Peterborough North

[jazzer]

2 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

And that fits perfectly with something I have quoted before. Circa 1990, the man from Dupont was making his first visit to BRB. He walked into the Chairman's office with the words "Good morning Chairman - how many staff have you killed today?" Culture change did come about. If the pendulum seemed to sometimes swing too far, well that was to be expected. 

Yes, a sensible observation on was a semi- tongue in cheek comment from me.  I spent most of my working life investigating industrial accidents. At times I have seen men suffering the most horrendous injuries, and sometimes killed often as a result of poor working practices, and sometimes as a result of their own stupidity in taking dangerous shortcuts in their work . 
As you say, the pendulum has swung too far the other way. Compensation culture has proved to a remunerative little industry in some cases. 
Coming back to our picture of the cleaners it struck me as interesting that with reasonable care and experience the job could be done in the position they were in .One old steam era driver told me he was taught to have three points of contact out of four , so that one hand or foot was free while the other hands/ feet were holding/standing securely. That strikes me as good advice. There is a lot to be said for the engine crews starting as cleaners and rising through the ranks, learning as they go. In someways Health and Safety has added something to the work place but taking something as well.

As I said, my comment was semi - tongue in cheek, but I hope even observations on cleaners add something interesting to our mental images of the Steam era.

 

 

[LNER4479]

3 hours ago, Oldddudders said:

And that fits perfectly with something I have quoted before. Circa 1990, the man from Dupont was making his first visit to BRB. He walked into the Chairman's office with the words "Good morning Chairman - how many staff have you killed today?" Culture change did come about. If the pendulum seemed to sometimes swing too far, well that was to be expected. 

I came across the attached some years ago and keep a careful hold of it. A reminder of how far we've come ... and to question by return the all too common 'elf n safety gorn mad' accusation.

In the research for Grantham (trying to maintain some relevance!), I came across interesting snippet that, back in the day, the ground floor of the water tower opposite Grantham main station was designated as the local railway morgue ...

Railway Safety Report 1972.pdf

[Mallard60022]

On 01/04/2024 at 13:18, great northern said:

But 60005 was always a double chimney engine, wasn't it? I took that into account, but missed the AWS. Of course 1963 makes sense, as that would be why there was such a thick layer of grime to take off.

1963... got to be a special then? 6 Bells site search perhaps? No sign 1958 to 1964.

Some sort of publicity/ film effort?

P

Edited April 2 by Mallard60022

[Ollie K]

27 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

I came across the attached some years ago and keep a careful hold of it. A reminder of how far we've come ... and to question by return the all too common 'elf n safety gorn mad' accusation.

In the research for Grantham (trying to maintain some relevance!), I came across interesting snippet that, back in the day, the ground floor of the water tower opposite Grantham main station was designated as the local railway morgue ...

Railway Safety Report 1972.pdf 163.27 kB · 5 downloads

In the context of this discussion, this caption from the excellent Keith Pirt Grantham album has always stood out to me as being perhaps a little too nostalgic:

 

[great northern]

Always try not to be too black and white. There is a duty of care owed by an employer, but also a duty to take care on the part of an employee. How many times was over confidence and/or over familiarity involved? Quite a lot, I suspect. The "men were men" in the caption above and "only themselves to blame" is totally inappropriate, because there shouldn't be so many hazards, but that doesn't mean they should be ignored by those who encountered them.

 

I have just acquired a car which has all sorts of helpful functions. It will automatically make a severe brake application when it senses an emergency, or warn me if I drift out of my lane, and if I take no notice it will steer the car back to where it thinks it should be. There follows paragraph after paragraph in the manual giving circumstances where either a warning may not be given, or may be false. Why? My lawyer hat tells me that is to avoid liability wherever possible, but it is also to cater for numbskulls who will think that the car will do everything for them, so they can just drive like idiots. 

[rowanj]

21 minutes ago, great northern said:

Always try not to be too black and white.

I told you the photo had nothing to do with Magpies.......

[great northern]

Camera on tripod, had to put it down somewhere, then looked in view finder, thought it looked nice, so here's a plonk. I do not know why this happens. This thing wouldn't let me type any more, so I closed it off, intending to do another post. But then it put up the image I wanted next, but wouldn't let me type a caption. So, edit, and here's the Hull fish empties.

Edited April 2 by great northern
PC messing me about.

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, great northern said:

That's the problem, I think. There is always over compensation before things settle down. It is very difficult to start from a low and to stop at just the right point.

That's because in matters such as this it's impossible to predict what is "just the right point"...

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, jazzer said:

Yes, a sensible observation on was a semi- tongue in cheek comment from me.  I spent most of my working life investigating industrial accidents. At times I have seen men suffering the most horrendous injuries, and sometimes killed often as a result of poor working practices, and sometimes as a result of their own stupidity in taking dangerous shortcuts in their work . 
As you say, the pendulum has swung too far the other way. Compensation culture has proved to a remunerative little industry in some cases. 
Coming back to our picture of the cleaners it struck me as interesting that with reasonable care and experience the job could be done in the position they were in .One old steam era driver told me he was taught to have three points of contact out of four , so that one hand or foot was free while the other hands/ feet were holding/standing securely. That strikes me as good advice. There is a lot to be said for the engine crews starting as cleaners and rising through the ranks, learning as they go. In someways Health and Safety has added something to the work place but taking something as well.

As I said, my comment was semi - tongue in cheek, but I hope even observations on cleaners add something interesting to our mental images of the Steam era.

 

 

On our first day in the Apprentice Training School at Derby Loco Works (September 1974), the boss showed us a whole series of extremely graphic colour slides depicting the results of various industrial accidents. Not pleasant viewing - but a very effective way of drumming into a bunch of raw ex-schoolboys what working in a factory could mean if you a) didn't follow instructions and/or b) didn't take care.

[thegreenhowards]

15 hours ago, great northern said:

Always try not to be too black and white. There is a duty of care owed by an employer, but also a duty to take care on the part of an employee. How many times was over confidence and/or over familiarity involved? Quite a lot, I suspect. The "men were men" in the caption above and "only themselves to blame" is totally inappropriate, because there shouldn't be so many hazards, but that doesn't mean they should be ignored by those who encountered them.

 

I have just acquired a car which has all sorts of helpful functions. It will automatically make a severe brake application when it senses an emergency, or warn me if I drift out of my lane, and if I take no notice it will steer the car back to where it thinks it should be. There follows paragraph after paragraph in the manual giving circumstances where either a warning may not be given, or may be false. Why? My lawyer hat tells me that is to avoid liability wherever possible, but it is also to cater for numbskulls who will think that the car will do everything for them, so they can just drive like idiots. 

Your lawyer hat is trying to justify your career! The numbskulls won’t read that c..p. It is purely to cover the car manufacturer’s ar.e in the event of a claim by a numbskull.

 

In answer to the points up the page about how much risk would I like to expose my children to (or words to that effect). My answer is a bit more than they did get exposed to. They have been so mollycoddled that they haven’t learnt to assess risk for themselves. I think that’s more dangerous ( but the lawyers are still happy!). I accept things had to change, but now we can’t even be trusted to know not to open a door when the train is moving!

 

Rant over!

 

Andy

Edited April 3 by thegreenhowards

[great northern]

Still from on high, we follow the progress of the fish empties, and their immaculate KX B1, as they rattle through the south end approach to the station.

 

[thegreenhowards]

I do like a fish train!

[jazzer]

9 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

 I accept things had to change, but now we can’t even be trusted to know not to open a door when the train is moving!

 

Rant over!

 

Andy

Not just the passengers opening them either. Back in the 80’s  there were some  instances of doors on HST’s suddenly flying open on their own. At least one passenger was killed when the door came open unexpectedly and he fell out. I can’t remember all the details at this distance of time , but I think there were other similar occasions, although not so serious and a design fault had been warned about but ignored/forgotten about. I haven’t been on an HST for years but I think they now have some sort of central locking fitted.

I always thought it was odd that BRB could oversee what at the time was cutting edge technology in the design of the wheels , bogies and suspension to get them both safe and comfortable at 125 mph yet couldn’t get the doors to stay shut! 

[great northern]

Another plonk. I put the camera down for a moment, and saw this.

I am seriously beginning to wonder whether the extension and completion of Station Road is the best idea I have had in the 10+ years of designing the layout.

 

Fish and V2 on high. This should make  Andy The Green Howards rather happy. I suppose the only better thing might be a V2 hauling a fish train.

[New Haven Neil]

As long as we don't have smello-vision, the fish train is fine!  Too smelly a task for a lovely V2 though, which should be on a better class.....hmmm... less smelly class of fast freight.

 

I agree about Station Road, it has added a lot to the layout.

[great northern]

11 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Your lawyer hat is trying to justify your career! The numbskulls won’t read that c..p. It is purely to cover the car manufacturer’s ar.e in the event of a claim by a numbskull.

 

In answer to the points up the page about how much risk would I like to expose my children to (or words to that effect). My answer is a bit more than they did get exposed to. They have been so mollycoddled that they haven’t learnt to assess risk for themselves. I think that’s more dangerous ( but the lawyers are still happy!). I accept things had to change, but now we can’t even be trusted to know not to open a door when the train is moving!

 

Rant over!

 

Andy

They won't read it, but they will find out about it. As to the manufacturers, I think we need to take into account the case in which a lady who had bought one of those large camper van type things, read that it had cruise control and so when she got out of town set it, and walked off to make herself a drink. Following the inevitable crash, she sued the manufacturer because they hadn't spelled out exactly what cruise control allowed.  And the result? Jury found in her favour and gave her lots of money. Where did this happen, USA of course, where else?  Andof course all manuals are multinational now, so we get the lot too. I still like to think that decision would never be made in the UK, and the fact that we don't have juries in civil cases should make sure it doesn't. For once, pity the poor manufacturer though.

[great northern]

More plonks this morning, hovering around the District Engineer's domain.

 

[thegreenhowards]

14 hours ago, great northern said:

 

 

Fish and V2 on high. This should make  Andy The Green Howards rather happy. I suppose the only better thing might be a V2 hauling a fish train.

 

I agree. I do that myself!

 

[great northern]

Running a bit late this evening. We start with another plonk.

 

But then our hovering cameraman spots movement, and captures 60854 on its way to Grantham.

[great northern]

The last look at 60854 is from Spital Bridge.

 

For the time being, you might think you are still seeing the midweek sequence, as next in is the 8.35 arrival from Kings Lynn.

[Anthony]

Gilbert - the first image is stunning, and gives a wonderful impression of the scope of the layout.

 

The only drawback is that it makes me incredibly jealous - but I will cope somehow.

 

Anthony

[thegreenhowards]

2 hours ago, Anthony said:

Gilbert - the first image is stunning, and gives a wonderful impression of the scope of the layout.

 

The only drawback is that it makes me incredibly jealous - but I will cope somehow.

 

Anthony

I agree. That is my favourite viewpoint on PN.

 

Andy

[great northern]

Those who have been paying attention😉 will know that at the same time as the arrival from Kings Lynn, there is also an arrival from March.

and here it is. Tottenham Hotspur, in its last month of life, has been allocated this easy duty.

[great northern]

More high level experimentation, featuring 43108, waiting to take its ECS down to Nene sidings.

 

[great northern]

Short of light, and so short of images again. Just the one tonight,

I have photographed the whole rake behind the B17, but it will be one at a time till I can get some more taken. Who needs more than a lovely Gresley shortie BSK anyway?