Why is this so rarely modelled?

['CHARD]

It's a good job some of those born too late do have an opinion, even if they elect to model death steam. 

 

Without subsequent generations showing a real interest, with their wallets, Hornby's business model could be fatally holed below the water-line...

[Fat Controller]

 

44777 being turned at Edge Hill about 1967 or 1968 by Wavertreelad, on Flickr

 

And on the gantry, three of the seldom-seen BR 13t coal hoppers..

[Chris Turnbull]

One of Polmadie's finest being turned at 12A I reckon.  She could have possibly made it to Langholm in this condition....  Gorgeous.

Yes, D8081 at Carlisle Kingmoor on 25th August 1967.

 

Chris Turnbull

[84A]

I don't think I have ever seen a picture of Mk2's running behind a steam locomotive. Then, I saw this thread, strarted browsing through flickr, and found this:

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/93122458@N08/8478940071/in/photolist-bw6MZ3-gE35jA-ciExQS-dCCm1Y-dCwUkH-dVfKr2-dVfMtV-99s43A-dAqdhB-eZcBq5-93oXej-azDCJe-9Da4Fz-azDCHZ-6dVhji-azqES4-hVgA9j-9RioZa-gDJXC-bin5Qa-eY65y-e2QbW-fpafE7-fksupT-fvujY-2Lm8wD-fs1vvv-fsfRrN-fVJrL-8mc5kg-6cr2TK-cgt2o-4D79uB-ayXg7h-9oAN59-bY3PL-eTtNmd-aiAr7-8Nn57w-fTmwc-dKQ7iP-qvRXD-gbApa-figHT2-fivT33-dyVmym-dpc2Cq-ccYuG-ayXg7m-azeFjh-uZNK8/

 

which if i'm not mistaken is a Mk2 at the front?

 

I imagine these coaches wouldn't have been pulled by steam much (and it was the last day of steam), but its interesting to see given that a fair amount of steam railtour stock now involves either Mk1's or Mk2's that there were steam hauled instances before preservation.

[Oldddudders]

You are not mistaken, I'm sure. I'd like to say I remember it well, because I was there when that train left - but I'd be lying, as I recall very little of the detail of the day.

 

Realistically, new rolling stock gets allocated to premium services, so steam may not have got much of a look-in with Mk 2s on a weekday. But this was a weekend.

[APOLLO]

Have a look at my photo site below. Britania's hauling Mk2's through Wigan on service trains in late 1966 / 1967.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/67100-apollos-grand-days-out/page-2

 

I remember many Barrow in Furness to Euston expresses were Brit hauled back then, down to Crewe.

 

Brit15

[Dava]

Steam-hauled Mk2s: Southern region had at least one Mk2 (a FK) which was green  - I have a photo of it (in a book) 2nd in a long train of green mainly Bulleid coaches leaving Waterloo for Basingstoke in 1966 hauled by 5MT 73118. I dont imagine there were many of these, it may have been unique.

 

Dava

[37255]

Steam-hauled Mk2s: Southern region had at least one Mk2 (a FK) which was green  - I have a photo of it (in a book) 2nd in a long train of green mainly Bulleid coaches leaving Waterloo for Basingstoke in 1966 hauled by 5MT 73118. I dont imagine there were many of these, it may have been unique.

 

Dava

 

Also seen a photo of this / one of these, being hauled by a Merchant Navy in 66/67.

[talisman56]

Steam-hauled Mk2s: Southern region had at least one Mk2 (a FK) which was green  - I have a photo of it (in a book) 2nd in a long train of green mainly Bulleid coaches leaving Waterloo for Basingstoke in 1966 hauled by 5MT 73118. I dont imagine there were many of these, it may have been unique.

 

Dava

 

The whole of the first batch of Mark 2 FKs - 13387-406 (qty.20) - were allocated to the Southern Region. They were outshopped in plain green livery with yellow cantrail stripes and coaching stock roundels. Under TOPs, they were reclassified as Mark 2z.

[TheSignalEngineer]

The whole of the first batch of Mark 2 FKs - 13387-406 (qty.20) - were allocated to the Southern Region. They were outshopped in plain green livery with yellow cantrail stripes and coaching stock roundels. Under TOPs, they were reclassified as Mark 2z.

 

The North-South divide. We were still riding in Portholes behind 86s.

Quite entertaining going through Betley Road on the Down Fast when the driver was trying to make last orders at The Royal and had forgotten they were only passed for 90mph.

[talisman56]

The North-South divide. We were still riding in Portholes behind 86s.

Quite entertaining going through Betley Road on the Down Fast when the driver was trying to make last orders at The Royal and had forgotten they were only passed for 90mph.

 

The Mark 2 FKs were introduced in 1964 (first appearance on SR stock listings was 06/64 for 13387-90) - could be seen in West of England expresses out of Waterloo in the same train as Bulleid sets and loose Mark 1s...

[Legend]

The Guiness Book of Rail Facts and Feats(1973) has a pic of Oliver Cromwell on a special at Carnforth in 1968 and its definitely a Mk2 brake in blue/grey next to the engine. I always though Mk2s behind a steam loco was a bit incongruous and was like something out a Hornby Catalogue but it did happen. I don't know what disturbs me more, the fact that it was 46 years ago or that when I first saw it in 1973 it would still have been recent history. God I feel old!

[jrg]

An Ian Allan album has a photograph of a Class 52 on the Birmingham line hauling a chocolate and cream mark 1 coach with B4 bogies-model that and see what reaction you get!

[great central]

An Ian Allan album has a photograph of a Class 52 on the Birmingham line hauling a chocolate and cream mark 1 coach with B4 bogies-model that and see what reaction you get!

 

A bit like the chocolate and cream mk1 seen on a video of the last days of the Nottingham-Worksop service in 1964. 

[George91]

I have a photo of a Britannia (Cromwell, I presume) approaching Croston station on the Ormskirk-Preston line at the top of nearly a full rake of mk2s.

 

A quick query that someone on this thread might be able to answer: is there any evidence of blue/grey coaches or mk2s turning up on the GCR in the final months of the London Extension? I've seen plenty of photos of corporate blue DMUs on the line in 1968/69, but never blue/grey coaching stock: or blue locos, for that matter. Any evidence for it?

[Dava]

Pretty much the opposite, if you look at 'Main Line Lament' for example the latterday GCR coaching stock was largely maroon Mk1 stock with plenty of LMS and LNER (Thompson & Gresley) stock, but not hauled blue/grey stock or blue diesel locos. Suspect the blue/grey livery stock was initially used mainly on the West Coast electrified service and gradually spread to the other main lines, whilst the GCR faded away. But maybe there was a special or diversion train which used it?

 

Dava

[APOLLO]

I have lots of books on the GC main line, including the excellent Colin Walker books. I cannot recall any blue / grey stock in any photos, though sod's law will say otherwise !!

 

The main line thru Nottingham Vic closed in Sept 67, so possible. The DMU's that ran the truncated service from Nottingham Arkwright St (just south of Victoria) to Rugby Central were indeed a mixture of blue and Green. This service ended 5 / 5 / 1969.

 

I have been looking through early Railway Magazines, and first photos of (non XP 64) blue / grey stock is a colour photo in June 1965, a MK1 buffet (or restaurant) car. 1966 shows a gradual dribble (Mk 1 & 2)  and quite a few more are evident in 1967 photos. (edited to add - these were not on the GC line)

 

Sods Law - just before I posted this I had a google image search on Nottingham Victoria & found this. Question - is this Victoria ?

 

http://www.nottinghampost.com/Alexander-Britton-easy-answers-modern-day-axe/story-18554959-detail/story.html

 

Brit15

Edited April 17, 2014 by APOLLO

[Clive Mortimore]

I have lots of books on the GC main line, including the excellent Colin Walker books. I cannot recall any blue / grey stock in any photos, though sod's law will say otherwise !!

 

The main line thru Nottingham Vic closed in Sept 67, so possible. The DMU's that ran the truncated service from Nottingham Arkwright St (just south of Victoria) to Rugby Central were indeed a mixture of blue and Green. This service ended 5 / 5 / 1969.

 

I have been looking through early Railway Magazines, and first photos of (non XP 64) blue / grey stock is a colour photo in June 1965, a buffet (or restaurant) car. 1996 shows a gradual dribble and quite a few in 1967 photos. (edited to add - these were not on the GC line)

 

Sods Law - just before I posted this I had a google image search on Nottingham Victoria & found this. Question - is this Victoria ?

 

http://www.nottinghampost.com/Alexander-Britton-easy-answers-modern-day-axe/story-18554959-detail/story.html

 

Brit15

Hi Apollo

 

It looks like Victoria.

[APOLLO]

Yes it is Clive, compare the roofs. DMU is in bay to left where steam loco is.

 

 

 

Brit15

Edited April 17, 2014 by APOLLO

[great central]

I have a photo of a Britannia (Cromwell, I presume) approaching Croston station on the Ormskirk-Preston line at the top of nearly a full rake of mk2s.

 

A quick query that someone on this thread might be able to answer: is there any evidence of blue/grey coaches or mk2s turning up on the GCR in the final months of the London Extension? I've seen plenty of photos of corporate blue DMUs on the line in 1968/69, but never blue/grey coaching stock: or blue locos, for that matter. Any evidence for it?

There are a couple of pictures, a rather heavily pixellated one in one of Alf Henshaw books on the GN in Nottingham showing a railtour rounding the curve at Weekday Cross heading towards Nottingham Vic. It looks very like the second coach from the loco is a MK2 definitely blue/grey. Also a better one in another book who's title escapes me at the moment, of apparently the same railtour at Midland station which definitely has a mk2 in the formation. I would doubt however that any made it down the GC (should that be up?) to London.

Edited April 19, 2014 by great central

[30851]

The last few GC York Bournemouth trains had a blue/white MK1's in them. I would post a link but I don't see to be able to do that for some technical reason! So search for RCTS MYSTERY PHOTOS 67-66-19. The book 'Diesels in the Midlands' by Derek Huntriss has a colour picture of the train with two blue/white coaches arriving in Victoria station. These were all diesel hauled - I haven't seen a picture of a blue/white coach hauled by steam on the GC on a service train- yet.

 

The MK2 looking coaches on the railtour were actually XP64 - search for 66-02-04 on the RCTS site for a discussion.

 

Rob

 

Edited to correct spelling issue I noticed as pressing save.....

Edited May 1, 2014 by 30851

[George Leacon]

In some ways, though, I agree with Coach. It's a generation thing, depends on how old you were back then at the end of steam. I can well understand the feeling of those who worked on BR in it's prime, the 1950's, seeing the demise of steam in very bad conditions. I (we) were young and daft back then, loved steam but found the new blue diesels and electrics exciting also, and the mix of them all was fascinating to a young Brit15 back then.

 

This is the next neg after the above, also at Edgeley same day.

 

2013-01-10-21-39-01 (800x533).jpg

 

Michael sums it up above

 

Back then there was an interesting infrastructure mix. Buildings and signals etc from the pre-grouping, big four influence everywhere and the swank new electrics, Mk 2 coaches and repainted diesels in the Blue / Grey livery (which for me has not been bettered). It was EVERYWHERE also, literally, everywhere. Most places were busy also, still lots of trainload freight with the new block trains, 100t tanks, freightliners etc. This was the case also well after the demise of steam, up to the 80's, though it was in steady decline, as was my interest "in the real thing" back then.

 

As for the current scene, apart from the colourful trains the scene is generally devoid of interest to me, though a visit by train to Liverpool last week gave me some optimism, as new overhead masts are starting to line the Wigan - Liverpool route. New infrastructure at last !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

At least, through modelling, and rmweb we can all keep our respective era's of interest alive, and that, surely, is what it is all about.

 

Happy Xmas to all, and perhaps, one day Coach, we may see OHLE masts and catenary strung through your model of Greenfield !!

 

Brit15

 

Network Rail (interest declaration time, I work for them) has dozens of new and upgraded infrastructure projects ongoing all across the kingdom, of a variety of scales. Off the top of my head: Thameslink, Crossrail, Northern Hub, GNGE modernisation, planned electrification of the GWML & MML, rebuilding the Scottish Borders railway, Birmingham New Street rebuilding, Norton Bridge (WCML in Staffordshire) remodelling, and *cough* HS2 *cough*.

 

We who are in the railway industry are lucky that the overall picture is positive, with ever increasing passenger numbers and cross party political support.

 

As noted above, the railways of the late 1960s & through the 1970s followed the same depressing mantra that the UK was afflicted with in every aspect of public life - "managed decline".

 

There are some fantastic models of the BR Corporate Blue Era (have a look for the Bromley North layout by the way, before it is dismantled) but I find them gloomy, a reminder of a dark time, and it seems that a large number of others feel the same.

 

Still, it seems to get modelled more frequently than the more colourful post-privatisation / current railway scene.

 

 

Ben

Edited May 3, 2014 by George Leacon

[leopardml2341]

Ben,

 

Might have to disagree with your last point - at least from my experience of exhibitions over the last 5 years or so.

 

Andy

Edited May 3, 2014 by leopardml2341

[Michael Delamar]

Stanier tank at Bradford in 1967 with an ex LMS porthole brake in blue and grey

 

https://flic.kr/p/nckVVU

[Hobby]

When I modelled SG in the 70s I did model that era, with a mixture of blue/grey and maroon coaches and green and blue diesels and black steam locos. I think my favourite image of that era was the tarted up Black 5 at the head of blue/grey coaches, still a nice combination in my eyes...

 

That selection of photos in the OP took me right back, I lived in Hutton, about 3 1/2 miles from Lostock Hall by bike via Midge Hall or New Longton dependant on the whim of the day, we used to spot all around that area on the WCML, Skew Bridge and the sidings up near the Farringdon Curve. Used to drive the signaller mad with us wandering the track looking for the flattened penny! I can always remember one of us acting as lookout, though... There was a coal bunker at the end of the sidings which we used as shelter when we spotted, the locos which shunted into the sidings (mainly 8 or 9fs) used to stop right by it and the driver and firemean used to chat to us... I would have been about 11 when those photos were taken...

 

Mmmm, being chased off LH shed when trying to get round the main bit and looking for mementoes from the scrap sidings (a broken OHLE warning sign was the best I managed!)...