Eastwood Town - A tribute to Gordon's modelling.

[gordon s]

Just back from the doctors with yet another antibiotic, so hopefully this one will do.  My healthcare is a little more complex as I have had CVID for the last thirty years and have intravenous infusions every couple of weeks.  The consequence of that is infections can get a firmer hold and treatment takes a while longer.  Despite all that I lead a full and active life, so it's not an issue for me.

 

I really have taken on board everything that has been said and now separated the two completely.  I do want something that will be enjoyable to run, but don't want to go so far away from reality that it looks daft.  That has always been my view but somehow it got lost in translation.  As a separate exercise I want to expand my skill base on copper clad, so will play around in parallel with the various technique's I've read about on Bronx Terminal.

 

Lace making pins?  Surprised by your comment John as they are great for holding bullhead rail vertical whilst experimenting with solder joints.

 

http://www.claireslace.co.uk/shop/index.php?id_product=217&controller=product

 

They are also ideal for tie rod construction and I've been working with Pete Harvey on an etch that will take a pin and accommodate a solder joint to a tie bar.  This will reduce the torque effect on the tie bar joint.  If the design works, it will certainly help me with slips where you have short stiff blades in groups of pairs.

 

If it works, I'll show you.  If it doesn't you won't hear about it......

 

All of the input provided over the last couple of days has been invaluable and if I turn to my right a complete new shed plan is underway which will hopefully address all the issues you have raised.  I'm hoping the flow will be correct, there will be space for loco's to stand in steam, the bare wall of the shed will become a thing of the past and loco's will be able to access the coaling stage, shed and turntable without having to negotiate a ton of diamond crossings.  

 

Give me a few hours and we can have a whole new chat.

 

Apologies, it I was a bit tetchy, the lack of sleep over the past few days has clearly reduced my tolerance threshold....

Edited January 9, 2018 by gordon s

[Siberian Snooper]

Why does everyone want to spoil Gordon's bit of fun, he just wants to have a go at building it, he has not said that he will actually use it. I can understand a wish to do something outside of the normal comfort zone. It's a bit like mountain climbing, people do it for the sense of achievement.

[hayfield]

 

Lace making pins?  Surprised by your comment John as they are great for holding bullhead rail vertical whilst experimenting with solder joints.

 

http://www.claireslace.co.uk/shop/index.php?id_product=217&controller=product

 

They are also ideal for tie rod construction and I've been working with Pete Harvey on an etch that will take a pin and accommodate a solder joint to a tie bar.  This will reduce the torque effect on the tie bar joint.  If the design works, it will certainly help me with slips where you have short stiff blades in groups of pairs.

 

If it works, I'll show you.  If it doesn't you won't hear about it......

 

All of the input provided over the last couple of days has been invaluable and if I turn to my right a complete new shed plan is underway which will hopefully address all the issues you have raised.  I'm hoping the flow will be correct, there will be space for loco's to stand in steam, the bare wall of the shed will become a thing of the past and loco's will be able to access the coaling stage, shed and turntable without having to negotiate a ton of diamond crossings.  

 

Give me a few hours and we can have a whole new chat.

 

Apologies, it I was a bit tetchy, the lack of sleep over the past few days has clearly reduced my tolerance threshold....

 

Gordon

 

I do very little in the way of copperclad construction now, just the odd turnout for a late 19th century layout. I build the Vee's first (in a jig) and fit them, roller gauges then hold the stock rails upright.  I guess the jig does the work of keeping the rail vertical, then everything is set by a gauge off the Vee. My biggest issue is when making common crossings as a sub assembly then fitting the wing rails, again I have developed a simple jig to help me

[gordon s]

I agree totally when building turnouts, but I was specifically referring to building the Bronx Terminal crossings where the rails are soldered without the copper clad sleeper.  In that process you have nothing to hold the rail vertical as there are no copper clad sleepers in the initial assembly.  Sliding between two lace pins is just one option.  I've used BluTack in the past.

 

I would set one rail out and then gauge the second.  One you have cut all the half lap joints, there is a certain amount of clearance, so the rail is free to move off the vertical.  Holding the gauge with a couple of slot gauges is always the right way to go, but in order to run a loco across the crossings, I would leave around 12" of tails and that's where the pins would come in useful.

 

There are dozens of ways to skin a cat.....

[martin_wynne]

Saw a 2p coin in half.

 

Push the curved edges against the rail. One half each side. Hold down with Blu-Tak.

 

Holds the rail vertical with minimum heat-sink contact.

 

2p coins are 80 thou thick so ideal for code 75 rail.

 

Martin.

[gordon s]

Bloomin' eck, first it was a 20p coin for 1.7mm clearance and then a 10p for 2mm and now another 2p...

 

Do you think I'm made of money?......

Edited January 9, 2018 by gordon s

[hayfield]

Bloomin' eck, first it was a 20p coin for 1.7mm clearance and then a 10p for 2mm and now another 2p...

 

Do you think I'm made of money?......

 

 

Not even mentioned the 50p bit or £1 & £2 coins !!!I have a steel bar 1" x 1/8" x 12" long, very usefull

[gordon s]

A question if I may.  I've spent all afternoon coming up with a new shed plan.  This one has possibilities, but still has a fundamental fault, so I've pushed that to one side completely and am now working on a second option from a plain sheet of paper.

 

The difficulties every time are the relative position of the major items, restrictions on radii, the size available and the diagonal entrance to the whole area.

 

I have an idea but it will involve access to the shed building via the turntable.  I'm sure I read somewhere this was frowned up because if the table went down loco's were marooned.  Getting the sheds and storage roads off the turntable is OK, but it's then access to all the other key features.  I'm sure these will be OK as they won't be off the turntable and will have direct access to the shed access road.

 

This is quite time consuming and the concentration levels high.  Before I go any further on this second design can I ask your opinion on shed access via a turntable?  I'm struggling to connect an escape road right now, so if it was not prototypical I'm back to where I was last night.

 

As always, I'm grateful for your input.

[KeithHC]

Bound to be corrected here but I think Nine Elms shed on the Southern was only accessed by the turntable.

 

Keith

[trustytrev]

Hello Gordon,

                   I believe the shed access was only available via the turntable at Lancaster Green Ayre. http://railphotoprints.uk/p683721011/h50A352F0#h50a352f0 I may have a plan somewhere.

trustytrev.

Edited January 9, 2018 by trustytrev

[PhilH]

Bound to be corrected here but I think Nine Elms shed on the Southern was only accessed by the turntable.Keith

Post #18 in this thread does confirm this.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/44894-nine-elms/

 

Edit..except it doesn't...looks like there is an alternative route to the shed. Blame poundland readers for overlooking this...

Edited January 9, 2018 by PhilH

[trustytrev]

Hello,

 Here is a link showing the shed access http://lahs.archaeologyuk.org/Tour/Cable.htm

trustytrev.

[gordon s]

Had a quick flick through my shed books. There's a couple of roundhouses at York, but that's slightly different. The only one I've found so far is Leeds Central and that only applied to one shed.

 

I've taken a break, so will take another look tomorrow.

 

Hopefully someone will come up with something. Thanks for putting Nine Elms forward, Keith.

[cb900f]

Gordon,

 

Does the layout of Widnes not appeal to you ? The 2 main lines to Liverpool (bottom side of the shed) could be incorporated into the shed plan as storage/departure roads.

 

Pete

[gordon s]

Thanks Pete, that's really interesting because of the diagonal layout. I'll take a look at that one tomorrow....

[gordon s]

It's 4.00am and another shot at the nightshift....

 

I can understand the attraction now as free from all the day to day noise and distractions, you can focus on what needs to be done.

 

So after many hours work, I have two designs on the table.  There was a third option, but that involved turntable access to the shed and despite trawling through most of the reference books I have available, it confirmed my suspicion that having restricted access was not a good design feature, so that was binned before too much time was wasted.

 

I've also been back over all the posts of the last few days and really have taken on board your valuable comments.  I'm still going to potter around with multi diamond crossings, but simply as a test of my capabilities and they won't be incorporated into the final production design.

 

Initially Mike and latterly, Pete put forward a very interesting concept re Widnes and again reading through the 8F site gave me lots of ideas and they formed the basis of Option 2.  

 

Apologies to Mike at this stage as Widnes hadn't really sunk in with all that was going on, but once I stepped back from everything following Pete's suggestion and revisited all the previous posts, I could see that it was your original idea and it does provide a possibility.

 

Just noticed something.  I think the turntable access from the coaling stage is coming off the wrong line,  It should go to the centre one and the relief road connected differently.  I'll take a look at that today.

 

So this is what I have come up with.

 

Option 1.

 

 

Taking all the major component parts such as the shed, coaling stage, empty coal storage, access to one area without fouling up another proved particularly difficult.  There also the additional element re the orientation of the shed with its unfinished wall.

 

After many attempts I found the only way I could do this was to completely remove the diesel shed and it's tracks to gain some space.  This was the result.

 

Loco's have direct access to the turntable and the shed.

 

There is direct access to the coaling stage and space for a wagon feed.  I now have a run round for the coal wagon loco and the empties have their own siding, all of which can be done without crossing the shed access at any time.

 

The shed is correctly oriented in as much the blank wall is facing out and can be hidden.

 

There is additional storage for locos on steam.

 

The only difficulty is access from the coaling line to the turntable and shed, so there has to be a single line crossing the main access route.

 

This could be attractive in its own right, so it had much going for it.

 

The down side was the loss of the diesel shed, but that could be moved further north and replace a planned industrial area and the possible non prototypical crossings.

 

So it was back to the drawing board.

 

Option 2.

 

It was clear from the hours spent on Option 1 that I could not find a acceptable route to all areas with the relative positions of the component parts, so I took a break and went back over your posts again.  

 

All the buildings were removed from their original positions and I started all over again.

 

This is what emerged.

 

 

Echoes of Widnes with its diagonal curve down from the shed to the turntable.  The shed has been turned through 180 degrees and moved to other end of the space.

 

This has meant the diesel shed area could still be retained and it is a self contained unit.

 

Locos can access the coaler with its associated wagon storage and run round.

 

They can go directly to the turntable and then onto the shed proper, but I have been able to incorporate an escape route should the turntable fail.  I'm still looking at the three storage roads and whether or not I can link them to the escape route.  Two of them may be relatively straightforward, the third less so.

 

It completely does away with any diamond crossings, but locos can move around from the coaling stage via the turntable or approach road and this time I have included the coaling stage relief road.

 

One downside is that there is just the one access road and shunting of coal wagons will entail going down the main line at some point.  Option 1 kept them separate, so that was a point its favour.

 

I'm happy that both options pride some recognition of prototype practice and will provide some interesting running possibilities.

 

I'm open minded about either.  Each has its own attraction, without too many negatives, so I would certainly appreciate any comments you may have to finally make my decision and go off and start cutting wood....

 

Getting there...

 

Edit:  Whilst sitting in the bath, the thought did cross my mind of running a headhunt in parallel with the access in road.  It would mean widening the bridge across to accept an additional line, but that's not an impossible task, so might have some merit.

Edited January 10, 2018 by gordon s

[Regularity]

Not even mentioned the 50p bit or £1 & £2 coins

The old pattern £1 coins are spot on for S gauge!

[Siberian Snooper]

I think option 2 has all the attributes and elements of a lot of steam sheds.

[Regularity]

The difficulties every time are the relative position of the major items, restrictions on radii, the size available and the diagonal entrance to the whole area.

 

Sounds like most aspects of model railway design!

Hello,

Here is a link showing the shed access http://lahs.archaeologyuk.org/Tour/Cable.htm

trustytrev.

Talk about the prototype emulating models!

 

I agree with SS: option 2 looks good. Plus, you can view the whole MPD from the turntable end, making this a standalone layout within a layout - if you made it detachable, you even take it to exhibitions. Would make a change from taking it to the tip. Just so long as you remembered to bring it back!

Edited January 10, 2018 by Regularity

[Regularity]

Just back from the doctors with yet another antibiotic, so hopefully this one will do.  My healthcare is a little more complex as I have had CVID for the last thirty years and have intravenous infusions every couple of weeks.  The consequence of that is infections can get a firmer hold and treatment takes a while longer.  Despite all that I lead a full and active life, so it's not an issue for me.

 

Sorry to hear that, but glad you have accommodated to it and it us not an issue.

They are also ideal for tie rod construction and I've been working with Pete Harvey on an etch that will take a pin and accommodate a solder joint to a tie bar.  This will reduce the torque effect on the tie bar joint.  If the design works, it will certainly help me with slips where you have short stiff blades in groups of pairs.

 

If it works, I'll show you.  If it doesn't you won't hear about it.

 

I hope you share it either way: if it works, great, and if it doesn’t, then it might inspire someone to come up with a workable solution (and at the very least, stops anyone else going down a blind alley).

Apologies, it I was a bit tetchy, the lack of sleep over the past few days has clearly reduced my tolerance threshold....

 

Me, I just like telling people not to be fooled by the crusty, grouchy exterior as the inside is pretty crusty and grouchy, too.

[chris p bacon]

Just back from the doctors with yet another antibiotic, so hopefully this one will do.  My healthcare is a little more complex as I have had CVID for the last thirty years and have intravenous infusions every couple of weeks.  The consequence of that is infections can get a firmer hold and treatment takes a while longer.  Despite all that I lead a full and active life, so it's not an issue for me

 

I keep blood donating (O-) 2-3 times a year. Now as part of the process they send you a text message and say where your blood has gone after it's been taken. I'm half expecting someday to see your name in one of these texts. 

[gordon s]

Sounds like most aspects of model railway design!

Talk about the prototype emulating models!

 

I agree with SS: option 2 looks good. Plus, you can view the whole MPD from the turntable end, making this a standalone layout within a layout - if you made it detachable, you even take it to exhibitions. Would make a change from taking it to the tip. Just so long as you remembered to bring it back!

 

I been working on Option 2 again this morning and have now added a headshunt.  The coaling train will come down the coaler road.  The loco uncouples and runs round the train.  At this time the coal is going to go nowhere, so I'll need to work out a way of dropping the coal to create empty wagons.  That's way off in the future, but for now it will have to be in my imagination.

 

Having run round it can go down the headshunt and then reverse back into the empty coal wagon siding.  Every so often an 08 or similar can take the empties away.

 

The turntable on this board is going to be just 2' from the main operating position inboard of ET station, so mounting the ADM control on the shed board makes a lot of sense.  I think I will build a second panel just to control this area.  It can be easily reached if operating on your own and yet gives freedom to 2 or 3 other operators.

 

Here's the revised plan.

 

 

 

Sorry to hear that, but glad you have accommodated to it and it us not an issue.

I hope you share it either way: if it works, great, and if it doesn’t, then it might inspire someone to come up with a workable solution (and at the very least, stops anyone else going down a blind alley).

Me, I just like telling people not to be fooled by the crusty, grouchy exterior as the inside is pretty crusty and grouchy, too.

 

Fixing tie bars to copper clad track is one of those things I compromise on.  I just use a dummy sleeper and solder the blades to a piece of 4mm copper clad.  That's fine as I have long point blades, but you are still applying a torque motion to the tie bar which over a period of time may fracture the joint.  Having seen how others deal with this issue, I started playing around with pins that would rotate within the tie rod and reduce this stress.

 

Pete Harvey dropped me a line and this is what I've come up with.

 

 

 

A piece of 0.3mm brass with a hole to take a 0.60mm lace making pin.  Once I get organised I will know exactly how far apart these holes will be on the tie bar to set up the exact 1.7mm or 2mm clearance on long point blades.  The tie bar is a piece of single sided board and is fitted copper side down with a small cut to electrically isolate each side.  The underside is drilled and then counterbored to accept the lace making pin.  The pin comes up through the pivot and the right angle bend butts up to the point blade. The reason it's upside down is to eliminate the problem of solder flowing over and around the pivot and locking up the tie bar.  If that happens, you're no better off as some part of the fixture has to be free to rotate.

 

A quick dab with a soldering iron will create a fillet that attaches the pivot to the blade and the top part of the pin.  Snip off the pin at the solder joint and job done.  The pin is free to rotate within the tie bar and the joint protected.

 

Here's a sketch and the production drawing.  Since this drawing was produced by Pete, I have reduced the length to 3.00mm rather than 3.5mm.  It will be etched on a sheet that will contain around 400-500 components and will be on sale to anyone.  Of course I don't know if this will work at this stage, but I believe it will.  

 

Here's the component drawing.

 

 

 

I keep blood donating (O-) 2-3 times a year. Now as part of the process they send you a text message and say where your blood has gone after it's been taken. I'm half expecting someday to see your name in one of these texts. 

 

A huge thank you to you, Dave and all those who choose to give blood.  I doubt if I'd be here now if wasn't for the kindness of blood donors.  I really don't want to make a big thing of this.  Whilst working I rarely lost much time off work and I still play golf three days a week.  I count myself lucky as others deal with far worse issues than myself.  It's quite relaxing every fortnight to put a needle in your arm and put your feet up for a couple of hours.  I guess it's similar to diabetics and after 30 years of this treatment I don't give it a second thought.  The odd infection is slightly more serious and it can also a little longer, but hopefully I've a few years left yet.

 

Thanks again.

Edited January 10, 2018 by gordon s

[hayfield]

For what ts worth a much better design in my opinion,

 

From what is posted on access to the sheds proves there is no hard and fast rule and after a quick look through one of my OPC books the simplest design was often the rule of the day, followed by what ever the space constraints allow, good choice as far as I am concerned. whilst there was the challenge of track building, I think there would always have been the doubt in back of your mind about would it ever have been built that way

[sixoh8sixoh]

I been working on Option 2 again this morning and have now added a headshunt.  The coaling train will come down the coaler road.  The loco uncouples and runs round the train.  At this time the coal is going to go nowhere, so I'll need to work out a way of dropping the coal to create empty wagons.  That's way off in the future, but for now it will have to be in my imagination.

 

 

You need one of these!

 

https://goo.gl/images/ryYN1a

 

I have one in the loft at my parents... Actually I'm sure an operating coaling tower will be well within your abilities having seen your trackwork and electrics!

[gordon s]

....and one of these the other end.  

 

http://www.ttrca.co.uk/Plumpton%202008/Cooke%203.JPG

 

My first train set was Trix Twin with their 0-4-0 and this piece of kit was probably a few weeks wages for my father.  It's the type of thing that dreams are made of as a 8 year old.