Peterborough North

[great northern]

14 hours ago, davidw said:

Thank you Gilbert.  I'd not considered the HMRS Journal. 

I've seen the Thompson BG but resisted temptation.  I can now justify to myself if not Ruth why need them.

 

The other thing to be taken into consideration, of course, is the condition of the locomotive. It may be high mileage, and being used on non express work until it gets called in for overhaul. Rough riding, not steaming well, or even running in after repairs on shed, any of those might apply.

[davidw]

2 hours ago, great northern said:

The other thing to be taken into consideration, of course, is the condition of the locomotive. It may be high mileage, and being used on non express work until it gets called in for overhaul. Rough riding, not steaming well, or even running in after repairs on shed, any of those might apply.

Thanks for the further thoughts 

[great northern]

Back to Kittiwake now, running in past the resting C12.

Not easy to photoshop, this one, so it is a bit ragged around the edges. In fairness though, would a photographer in 1958 have been able to get the whole image pin sharp? And why do I always type iamge instead of image?

[Anthony]

Finger salad?

[great northern]

From under and beyond the bridge, we see A1 and J6 both at rest.

Wall to wall sunshine forecast today, so I should at last be able to run trains and get some more photos. Unless, that is, the man who is coming to do the annual burgar alarm check turns up at precisely the wrong time.

[great northern]

The man did turn up at the wrong time, but I delayed lunch, and made the most of the sun, so the image store is somewhat better populated. No time to shop new stuff yet though, so still one image this evening. A last look at Kittiwake, as it runs past the tranship shed.

[great northern]

The 9.43 arrival from Leicester brings that nicely cleaned Derby Compound.

This will be the last Midland train we shall see on the Up for many hours, as our sole passenger platform will be overstretched in dealing with our own trains, so these Leicesters will pass by to the West, heard, but not seen, as those lines of wagons in the sidings obscure the view. Black 5s, plenty of those, many 4Fs, even the occasional unrebuilt Patriot, together with the usual 8Fs etc, but we shan't see any of them.

[great northern]

Just a little nearer the stop, 41157 comes past North box.

[great northern]

Seagull is now off on the way to Grantham.

For some reason I did another very similar shot, and didn't fancy doing all the shopping again, so I cropped it and changed it to black and white.

A very large black cloud must have obscured the sun just as the photographer took this.

[great northern]

41157 has set off, but won't get far, as the 8.08 KX-Skegness on the Down main has to clear Crescent Junction first. It has eleven on, so the wait may not be a long one.

 

The B1 comes under the bridge, and will stop at Platform 6 for four minutes. I wish I knew which of these Skeggy trains were Pacific hauled as far as PN. I suspect there were some, but that the stopping time would be longer if that was the case.

 

 

[great northern]

The fireman has just had to walk back to pick up the lamp which has fallen off the back of the rear coach, and that gave our man the chance to get this shot.

 

61204 meanwhile runs in and stops at Platform 6.

[Oldddudders]

18 minutes ago, great northern said:

The fireman has just had to walk back to pick up the lamp which has fallen off the back of the rear coach, and that gave our man the chance to get this shot.

 

 

 

I suspect that might have been the guard actually, tail lamps being his responsibility - but it's a good story!

[great northern]

4 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

I suspect that might have been the guard actually, tail lamps being his responsibility - but it's a good story!

Well yes, but the guard's door is right behind the tender of the Compound, and he's getting on a bit and his back is giving him grief, so the young fireman got the job instead, as it was only a few steps further.

[great northern]

The B1 is on its way, as another A1 comes through on the Up.

 

The reverse angle confirms that the A1 is Doncaster's Patrick Stirling, which will pass here non stop with an express from its home town to KX.

[jazzer]

23 hours ago, great northern said:

41157 has set off, but won't get far, as the 8.08 KX-Skegness on the Down main has to clear Crescent Junction first. It has eleven on, so the wait may not be a long one.

 

The B1 comes under the bridge, and will stop at Platform 6 for four minutes. I wish I knew which of these Skeggy trains were Pacific hauled as far as PN. I suspect there were some, but that the stopping time would be longer if that was the case.

 

 

 I wouldn’t place too much significance on the length of stop as an indication of whether there was an engine change Gilbert , if Stephen Austin’s Book “ Atlantic Coast Express “ is anything to go by.  I don’t have the book with me at the moment and can’t remember the exact details but from  memory I think Mr Austin said that the ACE would stop for six minutes at Salisbury on weekdays to change engines and detach a carriage that would then be attached to a stopping train. On Summer Saturdays though the main portion was allowed two minutes according to the public timetable but four minutes according to to the WTT, but even that was rarely enough and more often than not it was still a six minute stop or longer .  Maybe the publicity people had a say in it to impress holiday makers , or maybe the time tablers we’re just giving it a theoretical time because platform occupation was pretty heavy at the time.

As to your B1 I would imagine the  4200 gallon tender would be ready for a pretty good “drink” before setting off to Skeggy , not to mention a fair bit of coal to be shovelled forwards so  quite possibly the crew wouldn’t be taking the four minutes the timetable allowed too seriously.

Incidentally, do you know if any of the B1’s did round trips to Grimsby or Skeg  in a single day? It would mean pretty good engine utilisation in a single day ? Theoretically possible but it would be a good effort.

[great northern]

61204 now seen from Spital Bridge as it heads for the seaside.

 

While Patrick Stirling is passing North box.

 

 

 

[great northern]

18 hours ago, jazzer said:

 I wouldn’t place too much significance on the length of stop as an indication of whether there was an engine change Gilbert , if Stephen Austin’s Book “ Atlantic Coast Express “ is anything to go by.  I don’t have the book with me at the moment and can’t remember the exact details but from  memory I think Mr Austin said that the ACE would stop for six minutes at Salisbury on weekdays to change engines and detach a carriage that would then be attached to a stopping train. On Summer Saturdays though the main portion was allowed two minutes according to the public timetable but four minutes according to to the WTT, but even that was rarely enough and more often than not it was still a six minute stop or longer .  Maybe the publicity people had a say in it to impress holiday makers , or maybe the time tablers we’re just giving it a theoretical time because platform occupation was pretty heavy at the time.

As to your B1 I would imagine the  4200 gallon tender would be ready for a pretty good “drink” before setting off to Skeggy , not to mention a fair bit of coal to be shovelled forwards so  quite possibly the crew wouldn’t be taking the four minutes the timetable allowed too seriously.

Incidentally, do you know if any of the B1’s did round trips to Grimsby or Skeg  in a single day? It would mean pretty good engine utilisation in a single day ? Theoretically possible but it would be a good effort.

I have read that by 1958 engine changes at PN had been considerably reduced, precisely because they were adding to already unacceptable delays, but I know there were still some, and I have seen accounts of Pacifics coming off E.Lincs trains here. I suppose in a way that might cancel out the minutes needed for watering and coal shovelling if there was no change of loco.

 

I've looked closely at the WTT to analyse what went on at Grantham, where there were a lot more changes, and found that stops ranged from three to six minutes. I've assumed that the longer stops might logically be to give time for the change, and that does fit in with what I've discovered regarding which trains did change engine there. In the end it is probably all theoretical, as it seems that it was normal for the timetable to have gone out of the window by lunchtime at the latest.

 

As to the last paragraph, I do know for certain that the locos on the regular Grimsby and Cleethorpes to KX services worked through, and came back the same day. At least one of them had a change of crew at Boston, which would have helped, no doubt. There were a lot more on Saturdays, of course, but I reckon the locos would have worked both ways on those too, as the logistics of getting them from Skeggy to where they would be needed next would have meant a lot of light engine movements. Again locos were worked up to KX on Friday afternoons/evenings to have them ready for the early Saturday departures, so those crews would probably lodged overnight and theoretically have had a night's sleep.

[great northern]

Back under the roof, with 60119 in the distance.

 

and soon afterwards, back out in the fresh air.

[great northern]

Patrick Stirling runs on past the J6, and will have begun to accelerate away. 

 

and now, all parcels transfers having taken place, 64177 can wander gently down to East.

 

[great northern]

A hitherto unknown volume of sound announces the presence of Deltic, which now appears beneath the bridge. Its Saturday duty is the 8.18 KX- Filey Holiday Camp, which it will take as far as Doncaster. And on this day it gets to haul a load more commensurate with its power and potential, as there are thirteen carriages behind it.

This is as the camera saw it, as I couldn't be bothered to shop the whole thing just to remove one crease, even though it does manage to get right behind the locomotive.

 

You seem to like Deltic, so here is a close up, again as the camera saw it.

It is an imposing beast.

 

[great northern]

Yet more Deltic this bright,fine morning. 

 

With 13 on, Deltic is well off the platform end. Can our railwaymen, former or present, enlighten me on matters procedural? What would happen here as regards passengers in the coaches which were not at the platforms?  Would it be a case of moving the train up during the stop, or would the guard have visited the overhanging coaches, front or rear, and advised passengers wishing to alight at Peterborough to move along a carriage or two? The latter would be much simpler, provided peope took notice.

[31A]

46 minutes ago, great northern said:

Would it be a case of moving the train up during the stop, or would the guard have visited the overhanging coaches, front or rear, and advised passengers wishing to alight at Peterborough to move along a carriage or two?

 

I think it was fairly usual to 'draw up' long trains after station work in the front section had been completed to get the rear section on the platform, I remember seeing it being done in the 1970s, Huntingdon being a place which comes to mind.  There may also have been parcels traffic for the station in the overhanging section for example, although I expect that would have been taken into account when loading where possible.  It wasn't a quick thing to do but might possibly be a reason for some station stop times being longer than would seem necessary on the face of it.  Another way of dealing with it, if a regular occurrence, was window labels on the relevant coaches advising passengers for 'short' stations not to travel in them.  Again on the GN, loco hauled trains used to have printed window labels covering stops at Biggleswade, Sandy, St. Neots etc.

[great northern]

As Deltic starts to leave, one of our A2/2s arrives with the early Doncaster stopper.

 

The Wolf this morning, captured just as it emerged from beneath the canopy.

[davidw]

Is the Wolf a Hornby model? If so may I ask for further  photos of it?