Weaselfish Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Good evening. I've started to dip my toes in the waters of kit building with, amongst others, an old Cotswold 00 GWR 2021 Pannier tank. It's got the solid brass milled chassis, and a gearwheel. The instructions recommend and X04 or Romford Bulldog. Has anybody fitted a more upto date drive system to the milled chassis and if so, were there any difficulties? Any observations gratefully received. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 (edited) I have the Cotswold L&Y 2-4-2T. I would discard the brass lump and substitute a better chassis. I got some milled frames for mine from Alan Gibson, but then discovered Bill Bedford's brilliant looking chassis so I went with that. It is now languishing on my to do shelf - I need to get it done before Bachmann their version. I'm not familiar with the 2021 but Comet do a Pannier tank chassis kit. A better engineering solution would be that from High Level but prices are much higher than Comet. You will need to check that these suit your particular model. High Level gearboxes are excellent. John Edited July 4, 2012 by brossard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Unfortunately, neither the Comet nor the High Level pannier chassis are any use for a 2021 as they are intended for the much later and larger 57XX/8750 classes. The 2021 was the last of the small Wolverhampton tanks and is really a stretched 850 class with 7'4" + 7'4" wheelbase and 4'11/2" wheels. The 57XX/8750 is 7'3" + 8'3" on 4'71/2" wheels. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyC Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 I recently completed a Nu-Cast C16, this was originally produced by Cotswold and my one has a solid brass milled chassis. I used a Mashima motor and Markits 38:1 2-stage gearbox. To fit this all I did was file out the gear slot from an oval to a rectangular shape. The resulting assembly is quite tall which just fitted in the C16 boiler, so if you decide to try this method I'd do some carefull measurements first. Jeremy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Good evening. I've started to dip my toes in the waters of kit building with, amongst others, an old Cotswold 00 GWR 2021 Pannier tank. It's got the solid brass milled chassis, and a gearwheel. The instructions recommend and X04 or Romford Bulldog. Has anybody fitted a more upto date drive system to the milled chassis and if so, were there any difficulties? Any observations gratefully received. Bulldog motors do come up on Ebay (I have one) but not often, but Airfix did make a 5 pole version (which is quite common and a good runner) of the Hornby motor, which I think has much the same fitting and one of the better quality of Romford style gears sold by Markits may do the job Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
£1.38 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Alan Gibson does milled frames for the 2021 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 .... is really a stretched 850 class with 7'4" + 7'4" wheelbase and 4'11/2" wheels. .... Strangely enough the same measurements used for the much much later 16xx panniers..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Strangely enough the same measurements used for the much much later 16xx panniers..... Not really that strange, the same wheelbases, though with different sized wheels, had a long history in both the large and small tanks. In the large tanks the 57XX/8750 traced their ancestry from the 645, 1813 and 1854 classes and, in turn, led to the 94XX series. The smaller 2021s, themselves an enlarged 850, were intended mostly for shunting but found other uses. When the need arose to replace some of these used for passenger work, the prototypes for the 54/64/7400 series were 2021s fitted with larger wheels. and the same dimensions continued into the production series. Later still, the 16XX, the last GWR design but built under BR, arose because of the need to replace the remaining 2021s, most of which were being withdrawn at that time. Nick 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weaselfish Posted July 8, 2012 Author Share Posted July 8, 2012 Thank you everyone. This has given me some ideas. It sounds like the solid chassis isn't really suitable for modern motors. The 2021 is so small that even the suggested X04 looks like a very tight fit. I'll give Gibson's a call about their frames. I've also got a Nu-Cast 64XX which has the updated chassis with greater detail. I think the two kits were both originally manufactured by Cotswold, so it may be that the later Nu-Cast chassis will also fit the older 2021 - as Horsetan points out the original locomotives had the same wheelbase. A comparison of the model chassis would be interesting. Thanks again all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brossard Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 You'll need frame spacers for your gauge along with top hat bearings for 1/8" axles. Colin at AG will do your frames for rigid construction or can do the hornblock cutouts. If you plan to do compensation, you'll need hornblocks. I don't recommend the AG sprung hornblock design, but Comet and High Level have some very nice stuff. In fact if you haven't done a chassis before, have a read of the downloads on the Comet site. I strongly recommend Iain Rice's Etched Chassis Construction if you can get a copy. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 The problem with the Cotswold 3-coupled solid chassis is not so much their motoring with newer motors, it's the middle axle holes being drilled higher than the outer ones. Throw them away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted September 25, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 25, 2012 Thank you everyone. This has given me some ideas. It sounds like the solid chassis isn't really suitable for modern motors. The 2021 is so small that even the suggested X04 looks like a very tight fit. I'll give Gibson's a call about their frames. I've also got a Nu-Cast 64XX which has the updated chassis with greater detail. I think the two kits were both originally manufactured by Cotswold, so it may be that the later Nu-Cast chassis will also fit the older 2021 - as Horsetan points out the original locomotives had the same wheelbase. A comparison of the model chassis would be interesting. Thanks again all. Hello, If, as some have suggested, you decide to 'discard' the Cotswold/Nucast blocks, I would be very happy to purchase them..... Kind regards, Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thane of Fife Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 I have several old Cotswold kits with the solid brass chassis. I replace the lump chassis with sideframe chassis (Q1 with cut down S&D 2-8-0, L&Y 2-4-2 with Gibson chassis, L&Y 0-8-0 with cut down WD2-8-0). I still have the L&Y 0-6-2T in my roundtuit cupboard and will probably find an equivalent Gibson chassis. The sideframe chassis allow the use of HighLevel gearboxes. Malcolm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon A Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 (edited) The 2021 has been rereleased jointly by Dave Ellis - South Eastern Finecast and Brian - Branchlines, Westbury with a new etched chassis. If you contact either of these gentlemen I am sure they will sell you a chassis etch. Gordon A Edited June 15, 2019 by Gordon A 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
5050 Posted June 15, 2019 Share Posted June 15, 2019 4 hours ago, Gordon A said: The 2021 has been rereleased jointly by Dave Ellis - South Eastern Finecast and Brian - Branchlines, Westbury with a new etched chassis. If you contact either of these gentlemen I am sure they will sell you a chassis etch. Gordon A Just the job for a Forest of Dean layout! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 The 2021 was an 850 with a longer firebox and the wheelbase lengthened to allow the longer firebox. They were very much mixed traffic locos and did a lot of main line work in their early years including fast passenger work. Dean built tank locos for main line work because authorisation for new build was based on weight and if they didn't have tenders then more locos could be built within that weight. In later years they became branch locos and were maintained as a standard class until the 57XX were reclassified Yellow which displaced the 2021s. The 2021 chassis was continued as the 54XX/64XX/74XX locos and also the BR produced 16XX. Biggest problem is finding the 4ft 1in wheels with out having to remortgage the shed. Difficult loco to model convincingly, they sat very low with the buffer centre line only just below the running plate, but almost an essential loco for any Great Western era layout. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Moore Posted August 13, 2019 Share Posted August 13, 2019 I have a cotswold lyr 2-4-2 tank to build & I'm planning to mill out the centre a bit more to fit a motor/gearbox into. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted August 13, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 13, 2019 (edited) I built a GN Long Tom and milled out the chassis (with a pillar drill) and fitted a Branchlines box and Mashima. Edited August 13, 2019 by chris p bacon correction 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denbridge Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 The etched chassis for the re-issued 2021 is available from Dave at SE finecast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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