Semaphore Signals - 4mm Scale (Mainly)

[Veen]

Hi John,

 

Thanks for your comments.

I'll try to answer your query, but if I can't explain it well enough, please contact me by a PM and we can arrange to chat on the phone.

 

N/S base:

Size is large enough to cover the larger brass tube which "plants" the signal in the baseboard.

Typically 0.5 in dia tube needs about 15mm wide N/S base.

(This tube is key to installation and keeping servos and signal aligned.

 

Length of baseplate front to back is sufficient to cover tube again at front, plus enough to support Ladder base at rear.

Thickness is about 0.45mm for stiffness.

 

Space on Baseboard:

Above ground, just enough for the base-plate of the signal.

Remember to allow for the "loading gauge" giving distances to track centres etc. particularly on curves!

 

Space under baseboard:

Depends how you fix your Servos.

Typically, a 50mm radius around the "planting" tube will be plenty.

If things get in the way, such as point m,otors, strengthening timbers etc. you have to be inventive in designing the servo installation.

In extreme cases you may have to resort to extra cranks, levers, rods etc.

 

The design I have documented in my Topic is what I call "semi-permanent" installation.

It is possible with care to disconnect the operating links from the servos, and ease the signals up out of the baseboard. (The reverse of the installation process).

They are only held in place by friction.

 

If you really need "removeable" signals, then you need to spring load the operating links, and allow them to be pushed upwards by the servo horn. (Acting like a Cam & Follower).

This will allow the signal to be withdrawn without any mechanical "un-coupling" being necessary.

 

Hope this all makes sense??????????????????

 

Steve.

 

Hi Steve,

 

Many thanks for your reply. Quite clear thanks without the direct chat. Will have to get to a show where you are demonstrating and meet up.

 

Regards

 

John

[Steve Hewitt]

Hi Steve,

 

Many thanks for your reply. Quite clear thanks without the direct chat. Will have to get to a show where you are demonstrating and meet up.

 

Regards

 

John

Hi John,

 

I'll look forward to that.

The only "demo" booking I've got at present is for the Warley show at the NEC in November.

 

Steve.

[G.M.R.]

Hi Steve. Let me say I'm in awe of your work, given the constraints of 4mm.

Two questions

1. I'm modelling a1970 -80s Irish rail layout. This uses tubular lower quadrant signals. Most are simple single pole. One or two have dollies or a bracket

However these signals tended to have the weights close to the arm. , this means the linkage going through cranks down to the servo is very un prototypical.

Would operating the signal using polyester thread ( to the servo ) and arranging the return operation under gravity be feasible. Obviously a clear snag free path for the thread would be needed.

Your views.

( b). Could you give us a list of the most useful brass and /or nickel silver tubes wires and box section you find most useful.

Thanks

Dave

Dave, sorry for a very late reply, but having only recently read through Steve's wonderful thread in depth, I have just seen your question about gravity return of model semaphores. I have built a few models now driven by memory wire motors. They only pull. So I use thread over pulleys. The return is pure gravity. If you would like to see more, I can add more details on my layout thread.

 

Sorry, but my modelling is not a patch on Steve's, as you can see from the photo!

 

Geoff

 

[G.M.R.]

This is what the final model looks like on the layout

 

 

And a couple of other models also driven by memory wire

 

 

[Steve Hewitt]

I've not been completely idle..........

 

Its a while since I reported on my signal projects, but I have been busy in my workshop.

 

The latest project is a set of signals for Garsdale, which is a station on the Carlisle layout.

This enormous EM gauge layout is located in France and several RMwebbers are contributing to it.

I have reported several signal builds in the past.

 

This time, for expediency's sake, I have tackled all the signals required for this location, which many will know is on the Settle to Carlisle line.

The requirement is for some ten signals, with eleven arms.

Even my maths indicates that most are therefore single arm signals

 

They are a mixture of LMS/BR round post upper quadrants, MR square posts with upper quadrant arms, and some MR lower quadrant.  There is one lattice bracket with a single round doll.

The only double arm signal is a square post with upper quadrant arms, but with the arms facing oposing directions.

 

This signal diagram shows them all:

 

I've made a good start on all the "none moving" structures.

This shows all the single post signals almost ready for the paintshop.

The Bracket signal is on my workbench..........

 

More soon....

 

Steve.

Edited October 20, 2015 by SteveAtBax

[Steve Hewitt]

Another first for me.....

 

The MR Square post signals in the picture are using 3D printed posts.

Les Green did the necessary technical stuff for me.

They are printed with a hollow centre so that I can run the fibre optic inside.

 

Until I can find a Resin  flux to allow me to solder things, assembly requires Cyano, which I'm becoming more confident with as time goes by.

Where appropriate I try to re-inforce joints with pins, but these are necessarily short to avoid the hole where the fibre will go!

 

This is the lamp bracket:

 

The cast Lamp was drilled for the fibre:

 

A N/S wire soldered into the base as re-inforcement:

 

The sub assembly ready to be fixed to the post:

 

The MSE cast Finial:

 

was turned to fit the hollow post:

 

 

More soon......

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

Here's the start of the Bracket Signal.......

 

This is the best photo I've got of the signal:

 

Unfortunately, signal 23 gets tangled up in the shot.

 

I've used a MSE Etch for the main lattice stem and a cast bracket from Scale Signal Supply, then everything else is scratched:

 

I wasn't happy with the basic etched post as it lacked a certain "weight" which is seen in the prototype photo.

I separated the four lattice sides and assembled them using 1mm x 1mm brass angle.

Bit fiddly,but I think the result is OK?

 

The staging, operating cranks etc will be next, then the Doll, which will just slot into its bush which I used to set the spacing of the Trimmers. This was turned from Brass bar.

 

Steve.

[Jon Fitness]

Here's the start of the Bracket Signal.......

 

This is the best photo I've got of the signal:

Garsdale up starters 23 and 10 -3.jpg

 

Unfortunately, signal 23 gets tangled up in the shot.

 

I've used a MSE Etch for the main lattice stem and a cast bracket from Scale Signal Supply, then everything else is scratched:

RIMG1972.jpg

 

I wasn't happy with the basic etched post as it lacked a certain "weight" which is seen in the prototype photo.

I separated the four lattice sides and assembled them using 1mm x 1mm brass angle.

Bit fiddly,but I think the result is OK?

 

The staging, operating cranks etc will be next, then the Doll, which will just slot into its bush which I used to set the spacing of the Trimmers. This was turned from Brass bar.

 

Steve.

It certainly does look OK! A lovely rendition of one of my favorite types of signal structure. Pretty sure Alan Gibson does a 4mm scale kit of it too...

JF

[Horsetan]

.... I use thread over pulleys. The return is pure gravity.....

 

You're in good company, as the late Frank Dyer used much the same method on his signalling for Borchester Market - all UQ with cotton thread and gravity return.

[Steve Hewitt]

The Bracket continued......

 

The basic structure required several parts to be added:

 

First the staging supports and handrail stanchions

 

and the pivot for the Crank:

This is cobbled from a off-cut of etch with a 16BA nut soldered behind.
The pivot shaft will be a 16BA screw.

 

The Doll was assembled next:

 

The Doll is 2mm Brass Tube, with an Alan Gibson  turned brass Finial.

The Arm Bearing / Lamp etc. is one of the 3D Printed parts.

The Crank pivot is another MSE etch with a 16BA nut.

This is mounted on a fixing cut from 2.5mm square brass, drilled to fit the Doll and cut away to leave just the two fixing hoops represented:

 

The Cast Resin "Shoe" was added, and determines the height of the Doll:

 

The Doll was fixed in place, in the turned housing seen earlier, which was also used to space the Trimmers.

Finally, the lower Shoe was added.

 

The assembled signal was next mounted on its Baseplate.

The Handrail was bent up from 0.4mm N/S wire and soldered in place.

 

Finally the Ladder was added:

 

I think there's just the Cap for the main post to make and fit.

I'm thinking of a 3D printed item, as I find filing these little pyramids a real pain.

 

Soon be bath-time for all these Carsdale signals - first in Cif then Cellulose Thinners before a visit to the Paint Shop.

 

Steve.

 

 

 

 

[G.M.R.]

Looks superb as usual. Are you leaving the crank in place during painting? And how do you keep paint out of the 16ba nut on the other crank pivot?

[Steve Hewitt]

Hi Geoff,

 

Yes, I'll leave it in place.

I just give it a bit of a twist between coats to keep it free.

 

The other 16BA nut will be cleaned out with a 16BA Tap.

 

All the other pivots and fibre optic holes will get cleaned with a drill or a broach, depending how much paint gets in there.

 

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

Whilst waiting for the paint to dry.....

 

All these signals will be installed on a baseboard with a total thickness of some 14mm.

Whilst the paint was drying, I made the "Transport & Test" frame which will be used for the remainder of the assembly and commissioning processes.

 

The frame top surface is the required 14mm thick.

The frame will hold each signal with enough space beneath for the servo mount.

 

Each signal is identified by its Lever Number from the supplied Signal Box Diagram.

 

All the mounting holes are 1/2in dia except one which is 5/8in dia.

This is for the only 2-arm signal, that has one arm for each direction, requiring the operating wires to be placed one on each side of the post!

 

Once the paint had dried, the signals were tried in the frame:

 

This in turn will be carried in a "Really Useful Box Co." box:

The lid is a close fit on the frame, and will stop it moving about.

It will also be mechanically retained.

 

I was now able to make all the servo mounts.

Each is individually crafted to align the Operating Wire with the Servo Horn.

 

The arrow indicates the orientation of the servo with the front of the signal.

 

Here they all are:

 

Next comes the fiddly part - installing the fibre optics and all the moving bits.

 

Steve.

 

 

[Steve Hewitt]

Continuing....

 

I spent a productive hour this morning mounting all the servos on the T&T frame:

 

 

Then I got on with the "Fiddly Bits"

I've completed the basic assembly of the Bracket - signal 10.

Its not yet connected to its servo, and still awaits the post cap, which Les Green is having 3D printed for me.

 

First I installed the fibre optic:

Out of the rear of the lamp, it is tie-wrapped to the doll down to the staging level.

Along the inside of the Trimmers:

 

 

Then down inside the lattice post to be terminated underground:

 

The operating wires were connected in "reverse" i.e. I started with the signal arm, and its connection to the Doll mounted crank:

 

The link to the next crank, by the main post, was next:

 

 

Down the post to the Weight Bar:

 

And on down below ground level. Sorry its a bit dark.

 

Last job on this signal for now was the Wooden staging:

 

 

 

More soon, I hope. (I'd like to have these signals on my demo stand at Warley).

 

Steve.

 

[LNERGE]

Super stuff. I don't like the wooden staging. Too realistic. I can feel my knees knocking together now. Slippery rotten planks are a nightmare of mine. At least the handrails are attached to steelwork. Some I've come across use the slippery rotten woodwork to support them too.

[Jon Fitness]

I keep forgetting these are only 4mm scale! Beautiful work Steve. I'll see you at Warley!

Jon F.

[Steve Hewitt]

Construction 99% complete.......

 

Here are all the signals on the T&T frame:

 

and from the other side:

 

You will notice the post cap is missing from the bracket signal, but Les has drawn it up, and it will be printed soon.

 

Spaghetti time underneath:

This will get far worse when all the LEDs are connected to the Fibre Optics, and the servo leads extended to the Controllers

 

A couple of closer shots:

This is the first Midland Rly signal I've ever built.

The unusual arrangement of the Backlight Blinder and the method of pivoting the arm on a fixed axle were new to me, and proved quite challenging.

 

This is the only Two-Arm signal in this set, and has one arm for each direction:

 

It's modeled after being converted to Upper Quadrant.

 

Next task was to connect all the signals to their servos.

 

i.e. this gap has to be bridged:

 

This is the 1/16in tube I use to link the Operating wire to the Servo Horn:

 

Although all are similar, each is carefully tailored to fit exactly, keeping the pull on the operating wire as true as possible.

 

To facilitate soldering to the 1/32in tube sleeving the operating wire, I cut a hole through the side of the tube:

 

With the connecting tube in place, and the servo set to "Safe" i.e. in mid-position:

 

I adjust the signal arm to a position between Danger and Clear.

 

A drop of Flux and a little solder on a hot iron fixes thing:

 

That's where  things are for now.

 

As I want this lot working on my Warley demo stand, I now have to install all ten LED's and the GF Controllers.

 

More soon, I hope.

 

Steve.

 

edited for finger trouble

Edited November 13, 2015 by SteveAtBax

[Jon Fitness]

Love that 2 arm one Steve! I'm now looking for an excuse to include one on my layout...

JF

[The Stationmaster]

Love that 2 arm one Steve! I'm now looking for an excuse to include one on my layout...

JF

It's a smashing looking signal and would have made considerable sense on the curvature there - if it had been sited on the opposite side of the line!

[Steve Hewitt]

Warley.....

 

Car all packed, ready to collect my friend Rob Harrison then off to the NEC.

We'll be on my demo stand at Warley.  A53.

 

Do come and say "Hello".

 

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

.....Warley

 

Rob and I got home safely after a wet and busy M6.

Thoroughly enjoyable weekend at the show.

Very busy, particularly Saturday - one visitor on Sunday said he'd not been able to get near our stand on Saturday, we were so busy.

 

Very nice to chat with several RMwebbers - I hope we were able to explain, advise, encourage and occasionally entertain.

 

Any suggestions about how we might improve our display will be gratefully received.

 

Once everything is put away in the shed and loft, its back to work on a GWR square post Home & Distant.

Details or at least pictures, will be posted in due course.

 

Steve.

[Michael Delamar]

Steve at Warley with the signals he has built for me

 

[Jon Fitness]

Steve at Warley with the signals he has built for me

 

image.jpg

the proud Father!!

[LNER4479]

Hi Steve,

 

Good to be able to say 'hi' at Warley. Inspirational work indeed

[Isambard Kingdom Brunel]

I hope you dont mind me asking a couple of questions regarding signal building.

 

I am building a 16ft tall Home Signal for Llanfyllin from a MSE kit, but, am a bit confused by some of the instructions regarding fitting the balance weight

 

It tells me to solder a washer to the end of a 26swg nickel silver axle, then pass the axle through the bracket trapping the balance lever in the bracket

 

The instructions then say to drill a hole through left and right faces of post and push the axle through the post from the left hand side

 

Questions:

If the Washer is between the post and the bracket should it really be soldered to the end of the axle?

Which is the left and roght of a signal? 

I have photos of signals, but, no close ups of the balance weight fitting, however it seems that some have the balance weights under the arm and others under the spectacle plate, that is really confusing. The photos of the GWR/Cambrian signal at Llanfyllin does not show the balance lever