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BlackRat

Crime Prevention.........

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Night vision is very highly detailed, but looks monochrome. The camera has its own infra red emitter so that you could put it in a completely dark box and still see the interior clearly on the screen.

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I would be interested to know if private CCTV, that is capable of recording activity in the street, is actually legal in Britain. In Germany one is not allowed to set up any surveillance camera that has coverage of a public space.

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you register with ICO, and pay £35.00 a year in the UK, if your camera covers an area outside of your property, and you need to comply with the data protection act.

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I was under the impression that if the main focus of the camera is on private property, and it does not cover anyone else's private property then as long as the public space (in my case, a few feet of pavement around the edge of the property) that appears is incidental to the main focus, then it is allowed. After all, filming in a public place is completely legal, as an individual cannot expect to never appear in the background of other people's photographs or video. That was what I was told when I inquired.

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Reading up on this, it appears to be a bit of a minefield, with information from ICO contradicting what the Police told us and what the Police in general seem to be recommending. Filming some-one else's private property is an obvious no-no, and everything I read is quite clear on that. Covering areas like the footpath beyond property boundaries becomes awkward, thanks to European legislation on privacy. That said, it appears that it isn't an automatic breach of the DPA to capture this area as incidental to the main focus, especially if the legitimate aim is to combat anti-social behavior and vandalism.

 

I've spent a little while analyzing the images my cameras are taking, and have decided to adjust the angle that two of them point at. One covers part of the pavement at the front at the very top of frame, but captures a small patch of road in the top left corner. I will rotate the camera slightly to remove this. One side camera captures a few feet of the path down the side, and I might lower that one too, though it would mean that local goblins will be able to throw stones at will without fear of being caught. Go Europe for helping protect the scrotes. That said, there has never been a prosecution of a homeowner for capturing small areas of public pavement on their CCTV, and on at least one occasion I read the Police were happy to use footage so caught to help identify a hit and run incident.

 

Police around here seem quite keen for homeowners to have CCTV. After an arson attempt down the street, several terraced properties sprouted CCTV cameras covering the pavement and road area that the houses are built straight up to. It caught the arsonist when they came back to try their luck again. The Police secured a prosecution from the footage, and the cameras are still there recording.

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Hi Jenny,
 
The ico page https://ico.org.uk/for-the-public/cctv/ is pretty clear about their requirements, but I do not think that is any concern of the police, who may initially be happy to have from any camera whatever information they can get. However, I could see the situation of an astute defence lawyer querying the validity of any evidence that was covertly acquired, and possibly ico could pick up on that and take you to task for not registering, whatever. BUT, having done the best you can, minimized public coverage, etc. I expect you would be OK. Just my opinion, of course.

 

Of course, google street view doesn't have to comply with any of this - quite alright to mount a camera high off the roof of a car, peering over hedges, etc. into private property, publish on the web for all to see. You try the same thing with a step ladder and camera down your street - see what happens...

 

Best wishes,

 

Ray

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DONT rely on any information gleaned from plod on this, they are NOT the experts.

 

Be careful with the siting, very careful indeed, and if necessary seek professional advice or guidance, it may well be cheaper in the long term.

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Interesting discussion, I have taken note of the good ideas in here. 

 

A lot of modern CCTV systems include privacy screening software which overlays a grid on the camera image, you can then set which blocks record and which are effectively switched off. 

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I put my "home" address in by post code further up the road, or if the specific sat-nav requires a house number, put in a number 20 odd house down. It's near enough to get accurate travel times and traffic info for journey homes but not to identify my actual home address.

 

Doesn't this mean you are increasing someone else's risk?  And how do you know somebody else isn't using your address in the same way.  Probably ok to use a nearby commercial premises in this way; they've usually got pretty robust security anyway.

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Provided it isn't too far away, you could enter the address of the nearest police station or petrol station (usually lots of cameras to catch fuel theives and for recording number plates).

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I don't have a 'home' in my sat-nav, it has a 'favourites' list.

All the entries are by initials only, that includes all my family,

friends, work and leisure addresses.

So no-one can tell the difference between the pub where I

meet my old school mates once every few months, one of

my regular customers or my address!

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I think it’s terrible that people would steal at all, never mind locos and stock! The trains aren’t exactly cheap, so make sure they are safe!

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I am a security technician and systems surveyor  (Intruder Alarms / CCTV & Access Control) for a very large UK security company,  I wholeheartedly recommend the use of smartwater and the locks mentioned in this thread, I would also suggest the use of a monitored alarm system installed by a National Security Inspectorate (NSI) or the SSAIB member company or the very minimum a system that communicates to a mobile device as audible alarm only systems are next to useless unfortunately.

 

https://www.nsi.org.uk/

 

https://ssaib.org/

 

 

CCTV unless monitored is a very reactive method, I find that scumbags now expect CCTV and mask /hoodie / scarf up etc accordingly and unfortunately this is therefore inadmissable usually as the to identify an individual the require to be 120% of the monitor size, also avoid analouge cameras such as 700TVL , as High Definition Cameras of between 2 and 4 Megapixel are availble quite cheaply.

 

https://www.cctv-information.co.uk/i/Guidelines_for_Identification

 

I am happy to give free advice if required

 

Cheers

 

Steve

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Smartwater can be expensive

 

How would this work as a cheaper alternative...?

 

Select any selection of random paints you own, mix together to make your own blend, you could always add a random element (glitter say).

Apply a spot to each loco etc.

Keep the mixing pot as proof.

 

I cannot imagine anyone else coming up with a unique blend as your own.

You could always use a pen (normal household biro), dip in the paint and use it to write an ID number too, and maintain it in a spreadsheet somewhere, to ID loco to number.

Edited by adb968008

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Smartwater can be expensive

 

 

 

Mine was given away free, as a local crime prevention promo in the lobby of my local Tesco (other supermarkets are available)

Neil

Edited by neilkirby

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I would also suggest the use of a monitored alarm system installed by a National Security Inspectorate (NSI) or the SSAIB member company or the very minimum a system that communicates to a mobile device as audible alarm only systems are next to useless unfortunately.

 

 

I would dispute that they are "next to useless" - I have an "audible only" alarm that prevented anything being stolen during a break in at my home. The intruder broke in through a window, stepped straight into the detection zone of one of the sensors and fled immediately when the sounder went off, despite many things of value being within easy grabbing distance.

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I would disagree cctv is active method unless monitored, most good systems allow for trigger zones within the image and all my external cameras have these set so anyone crossing them sends me a message, I then look at the camera to see if action is required.

 

Smart water has been something I been thinking about

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On 09/01/2019 at 23:55, 57xx said:

 

I would dispute that they are "next to useless" - I have an "audible only" alarm that prevented anything being stolen during a break in at my home. The intruder broke in through a window, stepped straight into the detection zone of one of the sensors and fled immediately when the sounder went off, despite many things of value being within easy grabbing distance.

 

Audible alarms are great if they are loud enough.  I had a car alarm with two Fiamm wind tone horns under the driving seat. Believe me you wouldn't hang around with those sounding. Sounder position is crucial, the outside one just wind up the neighbours its the one(s) inside the property which cause the crims to leg it. Make sure the racket is unbearable.  Again from car alarms install a bespoke hard wired alarm not a bog standard very expensive "Wireless" professional alarm, ours gave a false alarm when the wiring burned through, the shop was on fire. Now that's a good failing.   The problem is the Crims have regular seminars, or "Sentences" where they meet up and swap info on alarms, as well as where to score etc and are generally up to speed on any new devices, as soon as they go on sale.  So b****er them up with something non standard.    For instance my "Vroon Bah" device would stop any car thief, it was just a flasher unit in the ignition circuit, as does a good old crook lok round the steering and brake pedal on a £80K Rage Rover.

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On 08/01/2019 at 12:15, neilkirby said:

 

Mine was given away free, as a local crime prevention promo in the lobby of my local Tesco (other supermarkets are available)

Neil

 

Oh that's what it was for! I drank mine - didn't make me any smarter!

 

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............. and don't forget to have your insurance up to date. Thanks to this thread, I recently did an audit of what I had in stock to estimate its value (I did a replacement value) and I was mortified to see just how much it would cost to replace on a like-for-like basis.

 

Next step is to take on board all the advice that has been given regarding security measures and getting the items secured.

 

Cheers,

 

Philip

 

 

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On 16/01/2011 at 21:26, BlackRat said:

Following from another thread where valuable stock has been stolen, some of you may find the following of use, the Police certainly will.

 

To EVERYONE OF YOU HERE..................If you already haven't:

 

1. Get a UV pen (your Neighbourhood Team will be able to supply you) and write your post code and house number UNDERNEATH your items of stock.

 

2. Get a cheap labeller (Lidls this week for a few quid) and do same re postcode and place INSIDE loco bodies etc. They will sit nicely inside the roof space etc.

 

3. Think about Smartwater or some other 'tagging' fluid.

 

4. If its in the garage/shed etc get a security light fitted, decent locks to British standard and even a small portable IR movement alarm, mine cost about a tenner and runs off a 9v battery.

 

5. If its kit built, scratch built, altered, weathered etc, well a picture speaks a thousand words, so take some!

 

Your local Neighbourhood Team can again help with security advice.

 

If you have anything of particular value, again notify the team and make them aware, get to know them and get a local number. Time is valuable and you can short cut the system if you know how!

 

Make a list of ALL items that are marked, tagged coded etc and keep it in a safe place.

 

You can do the same with wagons, vans (under the roof) coaching stock, controllers, buildings etc, it all adds up, most of you have hundreds if not thousands of pounds worth of valuable equipment and stock at home.

 

Try to keep the boxes seperate.

 

I cant promise you will get stock back if stolen, but we have property stores with literally tons of goods which we cant return as we have no idea who they belong to!

 

Its amazing what we have, from patio heaters to valuable paintings, from rare coins to model railway items!

 

We did have some gorgeous Aster locos etc, had them in store for ages, no idea where they came from, they weren't (in this force) reported lost or stolen.

 

With no tag, they are usually disposed of, and I cant t ell you how sad that is!

 

I personally seized a quantity of boxed OO and N during a drugs warrant, obviousloy stolen. The rascal hadn't a clue as to what they were so I seized them as possible stolen items.

 

I couldn't id the owner and no reports so the worse thing....... we have to give the property back!

 

its virtually impossible to indentify the owner of unidentifiable property!

Long time ago now, but i lost 2MT 46522 (green with bell), 8F, 2x Black 5, j94 unique black paint work, with name Warrington and BR I.D. as 68076, 2x 9F 92250 (ex evening star painted black) & 92221, 2x Hall 5997 Sparkford Hall (super detailed inc lamps with jewels in) and 5937 Kneller Hall all 00gauge all Hornby all uv marked motors, motion, wheels, and other places postcoded, NEVER HAD THEM BACK

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Marking items is a very good idea, but obviously the police can only return them to you if they are recovered, and sadly many aren't.  I know my local model railway shop also checks anything it's buys for second hand sale is not UV or otherwise marked, but obviously 'Bay can't provide this level of checking.  So marking is a last line of defence rather than a guaranteed method of recovering your stuff.  This doesn't mean it isn't worth doing! 

 

When marked items are recovered you stand a pretty good chance of getting them back, as I found with some hi-fi stuff stolen from my flats some years ago.

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Bike thieves reckon three things keep them out of sheds: a big dog loose in the garden, an alarm or CCTV.  There are easier pickings for them.

 

You can put the best padlock and hasp/staple on a shed door but it means nothing if there are strap hinges that can easily be unscrewed.  Use security screws or (better) a coach bolt in each half of each hinge.  At the end of the day, any wooden shed can be cut or smashed open but you can ensure it will be loud and obvious.

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A dog doesn't need to be loose in the garden all the time..

Our German Shepherd instinctually knows when there's unusual activity especially during the night, she'll bark aggressively which can be heard for quite a distance hopefully deterring any one. She has access to the whole house at night, so she can hear anyone approaching from any direction. My layout and stock is in a shed along side our bungalow close to the gable end so she will pick up ( smell, hearing ) on any unwanted activity yards away from our fence.

 

She is a pet and companion first but would do anything to protect what she perceives as her territory and family.

 

 

 

IMG_2015.JPG

Edited by Mr Pix
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