Marshall5 Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 I haven't had the opportunity to check the SR offerings from JLRT yet but the buffer spacings on the BR vans was way out. FWIW I'd go with Slater's BR vans anyday - wheels included, proper vac pipes (not whitemetal) more lost wax parts etc. - and cheaper too! Ray. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted December 16, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 16, 2015 I haven't had the opportunity to check the SR offerings from JLRT yet but the buffer spacings on the BR vans was way out. FWIW I'd go with Slater's BR vans anyday - wheels included, proper vac pipes (not whitemetal) more lost wax parts etc. - and cheaper too! Ray. I'm slightly torn. I'd noted that the JLTRT kits didn't include wheels, and this adds a good £10 on to the price, but on the plus side they do variants that neither Parkside or Slaters cover. I know the Slaters kits are a bit fiddly but they do generally include some great cast and etched parts. For me Slaters have the edge but the range, certainly for the late steam period, is limited. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 19, 2015 Author Share Posted December 19, 2015 Agree with the vents as I have seen some nice models start to warp over a short space of time where the builders did not allow the build up to escape. How about using off cuts of wood as a block to space out the sides and to provide some real weight to the wagon at the same time thus dispencing with the lead. As we all stash off cuts of wood for a rainy day as we never know when they might come in handy... Kevin Yes, that would work. I think however that a wood block might involve more effort adjusting it to be just the right width. A plane would be little use on such a small piece. I prefer an HIP spacer, quicker to trim with a scalpel, file or abrasive paper. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 19, 2015 Author Share Posted December 19, 2015 I'm slightly torn. I'd noted that the JLTRT kits didn't include wheels, and this adds a good £10 on to the price, but on the plus side they do variants that neither Parkside or Slaters cover. I know the Slaters kits are a bit fiddly but they do generally include some great cast and etched parts. For me Slaters have the edge but the range, certainly for the late steam period, is limited. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the only other kit for a SR (or SR derived) van the Parkside - which is a 9 ft WB, unfitted. The JLTRT kits that I have ordered are all 10 ft WB vac' fitted vans. As for having to buy the wheels as an extra I have to say £10 or so is neither here nor there. If I was strapped for cash (which I'm not) I would have just bought two vans, not three. As of today they haven't arrived - Christmas looms..... Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 19, 2015 Author Share Posted December 19, 2015 I haven't had the opportunity to check the SR offerings from JLRT yet but the buffer spacings on the BR vans was way out. FWIW I'd go with Slater's BR vans anyday - wheels included, proper vac pipes (not whitemetal) more lost wax parts etc. - and cheaper too! Ray. The choice between two competing kits for the same vehicle is always going to be a matter of personal taste. FWIW the higher cost is not relevant for me - the shorter build time swings it. I want more vans for Dock Green but don't want to spend days building them. If Pete Waterman's claim of an hour to build and paint 'em pans out for me then the higher cost is buying me time I can use on the FVRR, specifically lots and lots of trees. Of course if I have to waste time correcting the spacing of buffer holes naughty words might be used.... Chaz 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 23, 2015 Author Share Posted December 23, 2015 The JLTRT SR vans arrived yesterday. My first comment is how well they are packaged. The two main mouldings wrapped in tissue paper and then bubble wrap, the remaining bits in polythene bags with the space left filled with polystyrene packing. Emptying the box (watch how for those pesky polystyrene esses, they get everywhere) reveals the contents. The body shell, a bag of brass lost wax castings, a bag of white metal castings, some very good illustrated instructions, an illustrated parts list and a guarantee card. In the instructions it says that should you damage a part during assembly they will replace it. I unwrapped the body shell, which had the underframe moulding popped into place but not fixed. The detail of the moulding is extremely clean and neat, and with a quick look over I found no bubble marks. Turning it over reveals the one piece underframe. I couldn't put the kits away without first checking the spacing of the buffer holes, in view of critical comments about the BR standard van kits. I couldn't be bothered to trawl through the books for the prototype dimension and then scale it so I did a quick comparison between a JLTRT SR van and a Slater's one. As you can see they are (as they might say on I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue) within a gnat's crochet of being identically spaced - so no need for any naughty words. The JLTRT team have got it right this time. SWMBO suggests that I finish the several other wagons I have "on the go" before starting these. When I do come to assemble these kits I will post details here. I think it would make sense to build them as a batch - doing each task to all three in turn. There is a time saving to be had batch building but it can be a bit tedious - I wouldn't want to do a dozen that way. Chaz 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted December 23, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 23, 2015 Those look very good Chaz, good to see that the buffer shank holes are in the correct location. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 24, 2015 Author Share Posted December 24, 2015 Those look very good Chaz, good to see that the buffer shank holes are in the correct location. Yes, they do. At the Reading trade show I handled a finished van and was impressed with it. At some point I may well buy a couple of the BR standard van kits to "complete the set" and will have to fill and drill the holes in those. Of course forewarned is fore-armed but it is good that JLTRT have got it right with these. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeatherKay Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 A tip, from someone who has many JLTRT boxes waiting to be built and many that have passed through the workshop in the past couple of years: make sure you check the packed castings and etches against the packing lists before you begin construction. While the JLTRT packing department have got a lot better in the past year or so, checking for anything missing before you start a model is less annoying than finding a part isn't there when you're halfway through a build. ;o) Incidentally, I believe the buffer spacing issue affected only one or two of the BR van kits. Everything else the company makes has been been spot on as far as I can tell. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 24, 2015 Author Share Posted December 24, 2015 A tip, from someone who has many JLTRT boxes waiting to be built and many that have passed through the workshop in the past couple of years: make sure you check the packed castings and etches against the packing lists before you begin construction. While the JLTRT packing department have got a lot better in the past year or so, checking for anything missing before you start a model is less annoying than finding a part isn't there when you're halfway through a build. ;o) Incidentally, I believe the buffer spacing issue affected only one or two of the BR van kits. Everything else the company makes has been been spot on as far as I can tell. Thanks Heather for the advice. If I can grab an hour today in between wrapping prezzies and other assorted non-modelling activities I will sit down this evening with the parts lists and check mine. If anyone can say definitively which of the JLTRT kits are affected by the wayward holes that would be useful. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 I'll second Heather's comments re checking the contents against the packing list although that is no guarantee that the parts were ever intended to be there. I purchased a set of JLRT American bogies in whitemetal and when I asked for the 'missing' brake shoes was told they didn't include them any more "because people didn't use them" ! To be fair they did send me a set in the end. When I built one of the LMS vans the packing list showed 2 types of axlebox (flat fronted and RCH) although only one (the incorrect one for the vehicle I was building) was supplied. I thought this was a simple packing error and asked for the other type but was told that JLRT had never intended to supply them as no-one would want them. When I pressed the matter, pointing out that if something is in the packing list it should be included I was accused of being a "rivet - counter". The full account, including the e-mail communications can be read on the G0G forum. I have not bought anything from JLRT since. Chaz, to answer your question the buffer holes on the Fruit D are approximately half a hole too close together. Those on the LMS van slightly less so. Cheers, Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 24, 2015 Author Share Posted December 24, 2015 I checked through the three kits today, matching the parts against the parts lists. All the parts were included, although one set of brakes are broken, I will email JLTRT with a photo' and request a repacement. Interesting that the axleboxes are cast separately to the W irons and can be made to slide smoothly up and down with a little work. This design feature offers the chance to compensate the vans very simply using the method advocated by Chris Klein. Chaz 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Do JLTRT have the even planked van? They look very nice, I may be tempted. Merry Christmas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev_Lewis Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 At some point I may well buy a couple of the BR standard van kits to "complete the set" and will have to fill and drill the holes in those. Having built a couple of the JLTRT BR vans I can say that they're only about half the width of the hole out. I widened the hole to get them in the right place and the base of the buffer body hid the discrepancy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 25, 2015 Author Share Posted December 25, 2015 Do JLTRT have the even planked van? They look very nice, I may be tempted. Merry Christmas Yes they do. In fact they do the even planked, the uneven and the plywood variants. I went mad and bought one of each. Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 25, 2015 Author Share Posted December 25, 2015 Having built a couple of the JLTRT BR vans I can say that they're only about half the width of the hole out. I widened the hole to get them in the right place and the base of the buffer body hid the discrepancy. Thanks for that. just what I wanted to hear! If Dock Green doesn't end up with too many vans once the current batch are running I will have a couple myself. Chaz 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted December 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 25, 2015 A few years ago I bought two Cambrian low sided wagons at a show. I opened and examined one but left the other. I opened it recently to build the wagons and discovered the second kit has the cast parts but the body is a Gauge 1 model! As it is wrapped in bubble wrap it was not immediately obvious. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 25, 2015 Author Share Posted December 25, 2015 (edited) I checked through the three kits today, matching the parts against the parts lists. All the parts were included, although one set of brakes are broken, I will email JLTRT with a photo' and request a repacement. Interesting that the axleboxes are cast separately to the W irons and can be made to slide smoothly up and down with a little work. This design feature offers the chance to compensate the vans very simply using the method advocated by Chris Klein. Chaz Of course white-metal sliding on white-metal is not good engineering but thinking about the minimal movement you might expect (even over Peco crossings!) as an axle rocks I can't think that this will be a problem. It occurs to me that even without Chris Klein's compensation rod (pin? wire?) the sliding axleboxes should help - they will work in the same way that the ones on Parkside wagons do. I have a few of their wagons with floating axleboxes running on Dock Green and they give no trouble. Chaz Edited December 25, 2015 by chaz 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckjumper Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 (edited) I remember Pete saying he had a real case of hot boxes with some JLTRT wagons running on Leamington Spa a couple of years ago, but then the distances (and speeds!) a train traverses on Dock Green compared to Leamington is negligible. Even so, perhaps some graphite powder between the two mating surfaces will help keep keep any movement smooth. Edited December 25, 2015 by Buckjumper Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 Chaz Jim Snowdon pointed out on the G0G forum that the Parkside system is actually "perfectly wrong" and I'm inclined to agree with him. Assume for a moment that one axle is fixed, and the other has the loose axleboxes, and the track has some twist or wind, the load being carried outside the higher wheel will tend to lift the lower wheel, rather than to press it down onto the track. This is likely to lead to an increased likelihood of derailment. My approach to these wagons in future will be to put a rocking point under the centre of one axle, and fix the other, so that the wagon has 3-point compensation - this is obviously easier as the axleboxes already move. Unless I actually spring them, which I doubt. I have a number of wagons already built with "Parkside suspension", which will eventually be modified, if they fall off. To date I haven't had any issues with it, so, even being theoretically incorrect, it does seem to work... All the best to you & yours for a Merry Christmas & Happy New Year Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Isambarduk Posted December 25, 2015 Share Posted December 25, 2015 "Jim Snowdon pointed out on the G0G forum that the Parkside system is actually "perfectly wrong" and I'm inclined to agree with him." You and Jim are quite right. This point has been made many, many times before but still the myth persists that leaving a bit of 'vertical slop' in the axle boxes of wagons will keep the wagon's wheels on the track; it makes some sense for vehicles with inside bearings (eg typical model tenders). I will probably hear now from those who find that it 'works for them' but quite honestly, it does no such thing - at least, not unless the wheels are sufficiently heavy to apply the necessary leverage, such as those used in coarse scale, or the wagon is very light. Three-point suspension or springing addresses the problem properly. That said, nearly all of my swb four-wheel wagons are built rigid and they behave well enough on reasonable track. Time for a Christmas preprandial drink! Cheers ... David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 2ManySpams Posted December 25, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 25, 2015 preprandial - New word of the day, and a useful one too! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 25, 2015 Author Share Posted December 25, 2015 (edited) I remember Pete saying he had a real case of hot boxes with some JLTRT wagons running on Leamington Spa a couple of years ago, but then the distances (and speeds!) a train traverses on Dock Green compared to Leamington is negligible. Even so, perhaps some graphite powder between the two mating surfaces will help keep keep any movement smooth. Yes, I can imagine a train orbitting on Leamington Spa at fully fitted-train speeds might well be subject to wear and tear. But, yes, graphite will be applied. Edited December 25, 2015 by chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 25, 2015 Author Share Posted December 25, 2015 Chaz Jim Snowdon pointed out on the G0G forum that the Parkside system is actually "perfectly wrong" and I'm inclined to agree with him. Assume for a moment that one axle is fixed, and the other has the loose axleboxes, and the track has some twist or wind, the load being carried outside the higher wheel will tend to lift the lower wheel, rather than to press it down onto the track. This is likely to lead to an increased likelihood of derailment. My approach to these wagons in future will be to put a rocking point under the centre of one axle, and fix the other, so that the wagon has 3-point compensation - this is obviously easier as the axleboxes already move. Unless I actually spring them, which I doubt. I have a number of wagons already built with "Parkside suspension", which will eventually be modified, if they fall off. To date I haven't had any issues with it, so, even being theoretically incorrect, it does seem to work... All the best to you & yours for a Merry Christmas & Happy New Year Simon I agree with all of that. "will eventually be modified, if they fall off" - I am still waiting for that to happen! In the mean time if it aint broke don't fix it! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted December 25, 2015 Author Share Posted December 25, 2015 STOP PRESS - Christmas prezzy news? See my Furness Valley thread - link below Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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