Lathes & M/C tools

[ian@stenochs]

Hi.

Silver steel hardened and tempered works fine on brass but takes a bit of time to make the cutter. I have been using the shank of a broken end mill ground to shape in my fly cutter. Works just as well on steel and holds its edge very well.

Ian

[halfwit]

Thanks for the replies - much appreciated. Now I just need to find a blowtorch (I didn't see any in the local DIY emporium yesterday).

 

The reason that I want to use silver steel is that I can file the cutter to shape, harden it, then lightly finish with a stone.

[AndyID]

There is a method of producing all the gears in a particular DP or modulus with a single tool that is not very difficult to make. I have made a couple of them. If I can find the link again I'll post it!

Found it!

http://www.helicron.net/workshop/gearcutting/gear_cutter/

[AndyID]

Here are my first attempts. I was going to use them to make replacement gears for a clockwork Special Tank, but I never got around to making the actual gears

 

[ozzyo]

Here are my first attempts. I was going to use them to make replacement gears for a clockwork Special Tank, but I never got around to making the actual gears

 

DSCN1340.JPG

 

They look look like gear hobs, depending on the type. One type will cut a straight type of gear (forgot the name) spur? gear you would normal need a dividing -head and a mill to cut these.

 

If the second one is like a screw thread with parts cut out, this can be self hobbing, in that you mount the hob in the lathe and bring the gear blank in to the hob and it should drive it around when you introduce more of a cut.

 

Not a very good way of saying how to cut gears.

 

OzzyO.   

 

EDIT. it also looks like one is for L/H cutting.

Edited June 15, 2015 by ozzyo

[jjb1970]

I found it quite depressing that for quite a while it was often cheaper to buy a heavy duty industrial lathe than a hobby lathe as a result of so many small work shops going out of business etc. If you can only have one machine tool then it should be a lathe, it is by far the most versatile and useful although a miller is very useful.

[AndyID]

They look look like gear hobs, depending on the type. One type will cut a straight type of gear (forgot the name) spur? gear you would normal need a dividing -head and a mill to cut these.

 

If the second one is like a screw thread with parts cut out, this can be self hobbing, in that you mount the hob in the lathe and bring the gear blank in to the hob and it should drive it around when you introduce more of a cut.

 

Not a very good way of saying how to cut gears.

 

OzzyO.   

 

EDIT. it also looks like one is for L/H cutting.

 

Hi Ozzy,

 

Yes, they are a bit like hobs, but they are much simpler to make. As you say, you do need a dividing device of some sort to use them. They are not substitutes for production gear tooling.

 

I like them because an amateur can easily make a tool that will produce all the spur gears of a particular DP or modulus for a fraction of the cost of the equivalent commercial gear cutters. The link to helicron's blog explains it much better than I can.

 

Cheers!

Andy

[PatB]

A while ago I experimented with the "self-hobbing" technique described by ozzyo, using an M8 tap held in a collet in my mill/drill as the cutter and mounting the wheel to be cut on an improvised spindle bolted to the mill table. The intention was to produce a wormwheel which could use a portion of M8 bolt as the worm. It worked well, producing nice clean gear teeth. I never actually used the wheel, but that was due to giving up the project it was intended for rather than any deficiency in the part.

[Harrogate009]

In the 'attached thumbnails' below, one can see my 'project'. It's, I believe, a pre-WW2 Randa type B lathe. The reason for "I believe" is that there are no images on the internet, except mine, only the makers drawing.

 

'Tis a similar size to a unimat, with a 450mm bed.

 

It's now nearer completion than below, with more framework and the motor rewired.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Harrogate009

[AndyID]

These are helical worm gears. They were made as one long gear that was sliced into individual gears. I made them on a lathe by rigging the leadscrew with a very fast feed rate and turning the leadscrew by hand with a specially shaped tool to cut each start on the helix.

 

[Harrogate009]

The Randa works now, BTW

[JeffP]

Someone is exceedingly clever.

[ozzyo]

If this link works it shows why you should be very careful when using lathes. 

https://youtu.be/3EdQq5iAGYs

 

OzzyO.

 

PS. why he had on long sleeves and working the way that he did I don't know? Why have the saddle in the way of working? It should have been at one end or the other and for a job like this (at the chuck end? better?) Why was his mate not near the controls (stop button)? Then look at all of the crap that is around the lathe. The cleanest place is at the rear of the lathe, not the working area.

Edited June 26, 2015 by ozzyo

[ozzyo]

The Randa works now, BTW

 

That lathe is an accident waiting to happen, get some guards over the gears and belts. It could bite you one day and take a finger off. All It needs is a bit of a box that just covers the left hand end.

 

OzzyO. 

Edited June 26, 2015 by ozzyo

[Siberian Snooper]

It's a long time since i saw such bad practice in using machines like that, there was only one nasty incidence in a 'yard machine shop in the late 60's early 70's where a lathe operator caught his hair in the chuck and it nearly scalped him, he had not put the chuck guard in place and was not wearing the hat with a net for use by those with long hair, which was the fashion then. The only saving grace was that each lathe was fitted with a full length kick bar for emergency stops. the photo's were pretty gruesome even so.

[halfwit]

Interesting youtube video that. Note the m/c running in reverse, suggesting that the operator (I wouldn't describe him as a turner) is unskilled, and running at fairly low revs as well. Gloves are a big no-no, as are loose sleeves. And I would have moved the saddle out of the way and covered the bed with card to protect it from dust. Polishing isn't usually a problem (I used to do a fair amount of long shaft work, and often polished jobs in a similar fashion) as long as both hands are used so that the paper/emery cloth can be gripped at each end, so if it does grab its easy to let go. And use a long strip of cloth to keep hands away from the job.

But the main problem appears to be training, as in the lad looks he's had none!

[ozzyo]

I don't think that the lathe is running in reverse, it just looks like it is due to the timing of the film to the revs. of the lathe. If it had been running in reverse the lad would have been picked up and thrown over the top of the job. With what that could have involved!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

All in all a lot of very bad M/C shop practice.

 

OzzyO.

[Harrogate009]

That lathe is an accident waiting to happen, get some guards over the gears and belts. It could bite you one day and take a finger off. All It needs is a bit of a box that just covers the left hand end.

 

OzzyO.

 

 

Interesting you mention this, as I have built up a fibreglass box since that post using chicken wire and the remaining materials from an old project. I did say it works, but not in use. I may be young, but I'm not a complete idiot, like many seem to presume.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Harrogate009

[chris p bacon]

I've ventured into new territory for some advice.

 

I'm helping to dispose of a friends estate part of which is his workshop with 2 lathes with milling attachments, A Unimat 3 and a Hobbymat BFE65. Can someone give me a rough guide as to their worth ? I shall sell each one with all its tooling and probably through Ebay (although I'm not a fan) unless someone can point me in a better direction.

Unimat 3

Hobbymat BFE65

 

Thanks for your time, any help is appreciated. 

Edited July 3, 2015 by chris p bacon

[2mmMark]

What a lovely setup for the Unimat 3!  The stand with all the drawers shows someone has put a lot of thought into it.

 

First stop I suggest would be to look at eBay's completed listings to get prices for the basic items.  What will hold the price down is the weight of the item for postage/carriage.  On the other hand, they look like cherished well-treated lathes which counts for a lot.

 

I'll run the post by someone I know who might be able to advise.

 

Both are very workmanlike machines that will continue to give many years of service.

 

Mark

[chris p bacon]

What a lovely setup for the Unimat 3!  The stand with all the drawers shows someone has put a lot of thought into it.

 

First stop I suggest would be to look at eBay's completed listings to get prices for the basic items.  What will hold the price down is the weight of the item for postage/carriage.  On the other hand, they look like cherished well-treated lathes which counts for a lot.

 

I'll run the post by someone I know who might be able to advise.

 

Both are very workmanlike machines that will continue to give many years of service.

 

Mark

Really appreciate the help.

 

Yes the weight is an issue especially for the Hobbymat, I'm not sure which courier/carrier would take that except palletwise (or similar) so expect the listings to be pick up only.

 

I've got an idea from previous listings but wanted to get a second opinion from others with specialist knowledge.

[Adrian]

If you want to avoid the ebay hassle and fees then a popular site for listing engineering kit is www.homeworkshop.org.uk .  

[Izzy]

I've ventured into new territory for some advice.

 

I'm helping to dispose of a friends estate part of which is his workshop with 2 lathes with milling attachments, A Unimat 3 and a Hobbymat BFE65. Can someone give me a rough guide as to their worth ? I shall sell each one with all its tooling and probably through Ebay (although I'm not a fan) unless someone can point me in a better direction.

Unimat 3

Unimat 3 - Copy.JPG

Unimat 3(2) - Copy.JPG

Unimat 3 (3) - Copy.JPG

Unimat 3 (4) - Copy.JPG

Hobbymat BFE65

Hobbymat - Copy.JPG

Hobbymat 2 - Copy.JPG

 

Thanks for your time, any help is appreciated. 

 

Perhaps the first awkward task, if you're not familier with either machine, is sorting out the tooling and bits that are appropriate to each. Some will be easy, others perhaps not so. There does seem to be a wide selection of extras for the Unimat.

 

As you say the Hobbymat is quite heavy. For those who don't know, the lathe is quoted as being 45Kg. The Mill head is slightly lighter at around 30Kg.

 

Izzy

Edited July 5, 2015 by Izzy

[Izzy]

Interesting the bits on gear production and hobbing. Many years ago I made the tooling to convert my Hobbymat lathe into a hobbing machine when needed. Hobs were homemade in tool quality silver steel, and if you want to produce worm gearing, then they are just basically gashed tooth versions of the worm size to produce the correct tooth form and helix angle. The advantage is that spur gears with any number of teeth can be cut from the one tool, and with the correct hobbing tooling whether having helical or straight cut teeth

 

The big dis-advantge of 'free' hobbing is that the hob tends to overcut since it is all that is driving the gear being cut, and while the tooth form can look clean often you can end up with less actual teeth on the gear........... pre-gashing the gear wheel doesn't always help either..........

 

It's all good fun though.......

 

Izzy

[chris p bacon]

Perhaps the first awkward task, if you're not familier with either machine, is sorting out the tooling and bits that are appropriate to each. Some will be easy, others perhaps not so. There does seem to be a wide selection of extras for the Unimat.

 

As you say the Hobbymat is quite heavy. For those who don't know, the lathe is quoted as being 45Kg. The Mill head is slightly lighter at around 30Kg.

 

Izzy

Thanks.

 

Luckily the previous owner was very organised and additional parts are in their boxes or in marked boxes associated with each lathe. I have thought about splitting them up but there is a time limit as the house has been sold.

Both are going to be pick up from the Bedford area.