Arthur's Workshop

[ArthurK]

Progress with the Q7

The revised etches for the Q7 arrived together with those of the Tennant 2-4-0. After a quick build of the latter it was time to check the build of the Q7.

The footplate was much improved and easier to build than the first version. I had introduced 2mm holes in the lower layer of the footplate wich made it much easier to introduce solder between the layers. Pressing the two layers down onto a block of wood (the half etched top layer down) ensured a good bond and no wrinkles in the upper layer.The addition of slots for the visible upper frame tabs also helped with the location

 

The cab and it's windows were tackled next. The three layers of the window slides were a bit tricky but now we have a sliding rear window. The front window is fixed in the closed position. Incidentally it was very rare to see the rear windows closed, either in real life or in the many photographs of NER locos whatsoever the period. The side sheets were soldered in position then the cab front plate. This latter is inset 9" behind the cab side sheet front so that the larger boiler (similar to the B16) could be accommodated. This did restrict the interior of the cab so that it was not as roomy as it appeared. It also accounts for the reason that the windows are not symetrically placed on the cab side. The cab interior was made up. It is a push fit and not permanently fixed.

 

 

 

The saddle for the boiler was bent up. This was a bit on the tight side when fitted between the frames. I will have to make amends. The biggest problem the was the lack of a top to the saddle, it was missing from the artwork. A piece of scrap etch was cut, bent and soldered on the saddle top. A bit of filing to clean up and the job was done.

The curved front of the valve covers was difficult to bend to profile and again a rethink is needed on this one. The step was bent up added.

 

Time to roll the boiler. I always have trouble starting the radius from a free edge. I find it helps to have a second layer of scrap brass under this edge then rolling the two together is much easier with the radius now continuing right up to the edge. Next the firebox sides. Having got that nice curvature, we must now introduce a reverse curve. I do this with the fingers using a brass rod to form the curve. Getting this curve parallel to the boiler and in the right position is paramount. The firebox sides below this reverse curve must then be flattened. I use the smooth jaws of my vice to start this (then protecting the surface with a piece of wood or scrap brass tap it gently until it is truly flat. Of course all this work is very much easier if the metal is annealed first but when I do this I usually end up with a dent in the boiler sooner or later, it is very soft. The boiler former (that was also missing from the artwork so I pinched one from a scrap B15 etch as it was the same diameter) was soldered flush inside the boiler front. Then the smokebox front was soldered to the front of that. This gives the characteristic smaller diameter representing the pressed smokebox front ring which fits inside the smokebox cladding. This step is a bit exagerated I will make a slight increase in its diameter. The boiler front was completed by adding the steps.

 

[Rob Pulham]

Looking lovely Arthur.

[ArthurK]

Progress with the Q7 - Now the Underframe

This was done in a bit of a rush as I wanted to take it to Scalefour North. the sides was fettled to remove edge cusps and the hornblock cutouts removed. I use Chris Gibbon (HighLevel) parts for these. They are easy and accurate. The driving axle (the second) was the first. The two fames were placed face to face with a piece of thick card between and clamped together. The first hornblock was soldered to the uppermost frame then the axlebox and axle added. The whole was the turned over and then the opposing hornblock and axlebox slid down the axle. After a check that the axle was square with the frames the hornblock was soldered in position. This was the repeated for each axle using the coupling rods as a axle spacer in the usual way.

 

The spacers were bent up where necessary. They were all placed into position with the frames held apart with some turned frame spacers. I soldered the major spacers to one frame only starting at the 'U' spacer in the middle then those at the front and back. The remaining spacers are then soldered, again one side only. I used a long piece of 1/8" steel through the driving axle boxes and do a final check that all is square and that the frames are flat. Then I soldered up the whole thing solid.

 

The cylinders are removable at this stage but the cylinder flange must be soldered to the frame. with the bolts showing along the edges. These lines of bolts continue down to the frame bottom and since these cannot be etched I used 0.5mm wire to represent these. I do not like these as a push up job as that looks lihe a roundhead rivet rather than a bolt.

 

Then to the slidebar bracket. This is a 'fold over' job with a flange added by the frame showing bolt detail and another flange on the top. The photos will make this clear. I am not too happy with this design, making them continous between the frames would make assembly much easier. However the result is very reaonable and has that bulky look of the real thing.

 

 

 

 

The was far as I was able to get it was Friday evening and ScaleFour North was the Saturday.

[ArthurK]

The Q7 needs a Tender

 

The Tenders behind the Q7s were of the latest self trimming type with capacity of 4125 gallons as used on the later Q6s and on the B16s. Apart from the obvious differences (self trimming coal well and oblong frame cutouts) these tenders were wider a 7' 10" as opposed to the 7' 5" of tne earlier 4125 gallon tenders and carried an extra half ton of coal. These tenders did not carry water pickup gear.

 

The construction of the model follows most of the same princpals as my earlier 3038 and 3940 gallon tenders as outlined previously in this thread. Suffice to say that it went together pretty well and requires only a very little change. the results are below.

 

 

 

 

Next it is a matter of checking that the various bits of the loco actually fit properly and then add the details.

[ArthurK]

Q7 - Putting the bits together

 

Time to find out if all the bits built so far actually fit together. In fact apart from a wrongly placed hole in the cylinder block it went together surprisingly well. Here is the result.

 

 

 

 

Next stage is to start with the brake hangers and I know there is a problem here, The slots in the frames are undersize but we will squeeze them in somehow. -- Watch this space!

 

Also required are the firebox washout covers and the detail on the larger, lower, plugs.

Then the cylinder covers. After that We nust think about wheels. These will probably be from Gibson. For this prototype I plan to use beams for the loco. These were included on the etch. The tender will be sprung in the same way as my smaller tenders.

[ArthurK]

"Royal Charlotte" A Sentinal Railcar.

On Jonathan Weallan's West end workshop. I posted a photograph of my own scratch built Sentinal as a comparison with his current build of the NU Cast offering. This raised a few comments so that I thought it was worth a few more words on my own thread.

 

"Royal Charlotte" was one first that I remember seeing. To us as kids it was always 'Apple Charlotte' - well it was green! It was shedded at Tweedmouth just prior to WW2. Mine is totally scatchbuilt from plasticard which of course makes it very much lighter than the NU-Cast one. It ran in this form for many years on my 16.5mm layout "Teesdale" (based on Middleton in Teesdale). The real "Royal Charlotte" was moved to Sunderland and was probably used on the run to Middleton. That is the only excuse that I needed.

 

 

The question of Glazing was raised. In fact it fits between two layers of plasticard making up the shell. It was added after painting was complete.

 

The roof is detachable. It clips to the body shell at the rear and is secured at the the front by the chimney which screws into place. By unscrewing it the whole roof can be removed and internal detail added. The compartments are populated with slaters figures, the two Matelots, the cuddling couple and (of course) the inevitible Nun.

 

 

Now the Heath Robinson bit. I decided at the beginning that the complete motor unit would be suspended from the ceiling of the drivers compartment. I don't think self contained bogie units existed in those days (we are late seventies/early eighties here). Also I did not have a suitable motor to power it with. In it's first form I used the armature from a scrap motor from which I also kept the magnet. The pole pieces were from 16swg steel hammered into shape. The motor shaft drove a second shaft through 1:1 gears. This lower shaft drove both axles via the usual worms and gears. This was all contained in a hefty brass frame which looked rather like the number 4 and at the top carried a pivot on a plate attached to the ceiling.

 

 

This combination ran for many years but the motor was later replaced by a cheap "square" motor costing all of 50p. This sat between the two worms and made the upper shaft redundant. This was in turn replaced by a 'flat can' motor placed behind the unit as in the photograph. This required a large area of the luggage compartment floor to be removed. A lump of blue-tack prevent the motor rotating

 

In time my thoughts turned to P4 and since the railcar was still in a presentable state I mad the decision to convert it. This time I took the easy way out. I bought a Black Beetle power bogie fitted with P4 wheels. The ceiling suspension was discarded and a pivot for the bogie built at a much lower level.

 

Some day I will get around to replacing the cosmetic frames for both front and rear.

 

Note the Kadee coupling, my standard in those days. Useful for attached the odd van if required

 

[ArthurK]

Progress with the Q5.

Last week was a notable one. Some of the lost wax castings arrived. In particular the Slidebars and Crosshead and also the various safety valves. I should be noted that the cover for the Ramsbottom valves was not the usual 'Standard' version but was taller and the lever was above the cab roof. No doubt this was due to the larger and higher pitched boiler.

 

 

Slidebars, crosshead and front cylinder cover with tail rods. Sorry I photographed the crosshead from the reverse. check the photo below for the way it really looks.

 

Safety valve, Ramsbottom type, Ross pop with cover and Ross pops without.

 

Not put these on the model yet but you can judge from the next shots how it Will look.

 

Slide bars and Cross heads in place.

 

Check that the Ramsbottom valve seats correctly.

[mikemeg]

Arthur,

 

These locos really do look 'the business'; those castings look superb. I think I'll have to 'get me order off' now that you've got the castings available. Will any of these various castings be available separately?

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[ArthurK]

Arthur,

 

These locos really do look 'the business'; those castings look superb. I think I'll have to 'get me order off' now that you've got the castings available. Will any of these various castings be available separately?

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

Hello Mike

 

You may have read earlier in this thread and in the Small Suppliers forum that it is planned that the Q5 be released as a complete kit via David Geen. Preparations are at an advanced state and it is hoped that it will be available for EXPOEM North at Slaithwaite. If there is a demand for separate castings this should be possible. The safety valve is not the 'bog standard' variety of the NER as used on many of the smaller NER locos. It is taller but will suit B13, A6 and other of the larger locos having boilers of five feet (with cladding) and low arc cab roofs.

The slide bars are suitable for many NER outside cylinder locos such as Q5, Q6, Q7 (with bends), B15, B13 and others. On some locos (e.g. C7) the casting at the rear of the cylinder was encased in a cover but it was not unknown for even these to be in service without them.

 

Arthur

[Horsetan]

Will the David Geen arrangement also apply to the Q7?

[ArthurK]

Will the David Geen arrangement also apply to the Q7?

 

It has never been my intention to provide complete kits on my own. The David Geen arrangement enables buyers to obtain a full kit without having to resource bits from elsewhere in the trade. It enables me to continue developing the etches (and most of the masters for the castings). The initial agreement is for the Q5 and a follow up with the Q5/2 and the B15. The sucess (or otherwise) of these will decide the future for the others but hopefully they will follow.

 

As you will be aware I am developing the Tennant 2-4-0, the Q7, the original NER 4-6-0T (Class W) and it's rebuild (4-6-2T) which became the A6.

 

Arthur

[micklner]

It has never been my intention to provide complete kits on my own. The David Geen arrangement enables buyers to obtain a full kit without having to resource bits from elsewhere in the trade. It enables me to continue developing the etches (and most of the masters for the castings). The initial agreement is for the Q5 and a follow up with the Q5/2 and the B15. The sucess (or otherwise) of these will decide the future for the others but hopefully they will follow.

 

As you will be aware I am developing the Tennant 2-4-0, the Q7, the original NER 4-6-0T (Class W) and it's rebuild (4-6-2T) which became the A6.

 

Arthur

 

Arthur

I hope it goes well for you, any idea what price they will on sale for.

Locos looking good

 

Mick

[ArthurK]

WORK ON THE "W" 4-6-2 REBUILD (LNER A6)

 

I decided to have a go at the A6. I did the etches for these at the same time as the "W" as there was so much in common. After about three hours work this is what I have.

 

The first photo is of the two footplate layers and the two side tanks. Both have the cab beading and one is full soldered. The other is left open to show my folding technique.

 

 

Next the side in coseup

 

The two sides unsoldered and soldered

 

A trilal assembly. No solder yet ( except for the side tanks) it is all held by fold over tags. So far all is well.

 

Cab front in place and it begins to look like a model

 

Yes the upper frames ane not straight but I did say there was no solder as yet.

[Tim Lewis]

A6 looks lovely Arthur. Difficult to justify for Coldstream, but it will be (yet another NER loco kit that is) hard to resist.

[James]

Arthur, are you like to be doing an A7 in the future?

[ArthurK]

Arthur, are you like to be doing an A7 in the future?

 

 

James --- Love to time permitting.

 

Arthur

[ArthurK]

WORK ON THE "W" 4-6-2 REBUILD (LNER A6)

 

Another afternoon and most of the body is just about ready for assembly. Cab rear needs only the brake standard casing to be added and the brake handle itself. I suppose I should add to that sandbox levers, the sandboxes themselves are under a hinged panel. It would be easier to add these now whilst everything is out in the open. The reverse lever is in place.

 

The first shot shows the three major bits ready to assemble.The reverse lever attached to the right hand tank.

For the front frames I chose to drill the bolt holes rather than press up in rivet fashion. 0.5mm wire used to represent the bolts. Much more 'bolt like' than a pressed rivet.

 

 

The other bits (cab front and rear) are also nearly ready. The cab front is simplt two layers with petals bent up to hold the boiler. The cab rear is a more complex subassembly. Easier to do outside of the cab sides.

 

 

That is it for today, just needs a little more clean up. Then it is time to start on the bunker, mine will have the plated coal rails.

The front Sandwich buffer beam is in place but the rear one has yet to be added.

The boiler will be the next, then it begin to look like an A6.

[Worsdell forever]

Can't wait to get my grubby little mits on one of these. Half a rake of D&S NER coaches waiting for it...

[ArthurK]

WORK ON THE "W" 4-6-2 REBUILD (LNER A6)

 

Another afternoon. The cab rear complete. Looking at the photos the sandbox handles look a bit crude but in the kit version these will be castings. I had completed the assembly of tanks on the previous session. Now the detailing of some of the fiddly bits like the tank front handrails and the equalising pipe joining the bottom of the tank fronts. This is bent down in the centre to clear the boiler. The cab roof is ready but I haven't yet decided how to make this detachable.

 

 

 

 

So how are this going? all the major bits went together without any problems. It was only when I started on the finer details that things did not go too well. The cab sandboxes caused a problem. There is a projection to take the hinge for the cab doors. I have tried a number of paper designs for this and I think that I have the answer. Next time perhaps.

 

The flanges for the equaliser pipes are too thin but a backing for this was already in hand.

 

The bend over flanges to take the cab roof are too narrow, these will be widened. The relieving slot above the cab opening weakens that area too much. It will be replaced by a dash line rather than a full slot.

 

Both the original and the rebuild were designed in something of a rush and because they shared so much in common it was inevitable that I copy parts of the one across to the other. The cab areas were both identical so I only needed to design one. But what moment of madness made me use copy the bunker coal rails over to the rebuild? the latter are so much longer. Now I will have to cobble some up from scratch! Fortunately the NER standardised on the size of the rails (2") and their spacing (1 1/2"). As a consequence I can use the unused two rails from the J24 tender. Watch this space.

 

That's about it for today, next the completion of the body details (cab rails and doors, the footplate steps and the sandboxes behind the front steps). These latter were later moved above the footplate but as I said this is an early LNER example.

 

The it is onto the boiler.

[ArthurK]

WORK ON THE "W" 4-6-2 REBUILD (LNER A6)

 

Another problem that I had not forseen was that when the engines were rebuilt to 4-6-2Ts the NER added brakes to the bogie wheels altough these were later removed by the LNER. However it does mean that I cannot use the "Standard" NER bogie with it's visible compemsation beams. Instead of beams, coil springs were used for each axlebox. The inner frames appear to be indentcal. This means two things, first I will have to devise a new means of compensation or springing and secondly I will have to make masters for the brake cylinder and brake blocks and hangers. That's life! The LNER simply removed the brakes but did not revert to the original bogie.

 

The good point is that these bogies (with brakes) were also used on the A7 and (without brakes) on the A8. I thinkk they were also used on the T1 but I will have to check that.

[James]

James --- Love to time permitting.

 

Any chance of one before spring 2013?

 

Not a randomly picked date but it would leave sufficent time before Botanic Garden's debut!

 

And if you had time, how about a T1? It's a favourite of one of our members!

[John B]

I'd love to know how to get hold of some of these etches (and even complete kits) when they become available - David Geen's website isn't listing anything as yet.

 

They're certainly a few bars above anything that's been previously available for NER modellers, the odd offerings from Dave Bradwell and Steve Barnfield / London Road aside.

[ArthurK]

Any chance of one before spring 2013?

 

Not a randomly picked date but it would leave sufficent time before Botanic Garden's debut!

 

And if you had time, how about a T1? It's a favourite of one of our members!

 

My first choice would have been the A7 rather than the A6 but having decided to proceed with the "W" it seemed only natural to do the rebuild (the A6) as well.

Yes the A7 is on the books - some time - but I cannot commit myself to a date but three years is a long time. It is only four years since I started all of this. The T1 could also fall into this timescale.

[ArthurK]

I'd love to know how to get hold of some of these etches (and even complete kits) when they become available - David Geen's website isn't listing anything as yet.

 

I am working towards having the Q5 available in about a months time (for EXPOEM North). I will make a announcement within the next few weeks.

 

The Q5/2 will follow.

 

Arthur

[John B]

I am working towards having the Q5 available in about a months time (for EXPOEM North). I will make a announcement within the next few weeks.

 

The Q5/2 will follow.

 

Arthur

 

Fantastic - many thanks, Arthur. I'll be watching with even more interest..