dave1905 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 I'm suprised you didn't do something more in line with the prototype track arrangement. You have the information and it wouldn't take a significant change in the track plan (not mention more functional. As it is its a pretty much one train at a time layout. With a few changes you could actually make a meet between trains. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indomitable026 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Somewhere, I've a proper drawing that Damian built the boards from, but can I find it ? Can I heckaslike ! However, the mock-up is pretty much spot on for what we're intending to build and exhibit at the Stafford Show, in February 2012. First time out, it will operate as an end-to-end layout, with the mineral branch (hopefully) also ready for traffic. Trains will work up from Deming (staging yard) entering the layout from the right. After arrival at Whitewater some will travel on to Silver City (staging yard) passing over the trestle bridge on the left. Ore trains (and returning empties) will use the branch to the mines at Fierro and Santa Rita - the track now upgraded to allow bigger locomotives. Switching will take place in the small yard and local traffic will be despatched up the branch, or occasionally towards Silver City, but bound for the (S.P. controlled) branch to the new town of Tyrone. The train movements outlined by Dave1905 in an earlier post will also operate, but will involve reversal (and maybe a possible engine change) at Whitewater. Well, that's the plan and how we intend to operate. A lot busier than the real thing I'm sure. Comments welcome. All the best, John Theres a plan on my garage wall, I used it to build the boards. Is that the plan your'e after? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Here would be my suggestion Lots more to do or ability to do and its closer to the prototype. Changes in red. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 13, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 13, 2011 Dave, it's funny that you've drawn a wye on the LHS as that's what we added to the layout last weekend. John was always keen on the wye in the prototype location and he's now got one.... Allbeit on the exhibition format of the layout and not the form that has to fit in his garage (once the Ford Pop has gone). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 13, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 13, 2011 Theres a plan on my garage wall, I used it to build the boards. Is that the plan your'e after? Only if it's attached to your garage wall with 6" nails.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 13, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 13, 2011 So back in May 2010 Damian got a load of timber (lumber) and got out his favourite big nasty power tools and did some baseboard (benchwork) construction. Here are the fruits of his labours: (In the photo above, nailed to the wall, is John's long lost track plan ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 13, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 13, 2011 And then in January 2011 we met up and... John and Damian laid cork, discussed the track alignment and Kaydee magnet locations... and I started on the scenery. We also spent a fair amount of time talking about the timber trestle (following comments on this thread); the height of the backscene and the supports for the lighting rig. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 13, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 13, 2011 And in tomorrow's post some photos of what we did at the Stafford show.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 13, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 13, 2011 Here would be my suggestion Lots more to do or ability to do and its closer to the prototype. Changes in red. Mmm that looks good Dave. I suspect everything apart from the reversal of the turnouts to the lower sidings would be possible. Main advantage would be the longer passing loop (siding). One question: Is there a rule that the main route through a station must have the straight route through a turnout? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 On the prototype, the main track will have the straight route most of the time. On a model. its your choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 I think Dave's "loop* round the back of the depot" would also be a nice to have - that seems to have been a bit of a Santa Fe signature track arrangement, it crops up at quite a few places, although it seems to dissapear as towns grow. These old shots of Baring MO (one circa 1900, one circa 1940) show the low-key "round the back, track" (okay they're from Missouri not New Mexico, but bear with me!) - looks like that track aligned at combination depots with a freight platform at the rear of the building making it effectively a double-ended freighthouse track? http://wablevins.tripod.com/baringdepot1900.jpg http://wablevins.tripod.com/baringdepot.jpg A passing siding I think would be a fairly fundamental thing to include, I wouldn't worry overly about which of those two tracks is the main (I doubt it would have to be the one next to the depot) as long as you decide that one of them is - and whilst mostly the main line would be the straight route it's one of those things where i'm sure you can find an exception - just like you can over here! Looking interesting though. B) Now you're including the wye to allow reversals i'm sure you'll get some disbelieving comments from the UK crowd who aren't used to seeing passenger trains arriving at stations in reverse (unless they've been watching Portillo!) (* That would be loop in UK terms.... ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted February 14, 2011 Share Posted February 14, 2011 Came across this if it helps with the Depot/Freight house http://research.atsf...base/000299.htm http://research.atsf...base/000142.htm http://research.atsf...base/000139.htm http://research.atsf...to/n-mexico.htm a search on Google for "Santa Fe combination depot and freight house" brings up some interesting pics Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 16, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 16, 2011 http://wablevins.tripod.com/baringdepot1900.jpg http://wablevins.tripod.com/baringdepot.jpg Martyn I can't get either of these links to work - just get a 'tripod' logo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 16, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 16, 2011 Came across this if it helps with the Depot/Freight house...... a search on Google for "Santa Fe combination depot and freight house" brings up some interesting pics Thanks Jack - some interesting shots there. We're toying with modelling the wooden depot building in the shots below in slightly run down state. It's not a ATSF building and a thought is to paint it plainly but weather worn, perhaps awaiting repainting in 'new' ATSF corporate colours. From some of the photos I'm guessing a stone / off white colour might be a good starting point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Sorry Chris, looks like the site doesn't like direct linking.... try here: http://wablevins.tripod.com/missouridiv.html About half way down the page, first one is "Baring MO looking westward circa 1900", second one is the link underneath it circa 1940. I've better shots that show the arrangement in books, but not online unfortunately But the basic arrangement is that the "main line" side of the building has a passenger platform, or at least a clear bit of dirt that acts as one - the rear of the building has a loading dock and acts as the freighthouse track. I think the second and third of Jack's links there show similar arrangements, although the first looks like it might be just a freighthouse? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted February 16, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 16, 2011 Ok, now had sign off from OG to post some of the photos we took at the show in Stafford nearly 2 weeks ago. First, here's a few taken as it arrived on the Friday lunchtime (via a very nice pub lunch....). The brown track lines are where John intends to lay track (give or take) and were put down to give the punters an idea of what we were up to. General view, legs and all of two of the boards View from the dry wash end View from other end A few more detailed shots of each of the front 4 boards. Track laying under way by Damian, with occasional finger poking and tutting assistance from John. The fragility of the tiny spikes holding the rail to the sleeper came as a bit of a surprise after years modelling UK track with substantial chairs. John in natural habitat - gassing to punters. At one point he got a fair crowd of insomniacs.. More progressing on making a mess with polystyrene. Not sure Damian was keen on the shed... Just to give the folk an idea... one of Johns old (wrong) trestles in place showing how the crossing could look. There's a strong chance that the centre 3 spans over the dry wash bed could be replaced by a girder. Time will tell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 Nice! B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Gringo Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 would a MDC/Roundhouse 2-6-2, altered to look a little bit more like the Santa Fe locos it supposedly represents, count? The honest answer Alistair is I'm not sure. I've not seen a MDC/Roundhouse 2-6-2, but if it's like the Bachmann model of a few years ago, I think it would look the part (unless you were an expert on Santa Fe "Prairies", of course). The problem with the Santa Fe's 2-6-2 fleet, of which there were 238 examples (according to E.D. Worley, Iron Horses of the Santa Fe Trail, SRHS, Dallas 1965) is that when built between 1901 and 1907, nearly all were compound locomotives. Worley says that the first three series were "built with the thought of high speed service in mind" and 237 of the 2-6-2s had 69 inch driving wheels, but, all were eventually rebuilt as two-cylinder simples, from 1910 onwards. However, it also looks like the 2-6-2s were soon ousted from the top-link jobs by Pacifics, built by Baldwin in 1903. The "Prairies" then appear to have found their niche working on services on the routes and branches of the mid-west States. Photographs I've seen show them in action from Illinois, through Kansas to northern Texas. It is possible that they might have made it as far as our "two streaks of rust" in the high desert of New Mexico, but I only know for certain that they were used on duties in the mid-west of the U.S.A. As yet we have little photographic evidence of what the ATSF actually used on the line in 1919, so I wait to be proved wrong! Thanks for the interest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Gringo Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 Apologies to everyone for lots more photographs of me appearing in the thread and sorry for not replying sooner. Thanks to Martyn (GloriousNSE) and Jack (Shortliner) for the great links in posts 186 and 187. It was nice to see in one link that the building at Silver City appeared to be a single storey Santa Fe No.3 depot, which is the kit we have for Whitewater. Thanks also to Dave1905 for taking the trouble to produce the revised plan in post 178, which over the past week I've studied at length and balanced against what we've already begun. As Chris has already mentioned in an earlier reply, one of the developments that we'd planned was to add the wye (triangular junction) onto the left hand end of the layout. This will involve constructing yet another couple of baseboards, but gives Chris a much bigger area in which to stack polystyrene and splosh plaster over! On the middle boards, that you can see in the photographs of the show, we feel that it is too difficult to change the aspects of the switching yard with its inclined access at the front of the board. Plus we would have a heck of a job taking up all those turnouts. However, lengthening the passing sidings on the main line and making some other adjustments to the right hand end makes such a lot of sense that we're going to make some changes in this area. In a couple of weeks time, we're hoping to have another "modelling weekend" and see what we can salvage, whilst applying ourselves to re-aligning the track on that board. Hopefully, my "compromise" based on Dave's idea will work with the Peco geometry and not too much code 83 will get trashed. I suppose that all depends on how much of a "weekend" we make it ? More to follow. Regards to all, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 I was mentioning your project to another ATSF modeler ("...Oh, he's modeling the horny toad." )and he happened to make a comment that that line would involve consolidations and a Pacific or prairie on the passenger trains. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dana Posted February 18, 2011 Share Posted February 18, 2011 dont forget these 3 References [edit] ATSF 3000 class ATSF 3000 class 2-10-10-2. The forward section of the boiler is actually a primitive superheater and feedwater heater. This class of ten 2-10-10-2 locomotives were actually rebuilt from more conventional 2-10-2 Baldwin-built locomotives by the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway in 1911. Although they appeared to have exceedingly long boilers, the barrel in front of the rear set of cylinders actually contained first a primitive superheater for further heating the steam before use; the steam was carried forward from the boiler proper by outside steam pipes as shown in the photograph. Also contained in this space was a reheater to give additional energy to the high-pressure exhaust before it was fed to the forward low-pressure cylinders. In front of that, there was a feedwater heater, a space where cold water from the tender could be warmed before being injected into the water proper. This worked similarly to the boiler itself; the firetubes passed through the feedwater tank. The experiment was decidedly unsuccessful, and the locomotives were rebuilt back to 2-10-2s during 1915–1918. [edit] Specifications Road numbers: 3000–3009 Driver diameter: 57 in (1.4 m) Weight: 616,000 lb (279,400 kg = 279.4 t) Tractive effort: 111,600 lbf (496 kN) Boiler pressure: 225 psi (1.55 MPa) Cylinder diameter: 28 in (710 mm) high pressure, 38 in (970 mm) low pressure Cylinder stroke: 32 in (810 mm) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Gringo Posted February 19, 2011 Share Posted February 19, 2011 I was mentioning your project to another ATSF modeler ("...Oh, he's modeling the horny toad." )and he happened to make a comment that that line would involve consolidations and a Pacific or prairie on the passenger trains. Hi Dave, Thanks for sticking with us and passing on the information from 'another ATSF modeler' - someone actually modeling the area not very far away from our prototype. I have read somewhere that the "Horny Toad" line was the route from Belen to El Paso, down along the Rio Grande and through Rincon (where the branch to Deming starts from). I already have a couple of consolidations and a Light 2-8-2. However, I was hoping that in 1919 the passenger and mixed turns on our "two streaks of rust" would still be in the hands of the tenwheeler type, or maybe even the "modern Americans" - both prototypes currently made by Bachmann. It's also good to have a recommendation that one of the 2-6-2s could be used in the southern part of New Mexico, because I'd not found a photograph of them in use further than Albuquerque, or across the border in northern Texas. And a Pacific too, now there's something to look out for, when funds improve! Now, regarding the 2-10-10-2 suggested by Dana, weren't they built especially for duties on the ATSF main line over Raton Pass ? What absolutely massive engines these must have been and so early in the 20th century, when over here in the U.K. we thought the Great Western Railway's "Great Bear" pacific (built 1908) was a really big engine. Luckily it seems that the huge 2-10-10-2s had all been rebuilt by our year of operation! But, I have my doubts that they'd have been passed for working over the bridges on our "branch of a branch" in the desert ! Thanks again for all the interest and information towards our project. All the best, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indomitable026 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Oih, Owd Grinder. Below are some pictures of the (ex Treneglos) spare boards you asked about. As you can see, they have cleaned up ok and in my view would be suitable for re-use. Also below are two pictures of Lyd you requested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Gringo Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Cheers D, The boards look good for the job and the photo of 'Lyd' is a cracker. What a smashing day that was. Are the boards 48 x 20 inches ? And can you send me the Lyd photo attached to an e-mail, please ? All the best, John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indomitable026 Posted February 23, 2011 Share Posted February 23, 2011 Cheers D, The boards look good for the job and the photo of 'Lyd' is a cracker. What a smashing day that was. Are the boards 48 x 20 inches ? And can you send me the Lyd photo attached to an e-mail, please ? All the best, John. The boards are 48" x 19 1/2 " !!!! Can't send pic's by email as i haven't got any, hence posting them on thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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