Wright writes.....

[jamie92208]

If you hate Hornby tender drive as much as I do you could modify it slightly, like this:

 

DSCN3069.JPG

 

Didn't Graham Farish use to do something like that in the 60's I seem to remember seeing a 4mm Farish King that had that sort of system.

 

Jamie

[AndyID]

Didn't Graham Farish use to do something like that in the 60's I seem to remember seeing a 4mm Farish King that had that sort of system.

 

Jamie

 

Don't remember that one Jamie but IIRC Tri-ang did it with their old-timey US 4-4-0 model (Davy Crockett?)

 

The huge Sagami motor on my version makes it unstoppable but I need to gear it up a bit. The top speed is a bit too slow.

 

Cheers,

Andy

 

EDIT: I'm confused. Tri-ang made a 2-6-0 and I think the motor was in the locomotive. I think I'm confusing it with an article in RM where somebody put an X04 in the tender of a Kitmaster US "General" 4-4-0.

Edited October 30, 2018 by AndyID

[Tony Wright]

Isn't it amazing how this thread goes off in all sorts of directions, in no time at all? 

 

Brake vans, variants of them, how some RTR versions are awful and just about everything in between. 

 

Hard sums and physics (entirely baffling to me). 

 

Haulage capacity (including the use of traction tyres!) 

 

Pedantry (not baffling to me at all).

 

When is a question not a question?????

 

Grammar (always on-going).

 

9Fs - great stuff. 

 

Next subject, please (have I missed any recent ones?). 

 

How about this? 

 

 

Today, I collected the LRM D3 which I made recently. Geoff Haynes has painted it/weathered it beautifully for me (including hand-painting the incorrect '6', because there are no suitable transfers). Thanks Geoff.

 

 

 

These pretty (if any loco can be described as such) little 4-4-0s ended their days on the M&GNR, with just a few displaying their BR ownership; like this example. As I've mentioned earlier, the timescale on my little trainset is far more flexible than the main line - any time from the end of the LNER to the line's closure in 1959. Thus, it fits in very well (though the beautiful, Coachman-built Stanier in later BR maroon livery is a bit anomalous with the loco). The far-too-tight curve is apparent, but it's something I have to live with. At least the main line doesn't have tight scenic curves. 

 

Jol, if you read this, please tell John he may use any of these images wherever he likes. I've got some more as well, so will burn him a disc. Thanks. 

 

 

After taking the layout shots of the D3, I tried placing the camera in a position I've never tried before - on the bridge taking the private road to Grimsthorpe Castle over the M&GNR. I think it works, but with severe limitations. The area to the right isn't very convincing at all, but I'm pleased with the view down on to the junction of Station Road and Witham Road. 

[Jol Wilkinson]

Tony,

 

thanks, I'll let John know. There is one D3 photo on the website but of the Stainmore cab version.

 

Is the "camera on the bridge" a new cliche to replace the "bus on  bridge". The view across to the left looks good.

 

Jol

[APOLLO]

Tony could you please explain the facing crossover outside the signal box. Seems a bit odd to me (even though I'm sure it's prototypical)

 

Brit15

Edited October 30, 2018 by APOLLO

[Chamby]

Isn't it amazing how this thread goes off in all sorts of directions, in no time at all? 

 

Brake vans, variants of them, how some RTR versions are awful and just about everything in between. 

 

Hard sums and physics (entirely baffling to me). 

 

Haulage capacity (including the use of traction tyres!) 

 

Pedantry (not baffling to me at all).

 

When is a question not a question?????

 

Grammar (always on-going).

 

9Fs - great stuff. 

 

Next subject, please (have I missed any recent ones?). 

 

How about this? 

 

D3 07 painted.jpg

 

Today, I collected the LRM D3 which I made recently. Geoff Haynes has painted it/weathered it beautifully for me (including hand-painting the incorrect '6', because there are no suitable transfers). Thanks Geoff.

 

D3 10 on layout.jpg

 

D3 12 on layout.jpg

 

These pretty (if any loco can be described as such) little 4-4-0s ended their days on the M&GNR, with just a few displaying their BR ownership; like this example. As I've mentioned earlier, the timescale on my little trainset is far more flexible than the main line - any time from the end of the LNER to the line's closure in 1959. Thus, it fits in very well (though the beautiful, Coachman-built Stanier in later BR maroon livery is a bit anomalous with the loco). The far-too-tight curve is apparent, but it's something I have to live with. At least the main line doesn't have tight scenic curves. 

 

Jol, if you read this, please tell John he may use any of these images wherever he likes. I've got some more as well, so will burn him a disc. Thanks. 

 

4F on freight on M&GNR.jpg

 

After taking the layout shots of the D3, I tried placing the camera in a position I've never tried before - on the bridge taking the private road to Grimsthorpe Castle over the M&GNR. I think it works, but with severe limitations. The area to the right isn't very convincing at all, but I'm pleased with the view down on to the junction of Station Road and Witham Road.

 

Loving the D3.

 

Re: the last picture, could you strategically place a tree on the skyline just behind the signal, to obscure the back scene boundary from this angle? Even if you only plant it for shots from this position...

[grahame]

Didn't Graham Farish use to do something like that in the 60's I seem to remember seeing a 4mm Farish King that had that sort of system.

 

Jamie

Dapol have been using a motor in the tender driving the wheels in the loco via a carden shaft between the two in many of their N gauge locos.

 

G

[Tony Wright]

Loving the D3.

 

Re: the last picture, could you strategically place a tree on the skyline just behind the signal, to obscure the back scene boundary from this angle? Even if you only plant it for shots from this position...

Thanks Phil,

 

Good idea!

[Tony Wright]

Tony could you please explain the facing crossover outside the signal box. Seems a bit odd to me (even though I'm sure it's prototypical)

 

Brit15

Although it 'looks' like a facing crossover, the overgrown line going straight on from it, over the girder bridge, is actually a dead-end siding. When the formation was laid out by the Midland Railway in the 1890s from Little Bytham to Saxby Junction (near Melton Mowbray) it was actually for double track. All the bridges could accommodate this, but it was only ever laid with single track, with passing loops at South Witham and Wymondham. Even the girder bridge only carried one running road. As far as I know, the only time this siding over the girder bridge was used was for track-lifting, in 1959, on the line's closure.  

 

 

I hope this view shows the arrangement reasonably well, where all Up trains took the crossover and headed towards Saxby.

 

 

Every prototype shot shows the siding to be rusty and weed-infested (even though there was a ground signal allowing passage from it, and a trap point for protection). It went on for a further 100 yards or so beyond the girder bridge. In retrospect, it might have been better to have laid double track all the way from Bourne to Saxby, because the single track sections were always the Achilles' heel in operations on the east/west route to/from Norfolk, particularly on summer Saturdays. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited October 30, 2018 by Tony Wright

[Tony Wright]

I'm delighted folk like the D3.

 

 

Here's another studio shot of it. Typically (and prototypically?), the coal rails on the tender have been bent! 

 

I need to tone down the driver's overalls. 

 

I think what delights me the most about this dainty little loco is that I don't believe it'll ever be available RTR (anyone like to disagree?). Thus, if you want a D3 (or any other GNR 4-4-0?) it'll have to be kit-built; like this (or scratch-built). Not only that, it's a brilliant kit. It's accurate to prototype and the fit of parts exemplary. As long as kits of this quality are available, then the future of loco-building (as opposed to just loco-buying) should be secure.

 

It not only looks good, but it runs exceptionally well. What's its haulage capacity? Four/five kit-built bogies. More than enough on the M&GNR.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Tony Wright

[APOLLO]

Thanks for the explanation & photos Tony - Fascinating.

 

I saw this line once, on holiday in Hemsby near Great Yarmouth aged 7 back around 1959. Dad took us to the station a couple of times I seem to remember - such a long, long time ago. Nice to see it modelled.

 

Edited to add  -  Another double track line which was singled (with the other track remaining until the line closed) was the line from Wigan Central (GC /LNER) to Darlington St Goods - around 1 mile and mostly on bridges / embankments. The line here was singled around WW1, the line being worked as a single line from Wigan goods signal box. View here from a Manchester Central bound train departing Wigan Central around 1963. dad took this photo.

 

 

Brit15

Edited October 30, 2018 by APOLLO

[Headstock]

I'm delighted folk like the D3.

 

D3 08 painted.jpg

 

Here's another studio shot of it. Typically (and prototypically?), the coal rails on the tender have been bent! 

 

I need to tone down the driver's overalls. 

 

I think what delights me the most about this dainty little loco is that I don't believe it'll ever be available RTR (anyone like to disagree?). Thus, if you want a D3 (or any other GNR 4-4-0?) it'll have to be kit-built; like this (or scratch-built). Not only that, it's a brilliant kit. It's accurate to prototype and the fit of parts exemplary. As long as kits of this quality are available, then the future of loco-building (as opposed to just loco-buying) should be secure.

 

It not only looks good, but it runs exceptionally well. What's its haulage capacity? Four/five kit-built bogies. More than enough on the M&GNR.

 

Evening Tony,

 

that is a cracking little locomotive, it looks very much at home on the M&GN. You may be interested to know that I have worked out the factor of adhesion for the D3, very impressive. No wonder they were used on the Little Bytham to Spalding concrete trains. Incidentally, Folk may wish to know that the curly six numbering  is now available with British Railways legend in a number of sizes. It also comes in yellow or white as appropriate.

 

From Modelmasters.

 

https://modelmaster.uk/4mm-replacement-br-steam-loco-number-sets/17002-g204-br-numbers-0-9-with-curly-sixes-white.html?search_query=british+railways&results=30

 

https://modelmaster.uk/4mm-replacement-br-steam-loco-number-sets/17003-g205-br-numbers-0-9-with-curly-sixes-yellow.html?search_query=british+railways&results=30

Edited October 30, 2018 by Headstock

[Chuffer Davies]

Don't remember that one Jamie but IIRC Tri-ang did it with their old-timey US 4-4-0 model (Davy Crockett?)

 

The huge Sagami motor on my version makes it unstoppable but I need to gear it up a bit. The top speed is a bit too slow.

 

Cheers,

Andy

 

EDIT: I'm confused. Tri-ang made a 2-6-0 and I think the motor was in the locomotive. I think I'm confusing it with an article in RM where somebody put an X04 in the tender of a Kitmaster US "General" 4-4-0.

I’m not aware of a Graham Farish King although I’m sure you (Jamie) could be correct, but my father had the broken parts of a GF Black Five which did indeed have the motor in the tender driving the loco wheels via a drive shaft through the cab. The motor was a most peculiar beast which I think may have been able to run on AC because it had an electro magnet rather than the usual permanent magnet. It was a three rail model which my father used to run on his Hornby Dublo 3 rail system which was my introduction to model railways.

 

Thanks for the memory trigger.

 

Frank

[micknich2003]

From memory, GF did a Black 5, a King, a Southern Pacific and also a New York Central Hudson, again from memory the motor was not conventional. I have a complete run of '50's magazines, I would need to look at them.

[Woodcock29]

Tony the D3 is lovely. Like the J3 I showed the other day I agree its not likely to be available ever in RTR form. I actually have two of the old Premier kits - one to build as a D2 and one as a D3 (both acquired over here secondhand) plus a Nucast D2. Two of these will be required to run on Gavin's exhibition version of Spilsby, so I'll need to build them next year even though in reality it probably saw nothing more than a C12. I'm working on a C12 at the moment - one I acquired part built. Realised yesterday that the chassis is not quite square - as its all soldered up fairly well I might just move one of the bearings using the Poppyswood jig to get it right.

 

Andrew

[AndyID]

I’m not aware of a Graham Farish King although I’m sure you (Jamie) could be correct, but my father had the broken parts of a GF Black Five which did indeed have the motor in the tender driving the loco wheels via a drive shaft through the cab. The motor was a most peculiar beast which I think may have been able to run on AC because it had an electro magnet rather than the usual permanent magnet. It was a three rail model which my father used to run on his Hornby Dublo 3 rail system which was my introduction to model railways.

 

Thanks for the memory trigger.

 

Frank

 

Thanks for that information Frank. 'twas news to me.

 

With modern motors there's a lot to be said for that configuration, assuming of course you can tolerate the aesthetic deficiencies. That Black Five is incredibly quiet and easy to control. Its speed does not vary with load or gradient (you can run it into the buffers and it makes no difference) and because the boiler is full of lead it will pull ridiculously heavy trains. It was really an experiment but I was so impressed with the result I'm going to use the same arrangement on more locomotives (when I eventually get around to it   )

 

Cheers,

Andy

Edited October 30, 2018 by AndyID

[Chuffer Davies]

Thanks for that information Frank. 'twas news to me.

 

With modern motors there's a lot to be said for that configuration, assuming of course you can tolerate the aesthetic deficiencies. That Black Five is incredibly quiet and easy to control. Its speed does not vary with load or gradient (you can run it into the buffers and it makes no difference) and because the boiler is full of lead it will pull ridiculously heavy trains. It was really an experiment but I was so impressed with the result I'm going to use the same arrangement on more locomotives (when I eventually get around to it   )

 

Cheers,

Andy

Andy,

What did you use for the plastic universal joints? I’m also experimenting with putting the motor in the tender of a J7 and have some sleeving from my spares box for this model but I don’t know what material it actually is so can’t order more tubing over the net for future models.

 

Frank

[AndyID]

Andy,

What did you use for the plastic universal joints? I’m also experimenting with putting the motor in the tender of a J7 and have some sleeving from my spares box for this model but I don’t know what material it actually is so can’t order more tubing over the net for future models.

 

Frank

 

Hi Frank,

 

It's silicone model aircraft fuel tube. It's extremely flexible but it does wear-out eventually. BTW, the "shaft" is telescopic. That one uses hexagonal brass tubes, but they might not be so easy to find these days. Square brass tubes should work just as well with a little lubrication.

 

Cheers,

Andy

[AndyID]

This is why a can't speel spall spell for toffee.

 

[Steamport Southport]

I went to Kelsey Grammer School. 

 

 

I'm uncertain whether I prefer the more workmanlike lines of the D3 or the earlier look of the D4 (D2).

 

I think the former, but this model is a beauty. 

 

http://traders.scalefour.org/LondonRoadModels/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/LOCO90b.jpg

 

Linked as I don't want to breach copyright.

 

 

Jason

Edited October 31, 2018 by Steamport Southport

[jamie92208]

From memory, GF did a Black 5, a King, a Southern Pacific and also a New York Central Hudson, again from memory the motor was not conventional. I have a complete run of '50's magazines, I would need to look at them

 

Thanks Frank and Mick.  It's nice to know that my memory isn't playing tricks.  The King belonged to one of my teachers at school.  That would have been about 1969 but I think that it was quite and old model then. 

 

Jamie

[Tony Wright]

From memory, GF did a Black 5, a King, a Southern Pacific and also a New York Central Hudson, again from memory the motor was not conventional. I have a complete run of '50's magazines, I would need to look at them.

Thanks Mick,

 

Over 60 years ago, a rich kid in my class at junior school (his dad owned a pub, The Ermine, adjacent to Chester General Station) had a Graham Farish train set, including a Merchant Navy Pacific. Compared with the cheap and cheerful Tri-ang stuff I had (my dad was only a teacher) it seemed light years away, but it never seemed to work properly for some reason. Was the motor just a two-pole one in the tender?

 

Go forward many years and my sister-in-law was going out with a guy who had owned a Graham Farish set as a boy. He knew of my interest in model railways, so scrambled up in his loft and brought down the boxed GF set. It contained a Black Five, a circle of track (yes, just a circle - no straights) and some metal wagons. I said that it might be worth something. He took the loco out, and the whole chassis just crumbled to dust. The mazak had suffered complete fatigue. All that was left were the body (which hadn't deteriorated), the valve gear (which was steel, by the look) the tender body (the tender frames had become just dust), the driving wheels and a curious motor with what looked like a centrifugal clutch. 

 

I was reminded of the story of the discovery of Agamemnon's body and his golden death mask, which, when removed, revealed the Greek's face, but only for a moment, for that, too, just turned to dust! 

 

Later on, I had a couple of Graham Farish locos (I'm still puzzled why), a Pannier and a 2-6-2T. The latter only had pick-ups on two wheels and no piston rods! Both are long-gone. 

 

The great Ken Northwood (of North Devon fame) was quite happy to use much-modified GF-bodied Kings, though not their chassis. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited October 31, 2018 by Tony Wright

[Dazzler Fan]

Tony

 

Your Dad as a teacher was clearly more valuable to you

than having him as the owner of a Pub.

 

We have a rich boy in charge over here, whom I doubt knows

anything about Agamemnon.

 

Noel

[Tony Wright]

Despite having an extraction this morning (and finding myself not only with more gaps now than teeth, but considerably poorer) I've managed to complete the Kirk catering triplet. 

 

 

Part-substitutions from the likes of Comet, MJT and PC are apparent and, despite its old-fashioned methodology/materials it's not turned out too badly. The thick window reveals will always militate against this type of kit, but in varnished teak when complete? I've yet to make the interiors. 

Edited October 31, 2018 by Tony Wright

[gr.king]

Varnished teak livery for Little Bytham? Have I missed something, somewhere?

 

So the extraction was an extensive cashectomy?

Edited October 31, 2018 by gr.king