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Peterborough North

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Another slew of lovely images Gilbert. I may have said this before but the crimson and cream livery really suited the Thompson coaches.

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22 hours ago, great northern said:

I finally got round to it Andy. Not very good picture, I'm afraid as it had to be done hand held, and with a long exposure. I think you should be able to see enough though.

 

I bought this many years ago, and don't know its provenance, so I can't guarantee that it is "right".

 

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_05/1116755580_RKunderframe.JPG.b0ff016daa37d07ab9ae08f4402c3433.JPG

Many thanks Gilbert,

 

That gives me a useful layout to work on. It looks like the standard Bachmann underframe, but with extra battery boxes and possibly beefed up dynamos? 

 

I also spent some time chatting to Andrew at Isinglass about it yesterday at Railex. Unfortunately his drawing doesn’t really show what those extra battery boxes look like - just a square box. It shows the two extra boxes on one side, but not the one extra on the other side.

 

Anyway, I suspect I’ve got as much data as I’m going to get now, so no excuse not to crack on!

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

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On 22/05/2019 at 20:09, thegreenhowards said:

Gilbert,

 

You know I love pictures of your coaching stock. It’s particularly good to see the Thompson RK as I’m just trying to work out what I need to put underneath my nearly completed version in the way of battery boxes etc... is there any chance you could provide a picture of the coach ‘belly up’ to give me a good view of the underfloor arrangement? I know that if Tony is following he would say that I shouldn’t copy another model, but pictures of the real thing are almost as rare as hen’s teeth!

 

All the best,

 

Andy

I don't know if this is any help, Andy, 

 

Though I'd certainly not advocate building a 'model of a model'. 

 

1906240733_ThompsonKitchenCar.jpg.4e49a2684ce44ca6ffb354702b0f8ee8.jpg

 

It's an original Bachmann Thompson used as a donor, with Southern Pride sides, heavy-duty bogies and the roof altered considerably. 

 

I've an idea there should be a further, smaller battery box to the left, but photographic evidence is elusive to say the least. 

 

If nothing else, it shows my 'sketch-book' approach to making models, especially something like this which runs in a 12-car formation. 

 

As an addition, the Pro-Scale V2 mentioned recently in these pages was built by Alan Hammett and, as Gilbert said, ran on Stoke Summit and Charwelton as Tony Geary's property. I 'fiddled' with it once or twice to ensure that it ran around tighter curves when Gilbert bought it off Tony, and tested it thoroughly on LB after changing the motor to ensure it was DCC-capable. 

 

1596489582_ProscaleV201.jpg.f2829efde3efb30ad847a0ee6ddd837b.jpg

 

Tony Geary weathered it. I think Tim Easter changed its identity. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

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11 hours ago, great northern said:

Next we have another V2 to look at, but being a KX engine, it is considerably better turned out.

 

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_05/558245973_7854.JPG.ba0f0acb956fabccbf63b3a7b27c514a.JPG

 

There is a lot of clutter to avoid when taking pictures from this angle, and this time the photographer was not entirely successful.

   No such problems with the next one though.

 

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_05/1626925016_88542.JPG.75844cb74b773b5f31ede9e497f94317.JPG

 

Off to see our golf professional to find out why I am so cr*p at it.

 

I don’t about golf but when I look at these pictures of PN I think I need to see someone to find out why I am so cr*p   at modelling ! ! !

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2 hours ago, jazzer said:

 

I don’t about golf but when I look at these pictures of PN I think I need to see someone to find out why I am so cr*p   at modelling ! ! !

Don't be too hard on yourself. Some top modellers have been responsible for what I am so lucky to own. I'm not one of them, but at least it was my idea!

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G'Day Folks

 

Seeing you can't turn the O2 at Tempsford, shouldn't it be working tender first, or am I getting it mixed up with the Little Barford Power station coal train ???

 

manna

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2 hours ago, manna said:

G'Day Folks

 

Seeing you can't turn the O2 at Tempsford, shouldn't it be working tender first, or am I getting it mixed up with the Little Barford Power station coal train ???

 

manna

 

They are the same thing I believe.

 

At that time, Little Barford Power Station sidings were only accessible from the Down Slow so the coal train from the north ran past Little Barford on the Up line as far as Tempsford where it reversed and served the power station on its return towards Peterborough.  But yes, there was nowhere to turn the loco.

 

When the GN Main Line was re-signalled in the 1970s, the Down Slow became reversible between St. Neots and the power station sidings, so that trains could run 'wrong road' from St. Neots and run straight into the sidings.

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27 minutes ago, 31A said:

 

They are the same thing I believe.

 

At that time, Little Barford Power Station sidings were only accessible from the Down Slow so the coal train from the north ran past Little Barford on the Up line as far as Tempsford where it reversed and served the power station on its return towards Peterborough.  But yes, there was nowhere to turn the loco.

 

When the GN Main Line was re-signalled in the 1970s, the Down Slow became reversible between St. Neots and the power station sidings, so that trains could run 'wrong road' from St. Neots and run straight into the sidings.

I'm sure you are right Steve. I have two trains listed in my WTT, though one is shown as suspended. I have, it seems, got confused (again), and failed to realise that I'm running one too many, and incorrectly anyway.

 

 

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3 hours ago, manna said:

G'Day Folks

 

Seeing you can't turn the O2 at Tempsford, shouldn't it be working tender first, or am I getting it mixed up with the Little Barford Power station coal train ???

 

manna

It's me that's getting mixed up. I assumed that this was another working to get rid of empties from around London, and I knew from Peter Coster's writings that a loco would be sent up from Hornsey to make up a train and then work it to New England. That certainly happened at New Southgate, but of course Tempsford is quite a bit further North, and when I check the WTT again it conforms it is the Little Barford working. I just can't yet fathom why I have two separate trains in the sequence.

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I don't know if this is any help, Andy, 

 

Though I'd certainly not advocate building a 'model of a model'. 

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_05/1906240733_ThompsonKitchenCar.jpg.4e49a2684ce44ca6ffb354702b0f8ee8.jpg

 

It's an original Bachmann Thompson used as a donor, with Southern Pride sides, heavy-duty bogies and the roof altered considerably. 

 

I've an idea there should be a further, smaller battery box to the left, but photographic evidence is elusive to say the least. 

 

If nothing else, it shows my 'sketch-book' approach to making models, especially something like this which runs in a 12-car formation. 

Regards,

 

Tony.

Tony,

 

Thanks for the photo. I attach some photos of the state of play on mine by way of comparison. The research I’ve done suggests the underframe should be rather different from both yours and Gilberts. The best picture I’ve found is in the blue Harris book on p106 which clearly shows the corridor side on which there are two additional battery boxes on the left of centre. This is consistent with the drawing so I’ve gone with that. I can’t find a good prototype picture of the kitchen side, but the drawings don’t show any additional boxes, so I’ve not added any. I can’t see any vacuum tanks, so I suspect they were between the battery boxes as on the Gresley Kitchen car and therefore invisible from normal viewing angles - therefore I’ve omitted them. The V hangers seem to be on the opposite side from Bachmann’s, so I’ve cut the Bachmann ones off and replaced with MJT.  They had heavy duty dynamos, so I’ve replaced the Bachmann ones with MJT BR Mk1 versions which look about right.

 

DA8E1199-B49D-4FB8-865C-16A3FBFB1537.jpeg.98aca4b94f10bbd812c027898b4bda4c.jpegC9416197-5FB9-48C2-9657-0ED891C09C6B.jpeg.52b551d2cfdcf13b2fe4120f4719c0b6.jpegE47DE2F8-279B-4D1D-A6FF-4495FCEA0147.jpeg.2507381a98b3c0c7838d67efb21f9726.jpeg

 

My underframe looks messy from underneath, but I think it’s fine from the side view which is what counts, This represents my best guess and I wouldn’t claim it’s 100% right. Of course individual vehicles may have varied through time.

 

Gilbert, apologies for invading your thread with this rather esoteric subject. Please say if you’d rather I took it elsewhere.

 

Andy

Edited by thegreenhowards
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38 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Tony,

 

Thanks for the photo. I attach some photos of the state of play on mine by way of comparison. The research I’ve done suggests the underframe should be rather different from both yours and Gilberts. The best picture I’ve found is in the blue Harris book on p106 which clearly shows the corridor side on which there are two additional battery boxes on the left of centre. This is consistent with the drawing so I’ve gone with that. I can’t find a good prototype picture of the kitchen side, but the drawings don’t show any additional boxes, so I’ve not added any. I can’t see any vacuum tanks, so I suspect they were between the battery boxes as on the Gresley Kitchen car and therefore invisible from normal viewing angles - therefore I’ve omitted them. The V hangers seem to be on the opposite side from Bachmann’s, so I’ve cut the Bachmann ones off and replaced with MJT.  They had heavy duty dynamos, so I’ve replaced the Bachmann ones with MJT BR Mk1 versions which look about right.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_05/DA8E1199-B49D-4FB8-865C-16A3FBFB1537.jpeg.98aca4b94f10bbd812c027898b4bda4c.jpeghttps://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_05/C9416197-5FB9-48C2-9657-0ED891C09C6B.jpeg.52b551d2cfdcf13b2fe4120f4719c0b6.jpeghttps://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_05/E47DE2F8-279B-4D1D-A6FF-4495FCEA0147.jpeg.2507381a98b3c0c7838d67efb21f9726.jpeg

 

My underframe looks messy from underneath, but I think it’s fine from the side view which is what counts, This represents my best guess and I wouldn’t claim it’s 100% right. Of course individual vehicles may have varied through time.

 

Gilbert, apologies for invading your thread with this rather esoteric subject. Please say if you’d rather I took it elsewhere.

 

Andy

I'm pleased to have discussions like this on the thread Andy, as we may learn from them, so let's carry on, and see if we can get any further.

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1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

Tony,

 

Thanks for the photo. I attach some photos of the state of play on mine by way of comparison. The research I’ve done suggests the underframe should be rather different from both yours and Gilberts. The best picture I’ve found is in the blue Harris book on p106 which clearly shows the corridor side on which there are two additional battery boxes on the left of centre. This is consistent with the drawing so I’ve gone with that. I can’t find a good prototype picture of the kitchen side, but the drawings don’t show any additional boxes, so I’ve not added any. I can’t see any vacuum tanks, so I suspect they were between the battery boxes as on the Gresley Kitchen car and therefore invisible from normal viewing angles - therefore I’ve omitted them. The V hangers seem to be on the opposite side from Bachmann’s, so I’ve cut the Bachmann ones off and replaced with MJT.  They had heavy duty dynamos, so I’ve replaced the Bachmann ones with MJT BR Mk1 versions which look about right.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_05/DA8E1199-B49D-4FB8-865C-16A3FBFB1537.jpeg.98aca4b94f10bbd812c027898b4bda4c.jpeghttps://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_05/C9416197-5FB9-48C2-9657-0ED891C09C6B.jpeg.52b551d2cfdcf13b2fe4120f4719c0b6.jpeghttps://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_05/E47DE2F8-279B-4D1D-A6FF-4495FCEA0147.jpeg.2507381a98b3c0c7838d67efb21f9726.jpeg

 

My underframe looks messy from underneath, but I think it’s fine from the side view which is what counts, This represents my best guess and I wouldn’t claim it’s 100% right. Of course individual vehicles may have varied through time.

 

Gilbert, apologies for invading your thread with this rather esoteric subject. Please say if you’d rather I took it elsewhere.

 

Andy

Andy, this is in no way a criticism of your build but may I ask if all Thomsons had that rather bogies inboard sort of look?

I am sure I have felt they were looking in the wrong place when I've done a couple of builds, but I put the bogies where the provided fitting hole was on the floor etch.

Phil

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G'Day Folks

 

Thank you for that explanation, I never realized that the Little Barford Power station train ran to Tempsford to run round, shows' you how much attention I pay. 

 

manna

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2 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Andy, this is in no way a criticism of your build but may I ask if all Thomsons had that rather bogies inboard sort of look?

I am sure I have felt they were looking in the wrong place when I've done a couple of builds, but I put the bogies where the provided fitting hole was on the floor etch.

Phil

 

Phil,

 

I’m not 100% sure. I put the MJT bogies over the Bachmann mounting holes. Having looked at a few other photos, they seem to all have the same look, but it’s only really apparent when viewed side on.

 

Andy

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The bogie centres should be 9'0" from the headstocks with 43'6" centres assuming I have the right diagram.

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Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, MikeTrice said:

The bogie centres should be 9'0" from the headstocks with 43'6" centres assuming I have the right diagram.

Just measured my RK and it’s spot on. Phew!

Edited by thegreenhowards
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2 hours ago, MikeTrice said:

The bogie centres should be 9'0" from the headstocks with 43'6" centres assuming I have the right diagram.

 

1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

Just measured my RK and it’s spot on. Phew!

To balance the end and centre throws (assuming a rectangular planform) designers try to make the bogie centres equal to the body length divided by the square root of 2, which is indeed the case here.

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Thanks for that. I really need to get out more rather than look at coach bogies and wonder why they are set inboard on some coaches. I think some of mine (in the Maunsell fleet) look a bit weird too. never mind, I shall get my medication now.

Should have said what a great looking coach that is. I really like the look of the Thompsons, even the BGs!

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Posted (edited)

I understand that green coaches can cause distress on here, however maybe this shows what I mean; 63' coach but the bogies don't seem so far in, or is that an illusion?

image.png.0557b8c3e822459c27150944f29a875b.pngimage.png.5c627f24ea5bc14262565345060c2286.png

Edited by Mallard60022
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9 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

I understand that green coaches can cause distress on here, however maybe this shows what I mean; 63' coach but the bogies don't seem so far in, or is that an illusion?

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_05/image.png.0557b8c3e822459c27150944f29a875b.pnghttps://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_05/image.png.5c627f24ea5bc14262565345060c2286.png

Phil, for balanced throws those bogie centres should be a scale 44ft 6in or 178mm apart. How "far in" they look will also depend on the bogie wheelbase, which doesn't affect the centres at all other than in some extreme cases of short coaches with long wheelbase bogies, where the centres would have to be closer together to stop the bogies sticking out past the headstocks.

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