1938 Tube Stock

[PhilJ W]

51 minutes ago, metadyneman said:

There were a few spots where a '38 would bounce along at 45mph... namely on the Piccadilly line between Hammersmith & Acton Town and at the other end near Arnos grove (The picc had 15 trains of '38 stock up to 1975)

I agree but I was talking about in the tunnels. IIRC tube train speeds in the tunnels are restricted because of the tight fit for two reasons. The 'dynamic envelope', the faster they go the more they rock from side to side with the risk of striking the tunnel sides and the piston effect. As part of the ventilation the trains push the air through the tunnels and this creates a strong wind in the stations when a train approaches. If the speed was any higher there would be a gale force wind capable of blowing waiting passengers over. 

I used to travel to Acton Town for the open days at the LT museum and agree about the speeds. The current stock (72?) shakes and rocks at such speeds as the older stock.

Edited January 19, 2022 by PhilJ W

[Coppercap]

1 hour ago, metadyneman said:

There were a few spots where a '38 would bounce along at 45mph... namely on the Piccadilly line between Hammersmith & Acton Town and at the other end near Arnos grove (The picc had 15 trains of '38 stock up to 1975)

It always amused me along there when bouncing along that stretch, and most noticeable on a fairly full train, how everybody's heads, bodies, legs and arms were very noticeably swaying in complete unison. I sometimes used to wait for a 'red' train for the entertaining ride, and the sounds, bound for Hounslow West...

[Coppercap]

26 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

I agree but I was talking about in the tunnels. IIRC tube train speeds in the tunnels are restricted because of the tight fit for two reasons. The 'dynamic envelope', the faster they go the more they rock from side to side with the risk of striking the tunnel sides and the piston effect. As part of the ventilation the trains push the air through the tunnels and this creates a strong wind in the stations when a train approaches. If the speed was any higher there would be a gale force wind capable of blowing waiting passengers over. 

I used to travel to Acton Town for the open days at the LT museum and agree about the speeds. The current stock (72?) shakes and rocks at such speeds as the older stock.

1973 stock on the Piccadilly.

[Merlot]

I'm pleased with mine. The only issue I have (and it's my problem not EFE's) is the collector shoes catch on my third rail. I have code 75 with code 60 third rail. I'll definitely have to create a separate line for this (with third AND fourth rail). This was always on the cards though. Still very pleased

  

[Gwiwer]

24 minutes ago, Merlot said:

I'm pleased with mine. The only issue I have (and it's my problem not EFE's) is the collector shoes catch on my third rail. I have code 75 with code 60 third rail. I'll definitely have to create a separate line for this (with third AND fourth rail). This was always on the cards though. Still very pleased

  

Echoed here.  

 

In fairness the Peco code 75 / code 60 set-up is approximately gauged and scaled for main-line operation and not for tube trains.   I have issues with several other items clipping th ethird rail in places notably the Dapol class 73 and the DJModels 71.  Hornby's 2-Bil / Hal units are coarser scale than Bachmann's EMUs and have the shoes out beyond the rail above (or even slightly beyond) the sleeper ends but at a height which appears OK to the observer and which doesn't affect safe operation.  All the Bachmann units have shoes lined up nicely with the third rail and about the thickness of a sheet of paper above it.  

 

I don't find one small piece of control gubbins intrusive in the saloon.  Compared with Hornby's notorious 4-Vep and numerous Bachmann units which have the entire power unit wholly or partly visible in place of passenger seating the 1938 stock is well thought out and engineered.  Perhaps some of the moulding isn't as crisp as I would like but it's the old EFE body re-jigged for the powered chassis not an all-new tooling which would surely have added significantly to the cost.  A full test run has not yet been possible because the layout has scenic contruction materials all over it and the rails need a good dose of IPA.  Come to think of it an IPA would slip down a treat with me, too, but the other sort of IPA   

[LittleRedTrain]

Mine arrived yesterday and have just given it a run on the test track.

Am I missing something, or do these units really not have functional head/tail lamps?
For a model with RRP of £350 I'd expect better, even if using the old EFE tooling. (My old 4 car set cost me £100, and I considered that expensive at the time!)

 

Comparison with a car from my Tenshodo motorised Bakerloo set.


 

[Graham_Muz]

20 minutes ago, LittleRedTrain said:

Mine arrived yesterday and have just given it a run on the test track.

Am I missing something, or do these units really not have functional head/tail lamps?
For a model with RRP of £350 I'd expect better, even if using the old EFE tooling. (My old 4 car set cost me £100, and I considered that expensive at the time!)

 

Comparison with a car from my Tenshodo motorised Bakerloo set.


 

Yes... you are missing something... in that they were never advertised as having functional head/tail lamps in any part of the model specification, but that didn't seem to stop you buying one.  

[andyman7]

They were never advertised as having lights and I think that for a 'special interest' set such as this the price and spec is to be expected. The days are very long gone when a set of the unpowered EFE ones could be had for £100 - you can expect to pay £200-£300 for a complete 4 car unpowered set these days at auction. 

[LittleRedTrain]

I appreciate that they weren't ever advertised as having working head/tail lamps, and I'm aware of the price increases in the intervening years.

I'm just surprised and disappointed that Bachmann didn't make the effort to add something which you'd normally expect as standard on a model at this price point, especially since they went to the trouble of adding saloon lighting.

Hopefully one of the after-market suppliers will produce a suitable kit at some point!

Edited January 19, 2022 by LittleRedTrain

[Merlot]

I hadn't read the spec properly when I ordered it 18months ago. I hadn't realised that both driving coaches were powered and to all eight (2 x 4). axles. Even happier with mine now  

 

Edited January 19, 2022 by Merlot

[PhilJ W]

5 hours ago, Merlot said:

I'm pleased with mine. The only issue I have (and it's my problem not EFE's) is the collector shoes catch on my third rail. I have code 75 with code 60 third rail. I'll definitely have to create a separate line for this (with third AND fourth rail). This was always on the cards though. Still very pleased

  

My micro layout has one track fitted out as (none-powered) four rail and the other tracks as plain track. The four rail is code 100 to clear the third and fourth rails but the other lines are code 75 (they are not connected). Because 00 gauge is undersize by a scale 7" if the outside collector rail is spaced the correct distance from the running rail the collector shoe dangles in mid air. My solution is to remove the shoe leaving just the beam. The missing shoe is less conspicuous than if it was left dangling in mid air IMHO. Radley models just have the beam without the collector shoe.

[PhilJ W]

Another way to avoid the collector shoes catching on the third rail is to make the third (and fourth) rails flush with the running rails.

[Erixtar1992]

Yes as above, countersink the conductor rail pots into the sleepers just a touch.  In reality youll barely notice. 

[Gwiwer]

3 hours ago, LittleRedTrain said:

do these units really not have functional head/tail lamps?

 

2 hours ago, Graham_Muz said:

they were never advertised as having functional head/tail lamps

 

I too managed to overlook the absence of functioning head / tail lamps from the specification and had thought Bachmann might have used their now-usual microswitch technology to allow an on-off function with current polarity governing the display of red / white.  The single "lit" lamp on the car ends looks a little cheap though it can at least be modified to a correct display to match the destination shown by the deft use of a little paint.  

 

It's not a deal-breaker by any means but I did feel a bit miffed that when most Bachmann group items which have head / tail lamps now have working ones these do not.  I agree this was not mentioned in the description at any point and was simply my interpretation of that description.  

 

The unit has happily shunted up and down a short length of track tonight and is performing well. 

[Paul.Uni]

Video from Bachmann

 

[Erixtar1992]

Please see above for a demo of the new 1938 stock sound file  available via Roads & Rails Can also change CV157 for class 483 version whistles/guard sounds ect

[2750Papyrus]

That sounds realistic and brings back memories of my youth in London.  Personally, however, I think I might quickly become bored or annoyed with it all the time and save it for visitors.

 

When I was young, I don't think I ever heard a tube train blow it's whistle.  Not until about 20 years ago when alighting at High Barnet to take the car back northwards was I able to ask the driver if tube trains were fitted with a whistle or horn, so he gave me a personal demonstration!

[Coppercap]

20 minutes ago, 2750Papyrus said:

That sounds realistic and brings back memories of my youth in London.  Personally, however, I think I might quickly become bored or annoyed with it all the time and save it for visitors.

 

When I was young, I don't think I ever heard a tube train blow it's whistle.  Not until about 20 years ago when alighting at High Barnet to take the car back northwards was I able to ask the driver if tube trains were fitted with a whistle or horn, so he gave me a personal demonstration!

The only place I regularly heard Underground trains whistle was at Uxbridge, near the sidings just up from the station. Can't remember if they were entering or leaving the station though, but no doubt there's a 'W' sign there...

Edited January 20, 2022 by Coppercap

[PMP99]

48 minutes ago, 2750Papyrus said:

That sounds realistic and brings back memories of my youth in London.  Personally, however, I think I might quickly become bored or annoyed with it all the time and save it for visitors.

 

When I was young, I don't think I ever heard a tube train blow it's whistle.  Not until about 20 years ago when alighting at High Barnet to take the car back northwards was I able to ask the driver if tube trains were fitted with a whistle or horn, so he gave me a personal demonstration!

My recollection of tube trains whistling was generally to indicate a non stop ECS was coming through the station.

[Erixtar1992]

I hear them use the whistle on the bakerloo usually at harrow when entering the turnback siding or at stonebridge park when entering/exiting the depot.

 

[Titan]

I was doing some survey work near Ealing Broadway a few years ago on the main lines, in the days when we still did that sort of thing when trains were running during the day, and was getting in the habit of ignoring the fairly regular toots as LU trains departed etc.  Until on one occasion the lookout nudged me and said "-um, you need to get out of the way for this one, its for us this time!"  as in the distance 6023 was steaming towards us!

[Gwiwer]

Tube trains whistle at a number of locations many of which are marked with a W or SW sign. Some of those are of BR style where tube and main line share tracks. 
 

Tube trains also whistle when leaving a station as empty cars towards sidings or depots and always to warn anyone on ir about the tracks of their presence. 
 

A single long blast is normal when approaching stations at which they will not stop. Either as empty cars or when running through platforms non-stop. Examples of the latter are Piccadilly Line trains between Hammersmith and Acton Town and fast / semi-fast Metropolitan Line trains between Finchley Road, Harrow and Moor Park unless using the un-platformed fast tracks. 
 

Tube trains also whistle twice when entering  a station to alert platform staff to the fact that the passenger alarm has been activated and assisstance is required

  

[wainwright1]

18 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

My micro layout has one track fitted out as (none-powered) four rail and the other tracks as plain track. The four rail is code 100 to clear the third and fourth rails but the other lines are code 75 (they are not connected). Because 00 gauge is undersize by a scale 7" if the outside collector rail is spaced the correct distance from the running rail the collector shoe dangles in mid air. My solution is to remove the shoe leaving just the beam. The missing shoe is less conspicuous than if it was left dangling in mid air IMHO. Radley models just have the beam without the collector shoe.

We did the same with our Hornby 2 Bill and 2 Hals. It is not noticeable unless you specifically look for it. 

Ray

[Gwiwer]

10 minutes ago, wainwright1 said:

We did the same with our Hornby 2 Bill and 2 Hals. It is not noticeable unless you specifically look for it. 

Ray

At one stage I was hoping to power my SR electrics from the conductor rail but found the vagaries of scale modelling and the inconsistencies between manufacturers prohibitive.  It could be made to work - and indeed there are some "live rail" layouts out there - but the extent and intricacy of the modifications are beyond what I was prepared to undertake.  

 

The layout has a dummy third rail and in due course there may be a demonstration plank using code 100 / code 60 in LT four-rail configuration.  

[PhilJ W]

My tube train arrived this morning. Whereas my test track can accommodate any of my locomotives  it is to short to run a four coach unit. I will have to wait until the SEERS track night in a couple of weeks time to run it properly. Either that or get on with the planned extension of my micro layout.