RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted October 11, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 11, 2017 Maybe I can get this one right.... 816 in Feb 1969 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEDDYBEAR D9521 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Here are the repaint dates for BR blue full yellow ends with BR arrow under nameplate and D prefix removed. D816 26/2/69 D831 4/3/69 D824 23/4/69 D814 23/5/69 D828 12/7/69 D829 10/69 also D870 is shown the same date D813 28/11/69 There are a few that even got reprints some by Laira as late as 1971. Hope this helps Cheers Gareth Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 So there were 4 variations of blue on warships.... D864 - as detailed above Then numerous with numbers and arrows under cab windows at both ends - which D864 subsequently acquired and ran with until scrapped Then D846/7 with arrows over nameplate - D847 went for scrap in this variant Finally Arrows under nameplate - is that the variant you are querying? IIRC 42s only carried versions 2 and 4 of BFYE. And there were also variations of which number font was used certainly within version 2. Cheers Phil Regarding D846 and D847, there was a subtle difference between the two as D847's numbers were applied closer to the cab doors for some reason. D846 was subsequently repainted into the 'standard' BFYE style, but only ran for a short while like this before being withdrawn, photos of it in this guise are quite rare. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted October 17, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 17, 2017 Absolutely Nige...didn't D846 catch fire, precipitating the repaint? Seems it really wasn't until the final arrows under nameplate Bfye that Swindon finally standardised... Up to that point no such thing as standard livery application! Cheers Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 17, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 17, 2017 Absolutely Nige...didn't D846 catch fire, precipitating the repaint? Seems it really wasn't until the final arrows under nameplate Bfye that Swindon finally standardised... Up to that point no such thing as standard livery application! Cheers Phil Good job they didn't get into NSE. When i covered the DC Lines there were more livery variations on the 313s than sets. Some were different within the sets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark alden Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Something I started some time ago... to be completed when I get the time... but hopefully some use to some of you.. DRAWINGS ISSUED FOR LIVERY ALTERATIONS SL/SW/1342 Painting, Lining & letter spacing diagram A 25/06/58 Nameplate numbers & route discs reposioned, applied line reduced from 6¼" to 3". B 02/09/58 Serifs added to letter 'D'. C 13/11/58 Nameplate lowered from 6 7/8 " below louvres to 8 7/8 ". Draw hook protector plate altered from Red to Black. Length of red buffer beam stopped 1" from buffer flanges. D 06/04/67 Livery of body altered from Green to Rail Blue. Yellow warning colour added B.S. o.ooo0 added. BR small crest altered to symbol. 2'-6" white and prefix and numerals to loco. number, using Rail Alphabet. E 18/12/68 BR symbol and loco number repositioned - loco data panel added. R A discs removed. Corres. REF. DS.03327 F 28/01/69 BR Symbol loco number and data panel repositioned - MOB ref MB 414/95. OHLW DE locomotives started having Overhead Live Wire Warning notices fitted from April 1961, the earliest Warship fitted was D805 (28/07/61). D870 only D800 class known new with OHLW notices. GSYE D859-D865 from New; D822 first D800 (26/01/62), D834 first D833 (16/01/62) MSYE D811 first D800 (05/10/65); D857 first D833 (22/09/65). 863????? MFYE D811 first D800 (30/08/67); D834 first D833 (08/02/68). BSYE D831 first D800 (30/11/66); D833 NIL. BFYE D819 first D800 (By 05/67); D864 first D833 (XX/11/66). 1968 version (Sans Gill numbers, with D, arrows on cab sides with red dots) D821 11/01/68 1969 version (Sans Gill numbers no D, arrow under nameplates) from 18/12/68 (see DRAWING ALTS ; E) D831 first D800 (04/03/69); D833 first D833 (By 09/69). ORDER TO MAROON AND VARIATIONS 22/09/65 D857 Point Numbers low (in GSY livery position). 05/10/65 D811 Flat No top lamp bracket. May of departed 05/11/65? 04-09/10/65 D863 Point Actual departure date not known. Departed between dates shown. 08/10/65 D858 Point 26/10/65 D862 May be 26/11/65. 11/11/65 D865 14/12/65 D829 Actual departure date not known but date likely. 31/12/65 D812 07/01/66 D805 XX/01/66 D813 XX/01/66 D869 Departed between 05/12/65 - 23/01/66. XX/01/66 D870 Departed between 05/12/65 - 23/01/66. 24/02/66 D839 04/03/66 D809 06/03/66 D828 By this date. XX/03/66 D844 06/04/66 D802 06/05/66 D821 13/05/66 D855 10/06/66 D834 XX/06/66 D832 By 17/06/66 22/06/66 D848 24/06/66 D801 28/06/66 D806 28/06/66 D838 By this date. 23/08/66 D815 30/08/66 D823 May be earlier 06/66. 23/09/66 D861 XX/09/66 D817 XX/09/66 D867 03/10/66 D842 20/10/66 D840 ORDER TO BLUE AND VARIATIONS Loco / details in bold indicate no photographic evidence of livery variation. /11/66 D864 Blue Full Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers under engine room windows. 30/11/66 D831 Blue Panel ● Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers under engine room windows. 08/01/67 D830 Blue Panel Small double arrow above name plate, Serif numbers on cab side. /01/67 D846 Blue Full Small double arrow above name plate, Serif numbers on cab side. 24/02/67 D847 Blue Full Small double arrow above name plate, Serif numbers on cab side. 28/04/67 D857 Blue Full Small double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side. /05/67 D819 Blue Full Small double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side. /06/67 D864 Blue Full DP low by 6/69 Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side. /06/67 D859 Blue Full Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side. 08/06/67 D818 Blue Full Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side. 05/07/67 D813 Blue Full Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side. 06/07/67 D849 Blue Full Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side. /08/67 D820 Blue Full Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side. 11/08/67 D827 Blue Full Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side. 25/08/67 D814 Blue Full Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side. 26/09/67 D841 Blue Full Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side. 27/09/67 D816 Blue Full Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side. 10/10/67 D802 Blue Full Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side. /10/67 D853 Blue Full Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side. 06/11/67 D804 Blue Full Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side. 06/11/67 D807 Blue Full Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side. 28/11/67 D803 Blue Full Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side. /12/67 D843 Blue Full Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side. /12/67 D863 Blue Full Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side. /12/67 D868 Blue Full DP by arrow (69+) Double arrow on cab side, Serif numbers on cab side. 11/01/68 D821 Blue Full ● Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side. 19/01/68 D826 Blue Full ● Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side. /02/68 D860 Blue Full Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side 27/03/68 D822 Blue Full ● Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side. 28/03/68 D835 Blue Full ● Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side. 09/04/68 D836 Blue Full ● Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side. 07/05/68 D851 Blue Full ● (5/68) then DP low (10/69) Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side. 14/05/68 D850 Blue Full ● Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side. 21/05/68 D820 Blue Full DP fitted later Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side. 20/06/68 D849 Blue Full DP by arrow later Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side. 09/07/68 D837 Blue Full DP low / ● other end Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side. /07/68 D843 Blue Full Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side. /07/68 D808 Blue Full ● Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side. 17/09/68 D866 Blue Full DP low Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side. /10/68 D819 Blue Full DP by arrow / ● x 4 Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side. 28/10/68 856 Blue Full DP low Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side. 27/11/68 825 Blue Full ● & DP Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side. 27/12/68 803 Blue Full DP by arrow Double arrow on cab side, Gill Sans numbers on cab side. 18/12/68 Livery variation ‘1969’ version Drawing Ref. No. SL/SW/1342/E BR symbol and loco number repositioned - loco data panel added. R A discs removed. 26/02/69 816 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. 04/03/69 831 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. 23/04/69 824 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. 23/05/69 814 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. 12/07/69 828 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. 12/09/69 857 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. 19/09/69 823 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. /09/69 833 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. /09/69 865 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. 14/10/69 858 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. /10/69 829 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. /10/69 870 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. 21/11/69 852 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. 28/11/69 813 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. /11/69 844 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. 05/12/69 854 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. 02/01/70 855 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. 20/02/70 845 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. 27/04/70 862 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. 17/06/70 841 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. /06/70 843 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. /06/70 846 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. /07/70 839 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. 10/08/70 869 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. 25/09/70 867 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. 17/10/70 842 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. /11/70 833 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. 20/01/71 834 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. 08/03/71 861 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. 08/04/71 835 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. 23/04/71 827 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. 06/06/71 868 Blue Full Laira alteration Double arrow under name, Serif numbers on cab side. 07/07/71 826 Blue Full Laira Repaint Double arrow under name, Serif numbers on cab side. 10/08/71 818 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. 18/08/71 821 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. 06/09/71 820 Blue Full DP on cab side Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. 26/09/72 818 Blue Full Red names off E exam. Double arrow under name, Gill sans numbers on cab side. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted October 31, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 31, 2017 Smashing Mark - very useful, thank you! Am sure I have seen a photo of D849 with double arrows on cab side and serif numbers - will see if I can track link down And here we go - not the one I was thinking of which is at Plymouth coupled to a maroon Stanier coach but same configuration... http://colourrail.co.uk/api/image/medium/099b7634-4c71-46d4-9001-45dd861ce32c Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D860 VICTORIOUS Posted October 31, 2017 Share Posted October 31, 2017 Smashing Mark - very useful, thank you! Am sure I have seen a photo of D849 with double arrows on cab side and serif numbers - will see if I can track link down And here we go - not the one I was thinking of which is at Plymouth coupled to a maroon Stanier coach but same configuration... http://colourrail.co.uk/api/image/medium/099b7634-4c71-46d4-9001-45dd861ce32c Phil Hi Phil, Aforementioned picture of D849 Superb with d/arrows and serif numbers is in "Warships in Colour" by John Jennison. The caption states that the picture was taken at Teignmouth-should this be near Torquay...? Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Strathwood Posted November 1, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 1, 2017 Hi Phil, Aforementioned picture of D849 Superb with d/arrows and serif numbers is in "Warships in Colour" by John Jennison. The caption states that the picture was taken at Teignmouth-should this be near Torquay...? Neil Leaving D818 Glory aside, was 821 Greyhound repainted by Swindon, Old Oak or Stewarts Lane early in December 1971 as I recall seeing it at the Lane being prepared for a Royal or dignitary special which as I recall didn't happen as there was some sort of union dispute on, does anyone else know anymore? So was 821 one of the very last full depot repaints? Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted November 1, 2017 Share Posted November 1, 2017 Leaving D818 Glory aside, was 821 Greyhound repainted by Swindon, Old Oak or Stewarts Lane early in December 1971 as I recall seeing it at the Lane being prepared for a Royal or dignitary special which as I recall didn't happen as there was some sort of union dispute on, does anyone else know anymore? So was 821 one of the very last full depot repaints? Kevin The state visit of Emperor Hirohito of Japan IIRC. A locomotive with two engines (insurance against failure) was needed and a class with which the Southern was familiar. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Strathwood Posted November 2, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 2, 2017 The state visit of Emperor Hirohito of Japan IIRC. A locomotive with two engines (insurance against failure) was needed and a class with which the Southern was familiar. Geoff Endacott Well done Geoff, I seem to recall something about D5518 being substituted by Stratford as part of this chaos at the time too? Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark alden Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 The Hiro Hito job was Tuesday 5th October 1971. 821 was released from Swindon ex works on 18/08/71. On 4th September the loco was still in a very clean external condition and it remained in traffic until 24th September when LA gave it a B exam lasting 4 days. Its external condition was good enough for Royal train duty and so on the 28th it worked to OC for HQ Inspection special exam and Royal preperations. On the 29th it worked across LD to SL and remained there until it was used on the 5th. On the 3rd OC sent over 827 to SL and both locos were 'bulled' up by SL staff. Neither loco were repainted, just given a real good buff and shine. The use of 800's on the Royal on the SR was actually political move. Normal traction for Royals at that time on the SR was Class 31s worked by Stratford men and the SR drivers were not overly impressed at not being able to do the Royals on their own patch. So 800s were diagrammed to be used to break the Stratford monoply. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted November 2, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 2, 2017 So how many warship liveries on shed at the same time? Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westerner Posted November 2, 2017 Author Share Posted November 2, 2017 You can't have enough Warships. Although I would prefer them all green with just the odd maroon rather than blue with 1 green and a couple of maroon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark alden Posted November 2, 2017 Share Posted November 2, 2017 Just as an update to the 800's on the Royal... The reason that SF men using 31s were used was because the SR had no allocated steam heat fitting locos after the end of 1968 when the Class 70 locos were withdrawn. Although they were DC electric locos they had steam heat boilers and the Royal train, at that time, was steam heat only. From 1977 the Royal train was upgraded to include MKIII coaches (ex 252001 prototype HST) and the other vehicles were fitted with ETH so 33/73's could be used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Strathwood Posted November 3, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 3, 2017 The Hiro Hito job was Tuesday 5th October 1971. 821 was released from Swindon ex works on 18/08/71. On 4th September the loco was still in a very clean external condition and it remained in traffic until 24th September when LA gave it a B exam lasting 4 days. Its external condition was good enough for Royal train duty and so on the 28th it worked to OC for HQ Inspection special exam and Royal preperations. On the 29th it worked across LD to SL and remained there until it was used on the 5th. On the 3rd OC sent over 827 to SL and both locos were 'bulled' up by SL staff. Neither loco were repainted, just given a real good buff and shine. The use of 800's on the Royal on the SR was actually political move. Normal traction for Royals at that time on the SR was Class 31s worked by Stratford men and the SR drivers were not overly impressed at not being able to do the Royals on their own patch. So 800s were diagrammed to be used to break the Stratford monoply. All good stuff Mark, but as I recall 821 was stood inside Stewarts Lane on 4 December 1971 having just been repainted, so the dates don't match, therefore it must have been for some other "special" job on this occasion. I am pretty sure of the date as I recall it being on one of the Dalescroft Railfan's tours of London that day. Although it was all home turf for me I still went along s with a coach we got around more places than I would have done using the tube and buses around London. Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Strathwood Posted November 3, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 3, 2017 So how many warship liveries on shed at the same time? IMG_6348.JPG Phil What no blue half yellow front, ie D830 or D831, or green full yellow ie D808 & D810? tut tut... Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark alden Posted November 3, 2017 Share Posted November 3, 2017 All good stuff Mark, but as I recall 821 was stood inside Stewarts Lane on 4 December 1971 having just been repainted, so the dates don't match, therefore it must have been for some other "special" job on this occasion. I am pretty sure of the date as I recall it being on one of the Dalescroft Railfan's tours of London that day. Although it was all home turf for me I still went along s with a coach we got around more places than I would have done using the tube and buses around London. Kevin Saturday 4th December 1971.. On this date 821 was at Yeovil Junction all day (07.45 - 22.00) acting as a stand-by loco in case something failed on the route between Exmouth Junction & Salisbury. Both 818 & 827 were on Royal duties on the SR, 818 was used, 827 was the stand-by and the Royal job was on the 7th conveying the King of Afganistan from Gatwick to Victoria. After the event, on the 8th, 818 became derailed in SL and required the A end front valances re-bashed into a reasonable shape. 827 was sent LD SL to EH to work the 00.05 to STJ. 818 however had to go to NA for a proper repair and it made its way to OC via Clapham Yard arriving at OC in the early hours of the 10th. On the 11th 818 worked the 01.15 freight from Acton to Exeter and then went LD to NA for a 'proper job' repair returning to traffic on the 13th. Nether 818 or 827 had been repainted, again both were bulled up by SL staff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted November 3, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 3, 2017 What no blue half yellow front, ie D830 or D831, or green full yellow ie D808 & D810? tut tut... Kevin Well spotted Kevin! But there's a reason....can you guess what it is? Hee Hee Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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