’d say it can be majorly improved - assuming by HST you mean loco AND coaches then Hornby’s Mk3s really let the whole thing down.

 

The power cars aren’t too bad but something isn’t quite right with the front and then there’s the  basic dcc functions with Hornby being wedded to 8pin.

 

The coaches are just too basic these days and I find Hornby’s bizarre decision to mould the CDL lights compromised both those models that should or shouldn’t have them. Surely it would have been better not to have moulded them, therefore not spoiling coaches not so fitted with these pointless lumps and merely printing orange squares for the ones that should? I don’t think the current orange lump makes much difference than if it had been flat and would actually be easier to improve if you wanted to upgrade it to a CDL light. 

 

And on top of the above, Hornby’s inability to actually match the right body parts on occasions and errors in decoration I really feel the HST is crying out to be done properly to current standards by someone else! 

Edited December 19, 2021 by Global

[adb968008]

10 hours ago, RJS1977 said:

 

ISTR a steam loco on a 'special' being damaged a few years ago because track had been relaid at a different height and clearances were less than they had previously been.

Happened a few times as I recall… 6024 lost its safety valves at Paddington, 6201 hit its chimney in Salford come to mind but think there are others, both in the long dark past at this point.

 

Catching catenary is another, 6233 did it at Preston, 61264 did it at Liverpool st, videos are online.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2021 by adb968008

[faa77]

Assuming Hornby don't announce any new tooled MK3 coaches, which are the best quality ones currently available?

[47164]

Not understanding the thought process in Margate… you would have thought improvements to the coaches would be a priority especially given Oxford mk3’s as a template,  and that probably like many  I would be surprised to see any other manufacturer produce an hst.

[BR Blue]

4 hours ago, faa77 said:

Assuming Hornby don't announce any new tooled MK3 coaches, which are the best quality ones currently available?

Its a mixed bag. Only the Hornby coaches are suitable for the HST. The Oxford rail ones are not as they are loco hauled versions. The Oxford rail ones are better in some ways, worse in others. Both versions could be better. I think the retooled ones Hornby have done to reflect the HST MK3s later in their lives are the probably the best but they are not suitable for blue/grey or executive liveries. I am still waiting for a definitive version.

Edited December 19, 2021 by BR Blue
Typo

[TomScrut]

5 hours ago, faa77 said:

Assuming Hornby don't announce any new tooled MK3 coaches, which are the best quality ones currently available?

 

The Hornby sliding doors are probably the ones with least wrong with them AFAIK.

 

Bear in mind though there isn't actually a choice with new mk3s at the moment in most circumstances other than buy or not buy. The 3 versions aren't interchangeable really. Oxfords are loco hauled, Hornbys are HST but then you have the choice of slam or sliding door. Oxford Vs Hornby for loco hauled is a choice only you can make as to how important it is. This is whether to pull Hornby ones with a loco (and with a MK3 DVT). Some loco hauled liveries exist on Hornby mk3s IIRC.

 

Slam or sliding door on a HST is prototypically only a choice in certain circumstances, normally it is what it is.

[faa77]

20 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

The Hornby sliding doors are probably the ones with least wrong with them AFAIK.

 

Bear in mind though there isn't actually a choice with new mk3s at the moment in most circumstances other than buy or not buy. The 3 versions aren't interchangeable really. Oxfords are loco hauled, Hornbys are HST but then you have the choice of slam or sliding door. Oxford Vs Hornby for loco hauled is a choice only you can make as to how important it is. This is whether to pull Hornby ones with a loco (and with a MK3 DVT). Some loco hauled liveries exist on Hornby mk3s IIRC.

 

Slam or sliding door on a HST is prototypically only a choice in certain circumstances, normally it is what it is.

  

1 hour ago, BR Blue said:

Its a mixed bag. Only the Hornby coaches are suitable for the HST. The Oxford rail ones are not as they are loco hauled versions. The Oxford rail ones are better in some ways, worse in others. Both versions could be better. I think the retooled ones Hornby have done to reflect the HST MK3s later in their lives are the probably the best but they are not suitable for blue/grey or executive liveries. I am still waiting for a definitive version.

 

Sorry, I probably should have said I'm interested in Swallow livery.

Edited December 19, 2021 by faa77

[Adamphillip]

yeah, I'm a bit perplexed by the show due to the "new" tooling HST but no mention of it elsewhere at the time of the shows release.

[TomScrut]

14 minutes ago, faa77 said:

  

Sorry, I probably should have said I'm interested in Swallow livery.

 

Well it's Hornby or Hornby I think if you're buying new (or recently made).

[TomScrut]

12 minutes ago, Adamphillip said:

yeah, I'm a bit perplexed by the show due to the "new" tooling HST but no mention of it elsewhere at the time of the shows release.

 

It is odd, especially when in the past I am sure SK has said on similar programs that they keep their cards close to their chest.