RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 29, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 29, 2011 Not off topic - we all love westerns. 3.10 to Yuma is a great film. The intro - drip from the water tower and buzzing fly - fantastic!! Ok, apparently I'm thinking about the wrong film. The fly and dripping water tower are apparently (according to Old Gringo's better half) is "once upon a time in the west".... As I said in a n email - she needs to get out more and I need to pay attention Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gwinnett Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Found this on Amazon last night: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Asemble-Western-Frontier-Assemble-Buildings/dp/0486237362/ref=pd_rhf_p_t_1 Probably too developed for your needs but might act as place-holders whilst you build the "real thing". Also I thought other folk might be interested and this seemed as good a place as any to post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Gringo Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I think what you see in Whitewater is going to be pretty much what you get. If Whitewater was a bigger town there would be streets or at least flat spots, scars on the earth where buildings and roads once were. I don't see any. I'm thinking at most a general store, some cattle pens, a couple houses for railroad workers, a water tower, some section buildings and a depot. In 1919 I'd be suprised if the only electricity in Whitewater was whatever the rairoad brought in to serve the depot and telegraph system. Hi Dave, Apologies for not replying sooner and I hope that you are still following our rambling thread. What you describe is exactly what we were hoping too find and pretty much what we intend to build - plus maybe some extra locomotive facilities at a later date. For operation: I was going to assume that the branch trains to Fierro, Tyrone and Santa Rita might be "Mixed Trains Daily" and only traffic to Silver City was important enough to carry on through Whitewater, after stopping to drop off passengers. I imagined that freight traffic might follow the same sort of pattern, using the small yard for transfers, as much as deliveries for the small railroad community at Whitewater. Output from the mines would pass through heading south and east. According to one of the sources I've read, Iron ore travelled from Fierro to Pueblo in northern N.M., quite a long haul but all on ATSF metals. I'm also assuming that most ATSF locomotives would use coal from the mines owned by the road near Raton ? Although by 1919, oil firing had been in use for some time, hopefully more on the S.P. power ? Your comment about electricity is interesting. Do you think then that there would be a telegraph line and a pole line for electricity following the trackside up from Deming ? Thanks again for your interest, it is appreciated. Regards, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Just come across this thread http://www.the-gauge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=3983 - Not sure if they grow at the altitude your layout is set, but they might give you ideas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 30, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2011 Found this on Amazon last night: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Asemble-Western-Frontier-Assemble-Buildings/dp/0486237362/ref=pd_rhf_p_t_1 Probably too developed for your needs but might act as place-holders whilst you build the "real thing". Also I thought other folk might be interested and this seemed as good a place as any to post. Gosh, Amazon really does sell everything! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 30, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2011 Just come across this thread http://www.the-gauge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=3983 - Not sure if they grow at the altitude your layout is set, but they might give you ideas Will be an interesting one to keep an eye on. I'm already preparing myself for having to do scenics that are a little out of the norm for the UK. Am I right in reading that that site is all G Scale? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 No Chris it is all gauges - rarely see a G gauge on there, or other mainstream sites though - most modellers on there are HO ( as it is a US site, but there are N-scalers(US) and the occasional Z or O on there. The Gauge (aka "BIG BLUE")was on another site that got bought up by Zealot.com who wanted to combine it into an all-modelling site with ads - it stayed on there until the guys who run it got fed up with hassle and attempted moderation by people who were businessmen( people being thrown off because they didn't like the system changes) rather than modellers, and set up the current site. AFAIR no-one was contacted to try to steal members, but word spread very rapidly, people posted that they had had enough and were withdrawing their membership, and about 98% of the original members followed them across. Zealot.com were left to get on with it - There is some more info if you are interested here http://www.the-gauge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3780 There are some top-class modellers on Big Blue. Kevin (Nachoman) is based in Arizona so can probably give you tips about desert scenery for there and New Mexico Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 You have to be careful with vegetation in these areas - I think New Mexico is termed "High Desert" like Northern Arizona (i.e. No natural Saguaro Cacti - that I saw anyway). Saguaro's (for example) disappear from nature quite quickly when driving from Phoenix to Flagstaff (approx 5,000 feet higher) - I40 from Flagstaff to Albuquerque seemed to follow a contour line (but I'm not certain) then slightly higher from Albuquerque to Santa Fe itself. That's as far north as I've been in New Mexico. Trust this helps a little..... Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 30, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2011 Am I allowed to post photos of the mock up yet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 I don't know if you gents have seen this yet but the 2011 Model Railroad Planning (special issue by Model Railroader / Kalmbach) has an article called "Turning the clock back to 1895". This is a layout in progress about a shortline in California that was ultimately absorbed by the SP called the Stockton & Copperopolis RR. There was some interesting discussion of what kind of research was involved. I think it's a bit more Victorial-era / guilded age looking than your planned 1919 layout, but it might be worth a look. There's a very nice flush deck, bow-string truss bridge picture to open the article. Also see this website. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 31, 2011 Share Posted January 31, 2011 Picked up MR Jan 2011 today - there is an article about a model of ythe Goldfield & Hngtown RR - which covers scenery in Eastern California and Nevada, with photos showing semi-arid high desert scrub, that might be useful to you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted January 31, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2011 Picked up MR Jan 2011 today - there is an article about a model of ythe Goldfield & Hngtown RR - which covers scenery in Eastern California and Nevada, with photos showing semi-arid high desert scrub, that might be useful to you I suspect this may now be on John's shopping list for Smiths... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Apologies for not replying sooner and I hope that you are still following our rambling thread. Not a problem, I had a little medical issue and spent the weekend in the ICU, so I wouldn't have read it anyway. 8-) For operation: I was going to assume that the branch trains to Fierro, Tyrone and Santa Rita might be "Mixed Trains Daily" and only traffic to Silver City was important enough to carry on through Whitewater, after stopping to drop off passengers. The 1928 Official Railway Guide shows several trains serving your area. #17 and #18 are trains from Ricon (jct with the line to El Paso) to Silver City and return. Leaves Rincon at 8am, lays over a couple hours at Silver City and then runs back to Rincon. #17 #18 800a Rincon 810p 855 Nutt 722 940arv Deming 630lv 950lv 605arv 1007 Ocho 550 1028 spalding 535 1043 Faywood 522 1110 Whitewater 510 1140 Hawkins 432 1150a Silver City 425p The other train was a little more complicated. It operated as a series of 6 trains, running out of Silver City to Whitewater, then up the branch to Santa Rita and on to Fierro, then back to Silver City. So it would operate as trains #48, 51, 53, 54, 51, 52, 47. The funky order was because the train changed directions. #47 #48 430p Whitewater 1145a 518 Hawkins 1058 530p Silver City 1050a #51 #52 1205p Whitewater 345p 1230 Hurley 320 1250 Bayard 259 1255arv Hanover jct 150 lv Hanover Jct 205 Hanover 238 215 Fierro 225 #53 #54 1255p Hannover Jct 150p 101 Cobre 145 120p Santa Rita 130p The train leaves Silver City as #48 at 1050am, runs down to Whitewater and turns the corner on the wye running up towards Fierro as #51. On the northward trip the train heads off on the branch to Santa Rica as #53, then returns as #54. Back at Hanover Jct it resumes its schedule north as #51. When it reaches Fierro, it turns as #52 and runs back to Whitewater. Note it doesn't even stop at Hanover Jct on the southward trip. When it gets to Whitewater, it turns the corner and head back northward to Silver City as #47. The freight operation would be probably the same. Solid ore and "through" trains for Fierro or Silver City would operate out of Ricon. Local freights would operate out of Silver City and work the various branches. Probably all that happened at Whitewater was to "block swap", where a local between silver City and Fierro might drop some outbound cars at Whitewater for a through train to pick up. And a through train for silver City could drop cars at Whitewater for the local to carry to Fierro. I doubt that Whitewater originated or terminated more than a couple cars a week, all the business was cars going between the branches. Your comment about electricity is interesting. Do you think then that there would be a telegraph line and a pole line for electricity following the trackside up from Deming ? Yes. They would need a telegraph line to Silver City, Santa Rica and Fierro. Deming probably wasn't a terminus, it was probably just a stop on the line to Ricon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 That didn't format very well. The lefthand numbers are the northward times. In the middle are the station names. The righthand numbers are the southward times. Standard US timetable format. It should look something like this: #47_______________________ #48 430p_____Whitewater________1145a 518______Hawkins___________1058 530p_____Silver City_______1050a p = pm a = am arv = arrive lv = leave This also answers another one of your questions, based on the short times between stations and "long" run of the train, I doubt either one was a mixed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Gringo Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Hi Dave, Thanks very much for the new information. It's great to have some solid details on which to base our operations on. I'm thinking that by 1928, the "boom years" of Silver City would have passed some time ago and the branch is settling into "old age" by then. From Myrick's book I've read that the section beyond Burro Junction to Tyrone had already been closed in the early 1920s (although the mines and branch have since been reopened in modern times). By setting the operation in 1919, I was hoping to run a mixed trip up to Tyrone, to add another train to our service pattern. Sorry to keep on asking questions, but am I right in thinking that all the freight and mine workings woulld run as extras to the timetable, on an "as required" basis ? Hope you're feeling better very soon - thanks once again for staying with our thread and no rush for any answers. All the very best, John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 In the history of Hurley though it does mention that circa 1910 there were coaches left at Whitewater and added to the freight train up to Hurley to deal with the number of folk moving into the town at that time. With those passenger times it would be logical for the Deming-Silver City train to drop a passenger car at Whitewater to be picked up by #51 and vice versa if the same large numbers of passengers were moving - although a change of trains I guess would suffice. That the schedules seem to allow for that connecting move in both directions suggest it was planned that way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Gringo Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Picked up MR Jan 2011 today - there is an article about a model of ythe Goldfield & Hngtown RR - which covers scenery in Eastern California and Nevada, with photos showing semi-arid high desert scrub, that might be useful to you Yes, thanks Jack, I have acquired a copy of January MR and had a look at this feature. And thanks also Ozexpatriate, I saw the advert for the Great Model Railroads 2011 in November's MR, but I've not seen it on sale yet. Perhaps, it's not reached Stafford yet ! Somebody might even have it on sale at our model railway exhibition taking place this weekend. I've managed to get copies of the last five years GMR's and they've been well worth a look as there's been some superb layouts in them. Thanks both for your continued interest in our project. All the best, John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Gringo Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Thanks Martyn for post 141, More great information to help us develop some interesting services for our "two rusty streaks in the desert". All the best, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 John - if no luck with the exhibition - google up SPV 01227 452288, and talk to the nice helpful lady there - it has been out for a while Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 I'm thinking that by 1928, the "boom years" of Silver City would have passed some time ago and the branch is settling into "old age" by then. Maybe, maybe not. The 1893 ORG lists only the "Deming and Silver City Branch" #821____________________#822 1040a______Rincon_______115p 1240arv____Deming_______1140Lv 110plv__________________1125arv 235________Hudson_______1010 300________Whitewater___945 400________Silver City__855a That schedule looks like the train spent the night at Silver City. No other branches are listed. Note the 1928 schedule is much faster 3'50", making the complete round trip in 12'10" vs. 5'20" one-way and the layover on the 1893 schedule. From Myrick's book I've read that the section beyond Burro Junction to Tyrone had already been closed in the early 1920s (although the mines and branch have since been reopened in modern times). By setting the operation in 1919, I was hoping to run a mixed trip up to Tyrone, to add another train to our service pattern. The 1928 railroad atlas shows the Tyrone line, but lists it as SP. Sorry to keep on asking questions, but am I right in thinking that all the freight and mine workings would run as extras to the timetable, on an "as required" basis ? Really the only way to know that would be to find an employee timetable from that era, the SF historical society might be able to help there. All trains carrying passengers would be first class trains. My guess is that the daily local freights would be on the timetable as 3rd class trains and the rest would be extras. Unfortunately my ETT collection is mostly post 1950's and by then the majority of freights were run as extras. Hope you're feeling better very soon - thanks once again for staying with our thread and no rush for any answers. Thanks! Not a problem. I'm one of those wierd guys who actually likes research. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 In the history of Hurley though it does mention that circa 1910 there were coaches left at Whitewater and added to the freight train up to Hurley to deal with the number of folk moving into the town at that time. With those passenger times it would be logical for the Deming-Silver City train to drop a passenger car at Whitewater to be picked up by #51 and vice versa if the same large numbers of passengers were moving - although a change of trains I guess would suffice. That the schedules seem to allow for that connecting move in both directions suggest it was planned that way. I can see dropping a passenger car if there were a lot of people, they probably only kept a couple cars at Silver City, so if there were a "lot" of people moving the normal consist would quickly run out of seats. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 And thanks also Ozexpatriate, I saw the advert for the Great Model Railroads 2011 in November's MR, but I've not seen it on sale yet. Perhaps, it's not reached Stafford yet ! Somebody might even have it on sale at our model railway exhibition taking place this weekend. I've managed to get copies of the last five years GMR's and they've been well worth a look as there's been some superb layouts I'm not sure whether Great Model Railroads 2011 is published yet - I don't think I've either seen or ordered it. It is Model Railroad Planning 2011 that is available and has the 1895 article. They are similar special editions but naturally there is more focus on layout stories in the Great Model Railroads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Take a look at this: http://cgi.ebay.com/1910-Santa-Fe-Employee-Time-Tables-Reprint-/280385811507?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item41484bf433 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gwinnett Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I'm not sure whether Great Model Railroads 2011 is published yet - I don't think I've either seen or ordered it. It is Model Railroad Planning 2011 that is available and has the 1895 article. They are similar special editions but naturally there is more focus on layout stories in the Great Model Railroads. GMR 2011 is out - has a Delaware & Hudson loco on the cover. Haven't seen MRP 2011 yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 3, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 3, 2011 We'll be a bit quiet over the next few days as we're off to the Stafford Show. Parts of the layout will be there 'under construction', so come and say hello if you can. We'll post some photos after the show next week. Dave, John says thanks for the link above - he'll look in his piggy bank! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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