Styrofoam Baseboards ?

[Pete2210]

Hi Kallaroonian,

 

I've come into this thread a bit late but I did post some comments in an earlier thread, however I have used Evostick POLYURETHANE wood glue to secure the 6mm ply sides to my polyfoam boards and in a "Belt and Braces" move I screwed 100mm screws into the sides countersinking them into the ply, I just screwed them in until they "bite" job done. This time I have used 45mm Square timber which fits up through the boards so the tops of the legs are flush with the baseboard surface. I fitted some "stops" on the legs so that the ply edges rest on the stops, the legs are joined at the ends with 12mm ply. This is going to be a portable layout, but my US prototype layout is built of Poly/Styrofoam on three levels and has performed well over the last three years and I even used the foam as brackets, gluing them edge on to the walls with the polyurethane glue.

 

Hope this helps

 

Pete Williams

 

PS just on the off chance do you know a bloke by the name of Colin Gildersleve in Perth?

[number6]

Me too Pete, and it sounds like my process is very similar. I have been building very irregular shaped curved boards and this method suits the situation brilliantly. Cut the foam to fit the space, tidy up the edges, then create the ply end joining boards. The sides are then screwed and glued on - I used the black tube of No More Nails. My ends are deeper than the sides. Once all dry and screwed together its remarkably rigid and light. I have cut 6mm ply tops which will be reduced to follow the track work thus saving some more weight. I have begun to add an outer strip of scenery which drops below the level of the line and is also screwed to this inner structural section. If anything this makes the structure even tougher as it sandwiches the ply sides between foam. Two of these three boards are removable when not running so I wanted something light to move around.

 

Sections cut to size in situ

Ply edging and ends

Ends shwoing 20x20mm battens used in corners.

Three boards fixed together without ply trackbed in place.

With ply top and scenic edging in place

 

The biggest problem may be that Focus DIY was the only place I could find these Knauf boards and now they've gone into administration and closed I can't find any more without ordering from an online trade supplier. Typical!

[Re6/6]

Excellent work there Raphael. Your method is the way that it should be done. This must be the only way to go in baseboard construction in the future.

 

I get mine from B&Q. It seems to be a stocking item in the bigger stores. My local B&Q used to stock but don't now but have said that they can order it for me.

[number6]

Thanks John - its quite a liberating method of construction if ones woodwork joint skills aren't that good! The only thing I forgot to mention is build them upside down on a large flat surface [a big sheet of ply] this ensures the top of them will be level once flipped back over. Will check out B&Q.

[Kallaroonian]

Great minds think alike. This is almost exactly what I am doing particularly with regard to the shaped foam, oversized ends and ply sides.

 

As food for thought here are the areas where we differ :

 

- I'm using end plates that are wider and deeper and then bolting through the protruding flanges to fix one board to the next. I'm using bolts and washers on one side mating to those furniture nut thingies on the other side (ie the self-gripping nuts that bite into the workpiece. The end plates are 12mm ply.

 

- on the sides I'm using only 3mm ply located into a rebate cut into both ply end plates and glued into place along their entire length.

 

- I have experimented with additional battens under the length of the two prototype boards but these use 50mm play and I may shift to 60mm and elimiate the battens

 

- I am not using any play facing on the top surface. I can't see the point; just my opinion. I'm trying to keep the weight and carpenty to a minimum and I don't think the top facing brings anything to the party.

 

- I intend the track to also have a join between baseboards so that boards can be separated if necessary. The arrangement above helps with this because I predicty track can be more firmly attached to the ply ends than to the foam areas.

 

- I will used closed cell camping mat material as underlay

 

More photos soon

 

rgds

[number6]

Kall, I felt the foam does a great job of structural integrity but not such a good one as a durable top surface. I also like the roadbed to be raised off the basic baseboard level and have shoulders to the ballast. The ply tops, once cut, will be doing this job, and as my boards bridge between more conventional sections I just carried the surface across. I debated it but didn't go for any fancy connections between boards - just firmly bolted together and then use LEGO to locate the ply top accurately.

 

cheers R

[Kallaroonian]

No6,

 

I think you are right that the foam will present a less durable surface. It also sounds like a necessary approach when you have adjoining conventional sections. My layout will always be fixed so I'm hoping the durability is not an issue. Iam actually thinking that for the lower storage sections that are out of sight I might just go with 100mm foam and not even bother with the play facings.

 

I'm planning on the camping mat foam providing me with a raised roadbed but yet to try it.

 

But the LEGO? You have to tell us how the LEGO factors in. I had no thought of using LEGO for anything but you've made me think it would be a great way to locate buildings

 

Rgds

[number6]

I superglue one of these to the inside of the end boards and one of these to the underside of the ply top. The trick is to locate one and then not quite push down the other so that when the board is in position you can press the two pieces home. Works a treat. Ply seems to take to superglue very well. I rough up the smooth surfaces of the LEGO to get a good key and use the glue sparingly.

 

I have aligned cassettes using Lego in the past and as you say I think it would work really well to locate elements on the model that need removing. LEGO is cheap, durable, dead accurate and easy to cut or adapt. Just don't steal too many bits or the kids will get annoyed. I bought a whole bagful from the LEGO store of the most useful bits.

[Pete2210]

Thanks John - its quite a liberating method of construction if ones woodwork joint skills aren't that good! The only thing I forgot to mention is build them upside down on a large flat surface [a big sheet of ply] this ensures the top of them will be level once flipped back over. Will check out B&Q.

 

 

My local B&Q is selling the sheets of Spaceboard singly, I used to have to buy a pack of four from Focus, I think I paid about £4.98 a sheet but I could be wrong.

[Kallaroonian]

GBP4.98 !!!

 

I supposed it depends what size that is though. Here in Perth - where much of the pricing has become literally tyrannical lately - the price of a single sheet 2450x600x50 is AUD60. That's GBP40.

[Re6/6]

GBP4.98 !!!

 

That's for a 1200mm x 500mm x 50mm.

 

 

I supposed it depends what size that is though. Here in Perth - where much of the pricing has become literally tyrannical lately - the price of a single sheet 2450x600x50 is AUD60. That's GBP40.

 

That's an extorsionate price! And I thought stuff generally over here was getting dear!

[number6]

On the label for the stuff it mentions it is part of a subsidised scheme to encourage the insulation of our homes. That may have ended and we now begin to pay full whack? I like the idea of a Government policy to encourage the building of model trains...

[BRealistic]

Hi Kallaroonian,

 

I'd really be interested to know how you get on using the mat foam for the road bed and applying it directly onto the 'styrofoam'.

 

I bought a roll (of the mat foam... 8mm thick, from Millets) and intended to do the same... but I began to worry it might all be a bit too 'sqidgey' with one foam on top of the other. One false move and depression might set in!!

 

Before I read this thread I was heading towards using the mat foam on top of mdf for the road bed etc, then attatching this to the baseboard foam. I needn't worry about weight or dismantling as the layout wiil stay put, but what is important (for me) is ease of construction... and the deadening of sound (for the benefit of others as well as me!).

 

Good luck with your trials!

[GreenDiesel]

I made a small layout -- about 5.5 x 3.5 feet -- using insulation styrofoam and am very pleased with it. It's light, strong & easily modified. Even though this layout is very small, I gave it some extra strength by making a plywood frame around it.

 

In the future, I wouldn't mind building a 2x6 or 2x8 foot layout using another sheet of insulation styrofoam.

 

Rob

[Kallaroonian]

BRealistic

 

Hi, I'm not too sure from your post whether you have handled styrofoam directly or not? This is not a case of one squidgy foam on top of another for two reasons :

 

1. the styrofoam is really quite rigid, just like a styofoam throw-away coffee cup. You can dent it by pressing fairly heavily and you can mark it with your fingernail relatively easily. In normal use it is just a large lightweight block such that if you support either end of a 50mm 1.8m length it will deflect at the midpoint by maybe a centrimetre or so

 

2. camping mat foam is squidgy but still relatively firm.

 

There are two issues I see with using the foam and mat combination :

 

a) gluing the mat effectively to the styrofoam is an uncertainty. I may have to ry out some different glues but I'm sure there will be an answer

 

B) either or both foams might totally collapse over time in that way that some foam does this (ie by converting itself into dust). This would obviously be a total disaster because the layout would literally crumble to dust. If only the camping mat did this then the scenery would be good but all the track would need re-laying !!

 

I overcome my concern around B) as a result of googling the lifespan of styrofoam. It's not a very nice product at all in that sense.

 

http://www.greenecoservices.com/how-long-does-it-take-for-trash-to-biodegrade/

 

In the controlled environment out of sunlight it appears the bio-degradation time is infinity.

 

 

I'll post some more photos when I have a useful update. The status at the moment is that I have a couple of prototype boards which have worked out very well but also thrown up one or two design mods that I will use on later boards. I intend to provide my complete conclusion to the subject of styrofoam boards the next time I write but it might not be for a few weeks - I need to complete some work on interconnection, mat aadhesion and gradient creation first

 

Regards

[Kallaroonian]

........so much for a and b in a list.....

[number6]

but it might not be for a few weeks - I need to complete some work on interconnection, mat aadhesion and gradient creation first

 

You'll be wearing a lab coat and safety googles at all times I hope?

[Kallaroonian]

Yeah I'm starting to sound as mad as a box of frogs aren't I?

 

Thanks for the sanity warning.....

[BRealistic]

Kallaroonian

 

It was a 'friend of a friend's' continuous, permanent (5000 years it seems!) garage layout that I witnessed styrofoam first hand. He demonstrated the effect of a fingernail, but said it was otherwise amazingly firm and stable.

He'd laid his (quite complicated) trackwork onto some thinnish C&L foam and then stuck that directly to the styro. The ONLY ply he'd used was some really thin stuff (3mm I think) along the front edges... onto which he'd mounted all the point motors... with the wiring set into the surface of the styro in tiny channels. Easy access assured! Said he'd probably use a slightly thicker (only slightly) ply if doing it today.

The most basic of supporting stuctures was underneath, with cross members located where the styro blocks were joined using a 'no more nails' adhesive.

He sure made it sound oh so simple... and it really was!! Not a single problem after a couple of years... and the garage isn't sealed. A source of fun and relaxation... while he gets on with a rather more special 7mm Broad Gauge end-to-end layout that sits on a simple styro shelf along one side!

All of which suggests you are definitely on the right track!!!

[Chris g]

Really interesting thread.

 

Instead of using the foam mat, has anyone tried cork, (from tiles) ? Would it be suitable for the track bed or scenery base ?

 

As its easy to cut and shape as well as light, I was going to give it a try.

 

Chris g

[Will Vale]

I use cork on styrofoam, glued down with PVA, and it works fine, but I'm not sure it gives you much noise-dampening effect. It's good for providing a ballast shoulder though, and the pre-cut strips have just the right degree of flex that you can use them to layout flowing centre lines.

 

Will

[Pete2210]

Will Vale & Chris G,

 

I am building a small modern image layout and following a series of articles in BRM I'm trying out the foam that was used in the article by Nigel Burkin, and it is available from Nairnshire modelling supplies - usual disclaimer, just a satisfied customer.

 

I made the mistake of laying track directly onto the boards in a previous layout and was amazed how noisy it was, I've used cork onto Styrofoam, glued down with clear silicone sealant, the latest track and roadbed is glued down with copydex, both have worked well

 

Pete

[Kallaroonian]

I have finalised the design and production method for my Styrofoam baseboards

 

 

 

 

 

 

You can see there is quite a pile of foam boards I have to work through !! I am using 12mm ply for the end plates and these are secured from one board to another using 5 bolts and those toothed threaded furniture fittings. These ply panels are 70mm deep.

The Styrofoam is 50mm thick and will deflect a little over a 2m length. I’m using 3mm ply along the sides to create a more rigid composite structure and to protect the Styrofoam from impact. The 3mm panels are recessed into routed channels in the ply end plates for extra strength – the panel at the front is 70mm while the one at the back is 300mm thereby doubling up as the backscene.

I have also used one reinforcing timber beneath each board although I doubt this is really necessary. I’ve bonded everything together using No More Nails Fast which is compatible with the foam (regular NMN is not)

 

I have yet to completely resolve the electrical connections which I also want to be modular per board. I am considering bare cables down either side of the reinforcing timber (to reduce the chance of shorts) which are then hooked up to a junction box per board.

 

I also have a different approach in mind for the main station where length of Styrofoam will be located together using their shiplap edges and supported on a couple of spars. Something like this mock-up :

 

 

And some photos of that in-situ will follow eventually (say, before Christmas….) but I will post all further progress on the main layout thread here :

http://www.rmweb.co....__fromsearch__1

 

Rgds

[Re6/6]

B&Q very helpfully stopped stocking this in my local store but kept it in their main 'warehouse' stores. Now it seems to have disappeared from their website so I would assume that they don't stock it at all now.

 

Any suggestions out there for another supplier please?

 

What is the blue variety called and where is that available from?

 

Has anybody had any experience of any similar dense foam materials?

 

Thanks

[buffalo]

Yes, I've also discovered this. Both B&Q and Wickes have stopped stocking it though neither could give a reason. I suspect it may be be that the 'subsidised' deal has come to an end. My current baseboard project is on hold until I can find an alternative. IIRC there was a company in Sheffield that supplied the blue stuff, though I think I'll try to source something nearer to home first.

 

Nick