number6 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 If the Celotex you describe is foil backed I think you'll find it has no structural rigidity when this is removed, cut or gets damaged. It seems fine until this skin removed. Then it becomes wobblier than a coalition government removing the green insulation incentives! The Knauf stuff is far more rigid and useful. I would keep the Celotex for landscapes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Re6/6 Posted October 4, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 4, 2012 If the Celotex you describe is foil backed I think you'll find it has no structural rigidity when this is removed, cut or gets damaged. It seems fine until this skin removed. Then it becomes wobblier than a coalition government removing the green insulation incentives! The Knauf stuff is far more rigid and useful. I would keep the Celotex for landscapes. Be warned, it is also very crumbly if you want to use it as a substitute for the Knauf 'Space Board'. Although I haven't tried it, you could perhaps use it if it is totally encased with 4mm ply glued on with solvent free adhesive, but then all that is extra work compared to using 'Space Board'. It is indeed excellent stuff for building up scenic bases for contouring. So much better than more 'traditional' heavier methods and easier to clean up afterwards than polystyrene.(No floating white crumbs!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewC Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 One thing that really hasn't been mentioned in this thread until now is that each type of board is very different. John and #6 have both stated that the Celotex is weaker and prone to crumble. From the playing about I've done so far and looking at the specs this is what I've found.... Dow Corning blue floormate is the most dense and is designed for, duh floors and weight bearing. This is the best stuff in my experience for structural baseboard/module construction. Its also the hardest to cut or shape. Knauf spaceboard pink is slightly less dense and a bit easier to cut. Its designed for loft insulation and has just enough rigidity for baseboard construction. I've used it on modules where it provides only the flat surface. Structural strength is provided by 12mm birch ply. Still a lot lighter per m2 than using 6mm ply tops or similar. Celotex yellow (remove the foil) is lighter and even less dense than the Knauf. However its not suitable for baseboard construction as it has a dendency to crumble once the foil is removed. Its also prone to warping and twisting. As John mentioned its better for scenics. There is also a green foam product available from 4D models. http://www.modelshop.co.uk/product/Styrofoam%2C_green_25_x_315_x_310mm_RF33009 If you are carving shapes or landscapes it can't be beat. Softer than Celotex and easier to cut/shape. Its not as crumbly as the so called "florist foam" and no annoying beads when cutting. Also no foil layer to have to mess about with removing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 One thing that really hasn't been mentioned in this thread until now is that each type of board is very different... I thought we had addressed that at least once starting towards the bottom of the first page but, given the length of the thread, it probably bears repeating as mention of the foil covered stuff crops up regularly. Useful summary nonetheless. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewC Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 True Nick but this thread is actually 2 threads merged. Its likely one thread mentioned it and the other didn't. As long as the info is useful to someone though..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 You see how heavy that Green Styrofoam is per sq meter? Is that right? I came across an interesting product in Walmart of all places this week. It's from Elmer's (and no I've searched their website and it is not mentioned). It is white, two inches thick, extremely light and hard. Funny thing is it doesn't look as dense as that Green stuff but it must have a tight structure as, once again, it is for carving purposes, according to the label - not cheap though... Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewC Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 You see how heavy that Green Styrofoam is per sq meter? Is that right? I came across an interesting product in Walmart of all places this week. It's from Elmer's (and no I've searched their website and it is not mentioned). It is white, two inches thick, extremely light and hard. Funny thing is it doesn't look as dense as that Green stuff but it must have a tight structure as, once again, it is for carving purposes, according to the label - not cheap though... Best, Pete. Nope that's per cubic metre. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 D'oh! Thanks, Andrew..... Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallaroonian Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 Just a warning to all that while I am still a huge supporter of using the styrofoam there is one important caveat that I have found as I have been progressing the layout. The problem with it is that it really is not self-supporting. Therefore you either need to encase it in a sandwich structure as pictured elsewhere or reinforce it with something - in my case some aluminium U-shaped or box shaped bars. Otherwise the styrofoam board will bow. In the case of the 50mm this distortion will be very significant and very clearly and immediately visible. However even with 100mm styrofoam board you will find that it cannot support it's own weight. It's still a great medium - strong, lightweight, versatile etc - but you do need to be careful about the fundamental support rgds Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallaroonian Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 Just a warning to all that while I am still a huge supporter of using the styrofoam there is one important caveat that I have found as I have been progressing the layout. The problem with it is that it really is not self-supporting. Therefore you either need to encase it in a sandwich structure as pictured above or reinforce it with something - in my case some aluminium U-shaped or box shaped bars. Otherwise the styrofoam board will bow. In the case of the 50mm this distortion will be very significant and very clearly and immediately visible. However even with 100mm styrofoam board you will find that it cannot support it's own weight. It's still a great medium - strong, lightweight, versatile etc - but you do need to be careful about the fundamental support rgds Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted November 17, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2012 I used 2 layers of 25mm as I couldnt get 50mm thick at the time. It sits on top of 1" x 2" softwood frame with one central cross brace. The board edges are faced with 4mm thick ply. The boards are 4 feet by 24". They are now 6 years old and have done about 30 exhibitions They haven't bowed but that could be due to the PVA glue used to stick the two layers together. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallaroonian Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 Good to hear. I can guarantee it hasn't bowed due to the frame, cross-brace and board edgings (which effectively makes for a sandwich construction also supported on a sub-frame !) rgds Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammstein2609 Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Good news I have just taken delivery of 2 pallets of the pink spaceboard at work this morning. Expect to see these on sale within the next week at B&Q warehouse stores. I think the plan is to move the Christmas decorations from the front of store and replace with insulation products. I haven't checked the price of the boards yet but they have renamed them to Knauf Spaceboard Eco. It is exactly the same product as before and sold as single sheets. Once I find out pricing details I'll let you know. Cheers Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted December 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 6, 2012 handy to know as im just about to insulate the new shed but am struggling to find something at a decent price Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_long Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Any idea whether these are the larger 1220x600mm sheets or the size that Wickes sell at 1200x500mm? Hope the price is lower wicked are around the £8 mark and held only in a few warehouse stores. If you Google Styrofoam a number of places sell it, Hindleys being the best price and range IMO ( no connection ). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewC Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 I got tired of hunting and just received 8 sheets of Dow Floormate. I would have had to chase down every Wickes within 100 miles just to get 6 sheets. That works out to the equivilent of 16 sheets @ 1220 by 600 for £131 or £8.18 a sheet, delivered. So far, structurally its miles ahead of the Spaceboard. Much denser and I can walk on it without leaving a depression in the material. Dave, I've never seen the Knauf sold in any size other than 1200 by 500. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_long Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Thanks Andrew, your right I found the Knauf data sheet for their Eco and it states 1200x500 @ 60mm thick. I ideally want the 600mm wide board for a 4'x2' micro layout. I'm lucky I live reasonably close to a Wickes who last time I enquired said they had 111 sheets, but have not bought any due to the smaller width. The Blue Styrofoam looks good though which floor mate version did you buy there seems to be several? Regards Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewC Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 Things change. The last Knauf I bought was 1200x500x52. Looks like the eco means 8mm thicker. I got the Floormate 300A 600x2500x50mm thick which seems to be the only version available from Insulation Express. Even then they had to source it from further than expected. The 2 nearest locations were out of stock. The 200A is cheaper and less dense but not available unless you bulk purchase from Sheffield Insulations directly. Been there, done that, gave up trying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammstein2609 Posted December 6, 2012 Share Posted December 6, 2012 The boards we received today are indeed 500mm wide. The retail price on our system at the moment is £5 exactly per sheet. When it goes on sale I imagine there will be some sort of deal like 3 for 2 or buy one get one free. To stop us telling people, head office don't tell us the promotions until the day before they go live. Cheers Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted December 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 7, 2012 ive just bought some kingspan TW50 insulation boards off ebay, they are 1200mm x 450mm and 40mm depth as that is the depth of the vertical batoning on the shed going to pick them up tomorrow, got 36 sheets which should do the whole shed apart from the roof, anyone used the kingspan stuff before? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 Jim, see the first page of this topic. I believe this is one of the foil coated types, fine for insulation, crap for baseboards. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted December 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 7, 2012 Jim, see the first page of this topic. I believe this is one of the foil coated types, fine for insulation, crap for baseboards. Nick thats good as ive bought it for insulating! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_long Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 You can use it for landscaping though. The BCB challenge boys have used it on top of their baseboards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted December 7, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 7, 2012 You can use it for landscaping though. The BCB challenge boys have used it on top of their baseboards. i noticed it had been used in the pic on the first page of this thread, nothing is getting binned offcut wise when i do get round to the lining Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted December 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 8, 2012 this is the stuff i picked up this morning, 36 sheets worth, enough to do the whole shed bar the roof hopefully make a start on it next week Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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