Ghost / Parliamentary Trains

[kintbury jon]

Just came across a short video on the ghost trains that run once a week.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18644343

[Taigatrommel]

I quite liked that. No ridicule, just a little glimpse at a curiosity of our system.

[beast66606]

Helsby is hardly worthy of the implied ghost station tag, it has a train service to/from Chester(and North Wales)/Warrington (and Manchester Piccadilly) every hour, more in the peak.

 

The 2F14, 15:17, Helsby - Ellesmere Port mentioned is not really a "ghost" or a "Parly" - it runs 6 days per week, although it might be a little quiet !

 

The 175 departing is one of the hourly Manchester Piccadilly - Llandudno services, which are quite often heaving, especially during the summer.

 

Not a bad little film all in all. (and I know (as in met several times photographing) the hunter)

[DonB]

A friend who is fond of Gilbert and Sullivan operas sent me the link, with the comment that he thought only G&S fans knew about Parliamentary Trains!

Gilbert's verse (IIRC):-

The idiot who on railway carriages

Scribbles on window panes

We only suffer

To ride on a buffer

On Parliamentary Trains

(refrain) they'll none of them be missed ....

Edit ....to make the punishment fit the crime

 

(sorry. got the wrong tune in my head!

 

I think that 'Parliamentary Trains' had a slightly different meaning in Victorian times, indicating a train which had to cater for the lowest class of traveller, the accomodation being little better than a wagon. Or have I mis-remembered my history lessons?

[Gwiwer]

Indeed the term "Parliamentary" has shifted its meaning somewhat down the years.

 

It originated as the term for that train which had to be run offering the lowest class of travel and stopping at all stations. Such trains were a Parliamentary requirement.

 

In recent years the term has become used for those train which run only to avoid the cost and relative inconvenience of a statutory closure process. Almost by definition these trains become of interest to rail enthusiasts as the only service over "rare" track which in some cases used to be a busy main line.

 

The Clapham High Street - Kensington Olympia train is one of many such examples, in this case running once each weekday though is now subject to a formal closure notice. Stockport - Staylbridge is perhaps the best-known example of a once-weekly one-way only service of the kind once referred to as a "sulky" service operated as a contractual obligation rather than satisfying any commercial demand.

[big jim]

i think the train worthy of the "ghost train" tag in the north west is/was (not sure if it still runs) the summer saturday chester to runcorn via frodsham jn and halton jn, it can only go one way is there is no crossover or signalling to come back again, it used to run to lime street iirc but last time i read about it, it terminated at runcorn then ran ESC to lime street

 

never done it personally, even when i was a guard in chester as it was a liverpool traincrew on it (as is the helsby to ellesmere port job, even under FNW)

 

i seem to recall that there was/is a single northern service from helsby to liverpool lime st via bank quay, earlestown, huyton etc in the afternoon as well, runs about school chucking out time around frodsham

 

on my patch we have the once daily gerrards cross to paddington service

 

 

[Gwiwer]

The Gerrard's Cross - Paddington is run for a different reason. Rather than being a Parliamentary service (despite appearances) it is run to retain crew knowledge over the Northolt - Paddington route in case an emergency requires the service to be diverted that way.

 

As an incidental it does also happen to be the only advertised service over the Old Oak Common - Northolt section which would otherwise require a statutory closure process to have been followed after the cessation of the last Paddington - Banbury workings. If only we could still thrash out that way in a decently long rake of Mk2s behind a 50, eh?

[big jim]

The Gerrard's Cross - Paddington is run for a different reason. Rather than being a Parliamentary service (despite appearances) it is run to retain crew knowledge over the Northolt - Paddington route in case an emergency requires the service to be diverted that way.

 

The problem with that is only a handful of aylesbury drivers sign that route so if it does go belly up they have to call them in!

 

Not worth us moor at drivers learning it for how often it would happen (last weekends planned diversions were the first time in 12 months)

 

 

[Roman]

Hi All,

as someone who has worked the Helsby-Ellesmere Port service on a couple of occasions in the last month, I would agree with Dave , that Helsby is not a 'Ghost'station. The Arriva services from here are very well used.

My personal observations on 'usage' of this service are that the 15:17 departure from Helsby is the 'Box of fresh air'. The 15:48 from Helsby to Ellesmere Port has/can have up to 6/7 people on . (it connects with a Manchester -Llandudno service rather nicely).

The 16:04 departure from Ellesmere Port runs through to Warrington Bank Quay arriving there at 16:33 on my last turn I sold tickets on it to Leaminghton Spa and Colwyn Bay!!!

I ve not worked on the morning services over the line for some time as I sign Chester and the afternoon turn keeps me 'Right Road', but there used to be a couple of regular users from Ince and Elton up to the Port.

With reference to Big Jims points over the Halton curve, the service runs 07:53 ex Chester to Runcorn (SO)then ECS into Liverpool Lime ST. The Mid Cheshire Rail users had it extended to Liverpool South Parkway last year and had a vintage bus returning folk to Chester.

HTH

Andy

[roundhouse]

I remember travelling on the Stockport to Stalybridge service a few years ago when it used to run Saturday mornings. It was a busy train. Thats probably why they moved it to a different day of the week!!

[beast66606]

With reference to Big Jims points over the Halton curve, the service runs 07:53 ex Chester to Runcorn (SO)then ECS into Liverpool Lime ST. The Mid Cheshire Rail users had it extended to Liverpool South Parkway last year and had a vintage bus returning folk to Chester.

 

[62613]

Indeed the term "Parliamentary" has shifted its meaning somewhat down the years.

 

It originated as the term for that train which had to be run offering the lowest class of travel and stopping at all stations. Such trains were a Parliamentary requirement.

 

In recent years the term has become used for those train which run only to avoid the cost and relative inconvenience of a statutory closure process. Almost by definition these trains become of interest to rail enthusiasts as the only service over "rare" track which in some cases used to be a busy main line.

 

The Clapham High Street - Kensington Olympia train is one of many such examples, in this case running once each weekday though is now subject to a formal closure notice. Stockport - Staylbridge is perhaps the best-known example of a once-weekly one-way only service of the kind once referred to as a "sulky" service operated as a contractual obligation rather than satisfying any commercial demand.

 

In actual fact, according to the guy who scheduled the service, it was more due to a lack of stock as, when the Transpennine trains began running to Piccadilly instead of victoria, the Stockport-Staly service became redundant; and when the 2nd generation DMUs started arriving in the Northwest, there were fewer replacement units, as BR thought they could do the same with less; obviously not!

[jamie92208]

As well as the above there are several other examples of regular working over odd routes to retain route knowledge. There is one cross country service that goes Sheffield Doncaster via the old GC route through Kilnhurst but I'm not suire how often it happens. I also believe that on Sundays there is an SWT service out of Waterloo onthe main line that goes via Putney and Staines and then takes the westbound fork onto the mainline at Weybridge.

 

Jamie

[PaulRhB]

Not a bad little film all in all. (and I know (as in met several times photographing) the hunter)

I nearly fell off my chair when I saw him, 1st Lord of Wimborne! (we called him that as he knew everyone), Many a highly entertaining eveing at the pub courtesy of Tims escapades, lost track when he moved oop North.

Yes a nice little film and nice to see them avoiding lazy stereotypes and getting an honest reason from the TOC too.

[Gwiwer]

As well as the above there are several other examples of regular working over odd routes to retain route knowledge. There is one cross country service that goes Sheffield Doncaster via the old GC route through Kilnhurst but I'm not suire how often it happens. I also believe that on Sundays there is an SWT service out of Waterloo onthe main line that goes via Putney and Staines and then takes the westbound fork onto the mainline at Weybridge.

 

Jamie

There are plenty of trips via the "Windsor Lines" which end up at Wimbledon depot or other locations but are not (usually) in passenger service. Many run via the Putney Curve onto the District Line at East Putney. Passenger services over this route have been rare (but one or two remain scheduled) since the withdrawal of the SR service many years ago. Most drivers retain route knowledge via Staines and Weybridge / Woking as this is a regualr weekend diversion route and one daily passenger train remains in the timetable as well.

[big jim]

The 16:04 departure from Ellesmere Port runs through to Warrington Bank Quay arriving there at 16:33

 

thats the train i was thinking of, picking up all the darlings at frodsham going to runcorn east!

 

 

As well as the above there are several other examples of regular working over odd routes to retain route knowledge. There is one cross country service that goes Sheffield Doncaster via the old GC route through Kilnhurst but I'm not suire how often it happens.

 

while i was refreshing doncaster the other month i looked at various trains over freight routes i needed to refresh, i found one saturday morning train from derby to sheffield via long eaton, toton centre and the erewash, from chesterfield there was an emt train that went from chesterfield to sheffield via barrow hill and the old road to beighton jn and into sheffield from the north via nunnery jn

 

i did have a link to a website with a countrywide list of oddball trains but it says its exceeded its bandwidth at the moment!

[Gwiwer]

It all used to be in a little book! "Passenger Trains over Ununsual Routes" or something very similar. That slimline volume fitted neatly into your pocket along with your "Combine" and was very handy at times. You could either plan a trip using as many of those workings as possible (sometimes more than one in a day was possible - on summer Saturdays you might even get 3 or 4 rare curves bashed!) or you could use it to see why something you were waiting for hadn't come through on the route you expected - it often turned out to be the one and only working via an obscure routing for Parliamentary or route knowledge purposes.

[eastwestdivide]

 

i did have a link to a website with a countrywide list of oddball trains but it says its exceeded its bandwidth at the moment!

Yes the PSUL site is down - maybe as a result of the BBC piece. There's an alternative at http://www.gensheet.co.uk/timetable.htm.

 

Going back to the Kilnhurst loop - it's a useful tool for regulation: I was recently on a stopper from Doncaster-Sheffield which left about 5-10 mins before a late-running XC service (nonstop) which should have been first out of Donny. As we were pulling out of Swinton, there it was, sneaking past on the Kilnhurst line, and it only delayed us about a minute at Aldwarke Jn.