Once Upon a Time.... in the West

[shortliner]

Yes - but the RW should have been held here in the Highlands - Blue skies, no clouds, warm, sun-shining, I think it must be summer!

[alastairq]

take a bit longer for the crowds to get from Trafalgar Square to the Highlands....

 

 

we had a bit of rain here earlier on...as soon as I realised, rushed out to squirt some car shampoo onto the car roof....damned if I'm going to wash the thing when mother nature does it for free...

 

mustn't waste this freebie public holiday, do some modelling...

[Old Gringo]

Well guys, I think it's really magic that a thread headed up "Once upon a time" gets three mentions of the fairy story that is the Royal Wedding!

The first mention was a while back by Pete (Trisonic) and then most appropriately today, by Jack (Shortliner) and Alistairq. Earlier we've had mentions of rude cacti (by F-unit-mad), then ladies by Ian (Oldddudders) and tumbleweeds by Chris and Ozexpatriate. But now we must be getting towards the bottom of the pile with "doghouses and dunnies" ! (posts 222 & 223) Where next for the roller coaster of crazy stuff finding a home on this thread ?

By the way, "doghouse" is also U.S. railroad slang for a caboose (that's a guard's van over on this side of the pond).

And a "dog-catcher" (or "chaser") is a member of a crew sent to relieve another crew that had been "outlawed" - that is overtaken on the road by the sixteen hour law ("dog/hog law"), which prohibited the first crew from moving the train. Information straight out of "The Language of the Railroader" by Ramon F. Adams, University of Oklahoma Press, 1977.

Have a great Bank Holiday weekend,

All the best, John.

[2ManySpams]

See, I told you not to give him ideas.....

[dave1905]

Well guys, I think it's really magic that a thread headed up "Once upon a time" gets three mentions of the fairy story that is the Royal Wedding!

I think the British Royal family should be ecstatic. Over the last several months that have been dozens of large noisy crowds marching on the palaces in assorted capitols and so far this was the only one that was happy. Nobody does pomp and ceremony better than you Brits (and you have way cool uniforms).

 

By the way, "doghouse" is also U.S. railroad slang for a caboose (that's a guard's van over on this side of the pond).

True but the most common meaning of "doghouse" is a small compartment on the deck of a tender for the head brakeman to ride in.

 

And a "dog-catcher" (or "chaser") is a member of a crew sent to relieve another crew that had been "outlawed" - that is overtaken on the road by the sixteen hour law ("dog law"), which prohibited the first crew from moving the train. Information straight out of "The Language of the Railroader" by Ramon F. Adams, University of Oklahoma Press, 1977.

Lots of synonyms for that activity (hoglaw, dog catch, recrew, louse, drag-in, dead crew, etc.)

 

Its also "hog law" not "dog law". US Federal law regulated how long cattle could be kept in a car until they had to be unloaded to feed and water them. The exception was for hogs that could be fed and watered in the car. So the Federal hours of service (which applies to every crew, not just the first crew) that regulated how long a crew could work on a train was called the "hog law".

 

It started at 16 hours, went to 14 hours and then 12 hours in the 1970's. Over the last 5 years it has gotten very complicated with regard to how much rest the crews get, and when they have to be off the train, but the hours on duty remains 12 hours. The hours of service for signal maintainers is also 12 hours and for dispatchers and operators it is 12 hours unless there is more than one shift at that location then its 9 hours.

[shortliner]

So, John - what is the current state of affairs with the layout?

[Old Gringo]

Well Jack (and others following our ramble way out west), progress came to an abrupt halt after the layout's first outing at the Stafford show in February.

 

After the exhibition, we compared what we'd built, which was a considerable pile of lumber, covered with quite a lot of polystyrene and track (all layed during the two day event), with the suggestions appearing on this thread. I brought the whole lot back home and stacked everything in my shed.

 

As you can see from those earlier photographs, the original track plan had involved quite a lot of engineering woodwork to achieve the different levels for the small yard at the front and the canyon area. Plus, as originally drawn up, the plan was that the layout should fit in my garage, as well as be portable for exhibitions. Hence, 4 ft. x 2 ft. sections, each with folding legs, etc., and a roundy-roundy design.

 

However, although It's still my long-term intention to use it as a circular garage layout, we all liked the idea of including the wye, and it also made lots of sense to extend the passing track. So, if we were going to add the wye, we might as well add a staging area at both ends for exhibition use, but this would make the layout a lot longer.

 

After a lot of head-scratching, Damian and I got together over a weekend in April and ripped up some of the newly laid track. We then rebuilt part of the right-hand station board and relaid a longer passing track. Then I drew up "version x + 1" of the plan, which involved adding the wye and modifying the canyon area. Chris and Damian have provisionally put a "rubber-stamp" on these modifications and during the summer, we'll add another couple of boards as well as moving the trestle bridge slightly further up the line towards Silver City. In fact Chris might even post a picture of the plan, in between painting ceilings and "Spamcans"!

 

Right at the moment, Damian is fitting end protective boards (ready for travelling) to the main four sections, before adding the electrics. Then the boards will return to me for ballasting, one of the tasks that I actually enjoy. Currently, Chris is busily involved in decorating his house, but will be starting on the desert areas and the canyon as soon as time permits.

 

Over the last few years, I've been collecting some locomotives and rolling stock and intend to start weathering it, when I can pluck up the courage to put brush and powders to the pristine models, still in their boxes. You all know what it's like putting that first mucky blob onto a spotless locomotive - there's no going back!

 

So, that's the story so far. More news, or perhaps even a photo, when there's something good to see.

 

All the best, John.

 

 

[2ManySpams]

No Spamcan painting so far this year, just a load of house building work to manage, DIY and now decorating and finishing off what the builders have nearly completed. Railway room should be ready for Scenicing John's layout in late June.....

[shortliner]

Why doers "real life" always interfere with what you actually want to do?

[Indomitable026]

John's on holiday at present, so now's a good time to sneak on some progress shots without him knowing.......

 

 

'First fix' wiring

 

 

 

'End protection'.

 

 

[F-UnitMad]

Why doers "real life" always interfere with what you actually want to do?

AMEN !!!

[2ManySpams]

Looking good D, looks like the board tops have had a good wash of 'yuck' - nice.

[Old Gringo]

D,

 

That just looks so good. I can't wait to get ballasting that track and weathering those rails.

 

All the best, John

[Old Gringo]

Bonjour everyone,

Just back from a few days holiday in northern France (billeted near Paris - weather good, food great, trains on time, brilliant!). Now whilst over there, bought a copy of Le Train - a magazine containing articles on prototype and model railways and fairly expensive for the amount of content but with great photos printed on "proper paper". I don't read French as well as I should, but there were so many features that I wanted to try to understand that I bought issue 277 - May 2011.

There were two articles at the top of my translating list: First an H0 scale Erie Railroad Triplex P1, 2-8-8-8-2 built by Baldwin in 1914 and modelled by MTH at 360mm long. What a beast and an engine akin to the Santa Fe's locomotive appearing earlier in this thread. And what a shame that - first, I can't afford one and second, we coudn't run one on our layout anyway! The other article that caught my eye was a diorama for "Rail Expo" by Robert Gesueli of First World War soldiers and rail mounted weapons as they were in 1914 and again in H0 scale. Robert had made every soldier individually, with red (or white) pantalons and blue overcoats, plus full kit as worn in the early months of WW1. I think the diorama will eventually go into a museum in Meaux, a town on the River Marne about 20 miles due east of Paris. Superb modelling.

In complete contrast, when I got back home yesterday, I bought the May edition of Model Railroader, in which there's a professionally built diorama (5' x 12') of the depot at Mineral Point, Wisconsin, about 160 miles west of Chicago. MR text says "Portraying the central portion of the village and the railroad yard as they appeared between 1917 and 1920" - which is our period for the Santa Fe project, the subject of this thread. All the structures are scratchbuilt and the automated operation uses Bachmann Spectrum 4-4-0 and 4-6-0 locomotives, relettered for the MP&N. This is something that I'd hoped to do for our layout, as the Bachmann locos look close to Santa Fe prototypes still in use around 1919. One cameo is of the town's volunteer firemen rescuing a cat from a tree, especially for younger visitors to the Mineral Point museum. I found it quite interesting to compare in print top quality U.S. and Continental H0 scale models of exactly the same time period.

Looking forward to RMweb open day; Better get on with some modelling! All the best, John.

[trisonic]

John,

 

Gordon S (he of Eastwood) owns one of those MTH Erie Triplex (with sound) he posted a video somewhere (but it may not have been his Triplex).......................

 

Best, Pete

[Old Gringo]

Thanks Pete. What a monster that locomotive is and great news that there's a U.S. (North American) Forum beginning on RMweb today.

Earlier in the week, I had a personal conversation with another RMweb member (Jonte) about Peco Code 83 track and my assessment of its running qualities. Apparently there have been reservations of the operation over the electrofrog variety of switches, which is the version that we have used on our layout.

My answer; I had to admit that we don't know exactly how our stock will run yet, because all we've done so far is lay the track and roll some wagons up and down, to check alignment, joints and levels.

As many RMweb members will know, the three of us involved in the layout are spread out across the middle of England and at present the main (four) depot area boards are being wired up at Damian's house (90 miles east of me). We aim to have something running by RMweb members' day (at Stafford in July) and that's when we'll find out whether the running quality of Peco Code 83 matches the superb look, the brand's overall reliability and the ease of laying. These were the qualities that made me want to build a layout with the product after we'd had the crazy idea of building "Once upon a time". Perhaps, had we not been in such a hurry to get going, I might have used the more appropriate code 70 rail, or less, in the sidings.

To test the layout, I've got a few steam locomotives, but Damian has both a steamer and a diesel unit, which I believe carries the Santa Fe blue and yellow livery. (It's a bit too early for our operating period, but I reckon it will get a run out now and again!). So, when we're wired I can give a reliable assessment of the track and we will all know whether it was the right operational as well as aesthetic choice. Fingers firmly crossed !

I was also asked a couple of months ago about what colour I was going to paint the track. Now, I have been told that in southern New Mexico, the rail doesn't rust but weathers with sand/rock dust, brake dust and general dirt. In most of the photos I've seen, the rail seems to be a pale fawn colour. Hence, I've used a sort of middle earth colour as a starting point. Before laying any turnouts, I painted all over the rails and ties (carefully - whilst sat in front of the telly watching my favourite westerns!) with slightly thinned Humbrol enamel number 72. For those interested you can check back through the posts of the layout at the February Stafford show, to see what the "first fix" of this colour looks like.

Once all the track is down and running, I'll finish painting the other rails and ties with the earth colour and then apply the ballast. Next, I'll go back over the ties, dry-brushing them with a light grey acrylic; and then again over some of the rails (and parts of the road-bed) with a diluted darker brown track colour (probably enamel based) - being careful not to over do it. I've got to do a test for my ballast colour for the main lines - probably a Woodland Scenics fine/medium gray, with a touch of buff mixed in. For the yards, I shall use silver sand sparingly, as I'm told that in many cases the ties may be quite exposed in some places and completely buried in others. Again fingers crossed that it looks like I want it to!

Then Chris gets a go with grass, tumbleweeds and all the stuff that gives a model its character.

Well, that's the programme coming up. Then I've got an Evergreen Hill designs, Branchline water tank kit to build, that my mate Phil just gave me. It's a really nice green cardboard box full of lots of very small pieces of wood.  Anyone built one ?

All the best, John.

[Guest jonte]

Thanks Pete. What a monster that locomotive is and great news that there's a U.S. (North American) Forum beginning on RMweb today.

 

Earlier in the week, I had a personal conversation with another RMweb member (Jonte) about Peco Code 83 track and my assessment of its running qualities. Apparently there have been reservations of the operation over the electrofrog variety of switches, which is the version that we have used on our layout.

 

My answer; I had to admit that we don't know exactly how our stock will run yet, because all we've done so far is lay the track and roll some wagons up and down, to check alignment, joints and levels.

 

As many RMweb members will know, the three of us involved in the layout are spread out across the middle of England and at present the main four depot area boards are being wired up at Damian's house (90 miles east of me). We aim to have something running by RMweb members’ day (at Stafford in July) and that's when we'll find out whether the running quality of Peco Code 83 matches the “superb lookâ€, the brand’s overall reliability and the ease of laying. These were the qualities that made me want to build a layout with the product after we'd had the crazy idea of building “Once upon a timeâ€. Perhaps, had we not been in such a hurry to get going, I might have used the more appropriate code 70 rail, or less, in the sidings.

 

To test the layout, I've got a few steam locomotives, but Damian has both a steamer and a diesel unit, which I believe carries the Santa Fe blue and yellow livery. (It’s a bit too early for our operating period, but I reckon it’ll get a run out now and again!). So, when we're wired I can give a reliable assessment of the track and we will all know whether it was the right operational as well as aesthetic choice. Fingers firmly crossed !

 

I was also asked a couple of months ago about what colour I was going to paint the track. Now, I have been told that in southern New Mexico, the rail doesn't rust but weathers with sand/rock dust, brake dust and general dirt. In most of the photos I’ve seen, the rail seems to be a pale fawn colour. Hence, I’ve used a sort of middle earth colour as a starting point. Before laying any turnouts, I painted all over the rails and ties (carefully - whilst sat in front of the telly watching my favourite westerns!) with slightly thinned Humbrol enamel number 72. For those interested you can check back through the posts of the layout at the February Stafford show, to see what the "first fix" of this colour looks like.

 

Once all the track is down and running, I'll finish painting the other rails and ties with the earth colour and then apply the ballast. Next, I’ll go back over the ties, dry-brushing them with a light grey acrylic; and then again over some of the rails (and parts of the road-bed) with a diluted darker brown “track†colour (probably enamel based) - being careful not to over do it. I’ve got to do a test for my ballast colour for the main lines – probably a Woodland Scenics fine/medium gray, with a touch of buff mixed in. For the yards, I shall use silver sand sparingly, as I’m told that in many cases the ties may be quite exposed in some places and completely buried in others. Again fingers crossed that it looks like I want it to!

 

Then Chris gets a go with grass, tumbleweeds and all the stuff that gives a model its character.

 

Well, that’s the programme coming up. Then I’ve got an Evergreen Hill designs, Branchline water tank kit to build, that my mate Phil just gave me. It’s a really nice green cardboard box full of lots of very small pieces of wood. Anyone built one ?

 

All the best, John.

 

Thanks once again for your honest opinion and track weathering techniques. Thoroughly enjoyed our earlier conversation via PM too.

 

Best wishes,

 

Jon.

[trisonic]

I tried to send out Invites to the new USA & Canadian Railroads Group today but it was very time consuming. I found I was frequently trying to send an invite to someone who had already joined! Anyway everyone with an interest is welcome!

 

 

I haven't seen the Peco Code 83 out here. I'm planning on using the ME Code 70 on a "growable" plank type layout later this year - their problem is they only make a #6 turnout. I don't like the actual pointblades on the Peco Code 75.

 

Otherwise I'll make my own. I just received some natty turned roller gauges from Steve Hatch's Railway Engineering website.

 

Cheers, Pete.

[Guest jonte]

I tried to send out Invites to the new USA & Canadian Railroads Group today but it was very time consuming. I found I was frequently trying to send an invite to someone who had already joined! Anyway everyone with an interest is welcome!

 

 

I haven't seen the Peco Code 83 out here. I'm planning on using the ME Code 70 on a "growable" plank type layout later this year - their problem is they only make a #6 turnout. I don't like the actual pointblades on the Peco Code 75.

 

Otherwise I'll make my own. I just received some natty turned roller gauges from Steve Hatch's Railway Engineering website.

 

Cheers, Pete.

D'you know, I looked everywhere for roller gauges when I was building my points - I even wrote to the NMRA who could only suggest those square ones sold by Walthers (McComey type), which is how I ended up using slivers of aluminium as gauges. They've worked so far with my only loco and most of my stock, but some of the stock refuses to go through without swaying, although this is because the wheelsets for some reason on the offending items are set at the narrowest tolerance of the standards causing them to collide with the check rail and NOT the vee nose (can't win). Plus, it would have been a darned sight easier with the roller gauges to hold the track in place while soldering.

 

Still, better late than never - I'll have to order some - plus some Code 70 rail, of course Does anybody know if they'll work with the Code 70 rail supplied by C&L?

 

Thanks for sharing, Pete, and good luck with the track.

 

Jonte

[alastairq]

Dunno whether the following appeals to all those happily in love with NMRA standards, but...........................................

 

what about building pointwork using 16.2mm gauge, as per OO-SF?

 

Plain track can be whatever one chooses......16.5mm gauge, or thereabouts......but the issue of getting wheelsets [set to nominal NMRA standards]....through crossings without lurching may possibly be addressed by using 16.2 mm gauge standards....

 

bearing in mind, the plus side of 16.2mm gauge standards are, much finer-looking check and wing rail gaps, improved crossing gaps....without the need to alter any [NMRA] wheelsets....thus..one achieves the appearance, and running quality, of a finescale standard...with the universality of being able to run any Tom, Dick or Harriet's wheelsets smoothly without alteration.

 

I don't think even an ardent observer would be able to tell, with any degree of certainty, that the actual track gauge at a turnout is 0.3 mm narrower....

 

especially as prototype track 'gauge' is but a nominal figure anyway........

 

worth a thought??

[Old Gringo]

Hi all,

 

Following on from the previous half dozen posts and the discussion about the merits of different track standards, (and I appreciate that Pete, and perhaps many other modellers of U.S. and Canadian prototypes, have not yet seen this brand), for those who have had experience of Peco Code 83 H0 track - how do you rate it ?

 

I'm already committed to the product for our layout (because I picked up a number 8 switch and was immediately hooked) and I have no connection with the company or any other sales outlet, but I'm interested to know what others think, or have experienced with it.

 

Might this (or track standards) make an appropriate topic for the new group to discuss ? Or has it already been done ?

 

All the best, John.

[trisonic]

John,

Why don't you start a new topic in the USA & Canada Railroad Group?

 

Best, Pete.

[trisonic]

D'you know, I looked everywhere for roller gauges when I was building my points - I even wrote to the NMRA who could only suggest those square ones sold by Walthers (McComey type), which is how I ended up using slivers of aluminium as gauges. They've worked so far with my only loco and most of my stock, but some of the stock refuses to go through without swaying, although this is because the wheelsets for some reason on the offending items are set at the narrowest tolerance of the standards causing them to collide with the check rail and NOT the vee nose (can't win). Plus, it would have been a darned sight easier with the roller gauges to hold the track in place while soldering.

 

Still, better late than never - I'll have to order some - plus some Code 70 rail, of course Does anybody know if they'll work with the Code 70 rail supplied by C&L?

 

Thanks for sharing, Pete, and good luck with the track.

 

Jonte

 

I did some research earlier because I was looking to do P4 using American sourced rail - apparently there is no compatability between American and British because of the difference between 4mm and 3.5mm - it's a width thing, I think. Steven Hatch supplies four at a time but expect to wait a month as they are lathe turned and he makes them from Code 55 to Code 83. If you go to the Fast Track site in Canada there is a page where they do a comparo of various coded rail.

 

Best, Pete.

 

 

 

[Guest jonte]

Dunno whether the following appeals to all those happily in love with NMRA standards, but...........................................

 

what about building pointwork using 16.2mm gauge, as per OO-SF?

 

Plain track can be whatever one chooses......16.5mm gauge, or thereabouts......but the issue of getting wheelsets [set to nominal NMRA standards]....through crossings without lurching may possibly be addressed by using 16.2 mm gauge standards....

 

bearing in mind, the plus side of 16.2mm gauge standards are, much finer-looking check and wing rail gaps, improved crossing gaps....without the need to alter any [NMRA] wheelsets....thus..one achieves the appearance, and running quality, of a finescale standard...with the universality of being able to run any Tom, Dick or Harriet's wheelsets smoothly without alteration.

 

I don't think even an ardent observer would be able to tell, with any degree of certainty, that the actual track gauge at a turnout is 0.3 mm narrower....

 

especially as prototype track 'gauge' is but a nominal figure anyway........

 

worth a thought??

 

Most certainly, Alistair; especially as there's no waiting for items to arrive from the States involved. I remember Dave Long making mention of OO-SF in a previous post.

 

Any links or advice you could dissemniate in relation to gauges, their availability and from where they can be purchased?

 

Thanks again,

 

Jonte

[Guest jonte]

Hi all,

 

Following on from the previous half dozen posts and the discussion about the merits of different track standards, (and I appreciate that Pete, and perhaps many other modellers of U.S. and Canadian prototypes, have not yet seen this brand), for those who have had experience of Peco Code 83 H0 track - how do you rate it ?

 

I'm already committed to the product for our layout (because I picked up a number 8 switch and was immediately hooked) and I have no connection with the company or any other sales outlet, but I'm interested to know what others think, or have experienced with it.

 

Might this (or track standards) make an appropriate topic for the new group to discuss ? Or has it already been done ?

 

All the best, John.

Sounds a great idea, John.

Sort of thing that would appeal to me, anyway.

 

Best wishes,

 

Jon