Platform surfaces

[sn]

I'm presently irritated by the fact that my otherwise not bad looking platform surfaces (course emery paper atop foam board) are spolit by the joins in the emery paper. I've tried filling in with weathering powders in the join before spraying

but the join (unlike Ernie Wises's !) is still visible afterwards . Very annoying . Anyone have a solution to this?

 

I'm also considering abandoning this approach altogether and using sand or very very fine gravel glued onto the foamboard top and then spray. Anyone used this approach?

[Coombe Barton]

How coarse?

 

Just done some looking up of aggregate sizes used in tarmac (which I'm assuming that you're using, or something similar) and found that the top dressing size is either 3mm, 6mm, 10mm or, exceptionally 14mm aggregate. These equate to, in grit grades for emery paper:

• 3mm - 360/400 grit - classified as very fine/extra fine
  
• 6mm - 180 grit - classified as very fine
  
• 10mm - 120 grit - classified as very fine
  
• 14mm - 100 grit - classified as fine
  

So, depending on your scale, sand (or gravel) is, in 4mm, going to be a little large. Even very fine sand is pushing it in 4mm. These are the classifications and 4mm equivalents.

• Fine gravel - 457mm +/- 50%
  
• Very fine gravel - 229 mm +/- 50%
  
• Very coarse sand - 114 mm +/- 50%
  
• Coarse sand - 57 mm +/- 50%
  
• Medium sand - 29 mm +/- 50%
  
• Fine sand - 14 mm +/- 50%
  
• Very fine sand - 7 mm +/- 50%
  

Your choice, though.

[sn]

That is a good bit of research!

 

Hmmnn

[Coombe Barton]

In similar vein the embossings of stone in mortar I see on many model buildings just look overscale to me.

[Kenton]

could you not disguise the join as a join / repair in the platform surface?

 

I am surprised that your platform is so long that it exceeds a roll size of emery paper.

 

Though believe that a tarmac surface is better represented by an inert powder rather than a grit (sand).

[Removed a/c]

Have you ran a marker of similar colour along the join line before gluing down?

 

You could also try tearing the edge so it isn't so uniform. You have to do it backwards as you want the top surface to have the ripped part underneath (hope that makes sense)

[BRealistic]

Have you considred using DAS modelling clay... like Chris Nevard did on his Polbrook project (Model Rail No. 171, page 61). Looks spot on to me.

[sn]

could you not disguise the join as a join / repair in the platform surface?

 

I am surprised that your platform is so long that it exceeds a roll size of emery paper.

 

Though believe that a tarmac surface is better represented by an inert powder rather than a grit (sand).

 

My sheets are only about 6 inches in length

[Chris Nevard]

If you want to use abrasive paper you should be able to buy it in a roll from a trade place. Edging might be tricky though

DAS is fine, you can add the platform coping stones (1mm plastic card used here) then inlay DAS, paint grey then wash over a a light beige.

 

 

 

 

[Silver Sidelines]

Good Evening

 

Just for a comparison - here is my attempt at using emery paper within balsa wood. If you look carefully you can see the join in the sheets. I think I am correct but in the real word asphalt is laid in 'bays' in much the same way as concrete and you might expect to find a tar or bitumen join between the different bays - just like the bitumen strip round utility repairs.

 

 

Over the last few weeks I have been detailing the use of sand / paste mixes. These can be made very dark by the addition of coal dust. You might also be interested to see how Hornby Scenics can be used to provide a uniform road surface.

 

It might be an alternative way forward for you.

 

Regards

 

Ray

[BRealistic]

Chris Nevard said.....

 

"DAS is fine, you can add the platform coping stones (1mm plastic card used here) then inlay DAS, paint grey then wash over a a light beige."

 

 

More than spot on, Chris, that's bl**dy wonderful! Trying to fathom out how you 'textured' the coping stones.

[kandc_au]

If you want to use abrasive paper you should be able to buy it in a roll from a trade place. Edging might be tricky though

DAS is fine, you can add the platform coping stones (1mm plastic card used here) then inlay DAS, paint grey then wash over a a light beige.

 

Chris,

Have you done a detailed how to for this sort of thing?

 

Khris

[Dave777]

How do you get the DAS clay so evenly spread as well? That's an aspect I've struggled with.

[sn]

If you want to use abrasive paper you should be able to buy it in a roll from a trade place. Edging might be tricky though

DAS is fine, you can add the platform coping stones (1mm plastic card used here) then inlay DAS, paint grey then wash over a a light beige.

 

 

 

I didn't know you could buy it in a large roll. That may be the way forward then. Thanks

 

Silver, I take your point about the bituman joints too. Thanks

[Chris Nevard]

How do you get the DAS clay so evenly spread as well? That's an aspect I've struggled with.

 

Lots of practice, preted you're rolling pastry.

Note the bush in one of the shots = texture

 

 

Rolls of sandpaper:

https://www.google.co.uk/#q=sand+paper+roll&hl=en&prmd=imvns&source=univ&tbm=shop&tbo=u&sa=X&ei=zNaYULSGIcep0AXu5IDwBw&ved=0CEsQrQQ&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=a97b3a9ba87b3951&bpcl=37189454&biw=1440&bih=736

 

Don't worry about texture too much, most platforms are very smooth, as a rule we modellers over do texture by about 300%, when colour is the key.

 

J S-W has some good tarmac stuff on his Brummy New Street thread.

 

 

The next trick is to keep colurs PALE, fesh tarmac 4 inches from your nose might look dark, but from a distance it is VERY pale. Don't imagine what it looks like, but look at the real thing and throw any preconceptions out of the window.

[Chris Nevard]

Combwich; this is simply pale grey Humbrol over sanded tile grouting (because I didn't have any plaster to hand) with some thin beige washes (probably emulsion 90% water, 10% paint with a dash of washing up liquid to help it spread) to help it all blend in.

 

 

Note the low relief warehousing which doesn't work when viewed from tyhis angle, that's another story, but beware of end on type structures for low relief.

[Captain Kernow]

Completely agree with Chris re his above post. Anything like sand paper, wet & dry paper etc. are in reality too coarse when scaled up for something like Tarmac. Even very fine gravels don't do it for me (and if you are laying something very fine like Chinchilla dust, you need to think about a very even application of glue before you even apply the dust).

 

Provided you get the colouring right, you could even achieve the whole effect with something like thick card (eg. Daler board). This should be scribe-able (in terms of doing the coping stones), and you get a nice, level and even surface, which you can then colour in the way that Chris has.

 

The DAS seems to be rather like the water-based Tetrion filler I've been using as a basis for scribing granite setts on Callow Lane. Getting it smooth and even takes a bit of practice, and probably quite a lot of sanding action once it's set...

[Silver Sidelines]

Just another thought - asphalt is a relatively modern and expensive material. It has to be laid at over well over 100 degrees C. It is mixed with specialised equipment - usually at a quarry - and delivered in insulated wagons for immediate use. It is very doubtful that many rural stations in pre 1950's UK would have had asphalt surfaced platforms.

 

A study of old photographs suggests that away from the paved areas the platform was simply covered with cinders. Where 'traffic' increased it is highly likely that the cinders would have been covered with a more durable tarred surfacing. I find this pictureof Barnard Castle particularly interesting as it appears to show the tarred surfacing higher than the platform edging. I can imagine that there are cinders showing through at the edge where the surfacing would have been laid thinner to match with the stone edging. It would also seem to me that the 'planters' were too heavy to move and that the tarred surfacing was laid round them. By cambering the surface water drains onto the track. Is that is why porters trolleys were equipped with wooden chocks to stop them rolling off the platform? I guess in those days Mother's did not leave their prams unattended either.

 

Ray

[Boscomberailway]

Chris do you think das would work same way if I tried it on my ratio platform?

If you want to use abrasive paper you should be able to buy it in a roll from a trade place. Edging might be tricky though

DAS is fine, you can add the platform coping stones (1mm plastic card used here) then inlay DAS, paint grey then wash over a a light beige.

 

nevard_111002_polbrock_IMG_1394_WEB.jpg

 

nevard_111002_polbrock_IMG_1393_WEB.jpg

 

111007_cornish_int_IMG_1419_WEB.jpg

 

111002_cornish_int_IMG_1420_WEB.jpg

If you want to use abrasive paper you should be able to buy it in a roll from a trade place. Edging might be tricky though

DAS is fine, you can add the platform coping stones (1mm plastic card used here) then inlay DAS, paint grey then wash over a a light beige.

 

nevard_111002_polbrock_IMG_1394_WEB.jpg

 

nevard_111002_polbrock_IMG_1393_WEB.jpg

 

111007_cornish_int_IMG_1419_WEB.jpg

 

111002_cornish_int_IMG_1420_WEB.jpg

[Boscomberailway]

Chris I'm so impressed with your platform I'm thinking of trying this technique on my ratio platforms as like the shape of them but not happy with the finish been trying different ways to paint but never seen the das clay method think this maybe a good idea?

Guess I would have to cover whole platform though? As the edging stones will look too low?

[ohanlonmartin]

Chris,

 

Your input has stoked many queries and that reflects the quality of your modelling skills and use of materials, I too am nearing platform surface finishing and will be using pre-cut strips of 2mm hardboard.

 

My original thoughts were to scribe the surface of the hardboard with a very fine blade in an attempt to replicate paving stones and then worry about colouring those, sounds and will be very tedious I know, however looking at the finish achieved by using an overall spread of the likes of tiling grout I may need a re-think and possibly save myself endless hours of scribing, my total surface to complete will be circa 40ft in length.

 

Can I ask Chris where it is possible to buy those 1mm thick platform coping stones or did you scribe lengths of 1mm plastic strip?

 

I have never used DAS clay before so can I ask anyone here for some more detailed info on its properties such as how it is sold, where it can be bought from, how long it takes to dry, can it be scribed wet or dry?

 

My layout is representative of nowhere in particular but based on the ubiquitous end of steam beginning of diesel era and is purely for the enjoyment of seeing trains run in 00 gauge.

[Coombe Barton]

DAS

• white or terracotta
• Hobby shops - about £6 a kilo pack 
• The Works - £3.99 a kilo pack - but not always in stock
• Coat base layer with PVA - not too big an area
• Marble sized lump
• Smooth out about 1-2mm thick - not much more
• Then do the next bit
• Scribe dry with a knackered scalpel blade sideways, not in cutting mode
• Leave 24 hours before scribing at normal indoor room temperatures.- more for the shed, loft or garage.
• In a boiling hot loft in summer it'll start drying too quickly and crack
• Once the packet is opened keep in a Tupperware type container with a very good seal and put in a wad of damp kitchen roll to keep the environment moist, and store in a cool place.

[ohanlonmartin]

 

DAS

• white or terracotta
• Hobby shops - about £6 a kilo pack 
• The Works - £3.99 a kilo pack - but not always in stock
• Coat base layer with PVA - not too big an area
• Marble sized lump
• Smooth out about 1-2mm thick - not much more
• Then do the next bit
• Scribe dry with a knackered scalpel blade sideways, not in cutting mode
• Leave 24 hours before scribing at normal indoor room temperatures.- more for the shed, loft or garage.
• In a boiling hot loft in summer it'll start drying too quickly and crack
• Once the packet is opened keep in a Tupperware type container with a very good seal and put in a wad of damp kitchen roll to keep the environment moist, and store in a cool place.

Thanks for that Coombe Barton,

 

At what stage is It possible to paint the dried DAS and what type of paint should or should not be used, will the clay ever dry out over time and crack or is a sealer rather than paint a necessity?

[Coombe Barton]

DAS will dry and stay dried - it's a good clay. Paint after scribing.

 

David Wright - Dovedale Models, recommends oil paints. See http://www.dovedalemodels.co.uk/ He uses a heavily thinned mortar colour, then picks out individual slabs/stones with an almost dry oil paint 

 

He demonstrates at these shows http://www.dovedalemodels.co.uk/exhibition-diary/ and has two books out, and a number of DVDs. The books are some of the best ones with modern material techniques.

[allan downes]

You could try this, but try it on a test piece of card first.

 

Using 2mm plain grey card - you can get this from HOBBYCRAFT on the web in different thicknesses, but DON'T ever use faced cardboard as the facing sheet will lift off all to readily when subjected to emullsions, water based glues, in fact, water based anything.

 

Anyway, lay the card flat and spraying from about two feet away and aiming the spray as flat as you can across the surface of the card, not directly down upon it, lightly dustcoat the card with Matt Black aerosol and this will result in a very pleasing and defined tarmac texture. - but as I said, test it out first.

 

Cheers.

Allan.