Wright writes.....

[Jol Wilkinson]

15 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

In contrast to the lack of response to the P2 article in BRM, I've had a most-encouraging response to the J6 article, Andy,

 

Which might indicate several things, including.....................

 

Readers of the RM are much more interested in an article on loco kit-building than those of BRM (though many read both, I'm sure).

The P2 piece was considered too complicated for the 'general' readership of BRM, and that the J6 piece was considered more of a 'starter-level' type. 

Maybe the J6 piece would have generated an interest in BRM as well had I placed it there.

RM's readership is more broadly-based than BRM's. Certainly, Dave Ellis at SE Finecast reported an increase in sales of the kit after the RM article was published. In contrast, Paul Barker at Millholme Models, after my piece was published in BRM on building his just-released 2P kit some little time ago, reported NO (yes no) sales at all. Until that is a month or so ago, when someone picked up a second-hand copy of the relevant issue, and promptly bought two of the kits! 

 

Who knows? Though I do find it a bit depressing that a mainsteam model railway publication (and it's not alone in this) is no longer interested in an article on building a steam-outline metal kit. Whoever writes it.................

 

Time was, of course, when (almost) monthly a new loco kit would arrive at my door, with a request to 'Please build it and review it'. I used to pop it on the couch until opening it later, whereupon our cat at the time would sleep on it! David Brown and John Emerson grabbed what I wrote with both hands, the manufacturer(s) were usually happy, took out an advert and there was always a subsequent readers' response (almost always positive). 

 

Now, it seems to be almost all RTR/RTP, with the simplest of conversions at best, almost all at the level of the 'beginner'. Or, am I just being ultra-cynical as I get older? That said, if it results in more copy-sales (on which careers depend), then who am I to take issue with it?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Tony,

 

a significant difference between SEF and Paul Barker's business models is that, AFAIK, Paul Barker doesn't have a website. He is therefore rather "invisible" compared to SEF and, as is often seen in the Small Suppliers Forum on RMweb, people want Amazon levels of ordering and delivery. Suppliers that don't have a web presence are often not well regarded and considered to be out of date/out of touch with consumer needs.

 

You, cynical? Aren't most of us?

 

Jol

 

 

[Jol Wilkinson]

6 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Jol

 

Unboxing videos are very helpful with today's complicated packaging. The number of times I have got the new toy home, proceeded to unpack it and then BANG as it hits the floor. 

 

Perhaps I should be doing a series of videos on "Bounce Testing Your New locomotive".

Clive,

 

doing it once is understandable. The second and subsequent times, well perhaps that should tell you something.

 

Jol

[The Stationmaster]

5 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Clive, I do understand your situation but there is a world of difference between reading something that is not perfect grammatically and reading something that is written so poorly that it is ambiguous or, worse, just can't be understood.

 

I have no problem with the former but I have a big problem with the latter. For example, there's an information sign at Southern Cross station in Melbourne which, to me, can be read in at least two ways but in fact is probably intended to mean something else altogether. Not good if you are relying on it to know when your train departs (or doesn't). I'll check the exact words later this week and post them here, if Tony doesn't mind, so we can have a bit of fun.

You need to see one of the information displays at the expensively redeveloped Reading station which ambiguously informs those who consult it the departure time of the 'Next Fastest Train' to a variety of destinations.  Unfortunately some while back when I asked at the information booth on the footbridge (aka 'transfer deck') for the departure time of the fastest train which would be departing for Plymouth in the near future the whole point of my question was lost as the member of staff's native language was Hungarian.

 

However occasionally the display is absolutely correct as there are subsequent trains to some destinations which offer a faster journey time than the train shown as 'Next Fastest'.

[polybear]

Whilst not a P4 modeller, I am a member of the S4Soc.  One good reason for being so is the excellent newsletter  

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

The problem with articles written in the press is that an increasing numbers of modellers are incapable of thinking even slightly outside of the box.

For example, how many people saw Tony's article on building the J6 as a guide to building a J6 kit and glossed over it and turned the page, as opposed to those who saw the article as a guide to building a whitemetal kit, how to solder differing materials etc etc and learnt something from it?

Despite being a much maligned diesel modeller, I find MRJ to be the best mag on the market, despite on the surface having nothing of any great relevance to me, there are nuggets of information in every issue.

 

Mike.

[Atso]

4 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

The problem with articles written in the press is that an increasing numbers of modellers are incapable of thinking even slightly outside of the box.

For example, how many people saw Tony's article on building the J6 as a guide to building a J6 kit and glossed over it and turned the page, as opposed to those who saw the article as a guide to building a whitemetal kit, how to solder differing materials etc etc and learnt something from it?

Despite being a much maligned diesel modeller, I find MRJ to be the best mag on the market, despite on the surface having nothing of any great relevance to me, there are nuggets of information in every issue.

 

Mike.

 

I completely agree Mike. Many of  the 'how to' articles/guides that I have found most useful over the years aren't related to my chosen modelling scale, period or location. Most ideas, techniques and skills are transferable to other scales/models/projects.

[rowanj]

This O4/8 was converted from the Bachmann model with Replica B1 parts and some Graeme King resin etches.. I did it years ago when I was less fussy about geographic fidelity, and it looked likely to stay in the “dead line” - I wouldn't sell it, as I had built it and try to keep my builds for sentimental reasons. However, as it happens, Darlington began to repair them after Gorton Works closed, and they were used on running in turns, 

 

So mine has brought an oil train from Teesside and will head for Port of Blyth to deposit them.

 

I’m really only posting this to try to influence what was once my favourite thread to spend more time on actual modelling and less on the philosophy of modern society, its’ youth and the downfall of modern education, be it in English or Engineering. Sometimes, I feel like I’m reading a script from “Last of the Summer Wine”, (which was once very funny).

[micklner]

3 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Tony,

 

a significant difference between SEF and Paul Barker's business models is that, AFAIK, Paul Barker doesn't have a website. He is therefore rather "invisible" compared to SEF and, as is often seen in the Small Suppliers Forum on RMweb, people want Amazon levels of ordering and delivery. Suppliers that don't have a web presence are often not well regarded and considered to be out of date/out of touch with consumer needs.

 

You, cynical? Aren't most of us?

 

Jol

 

 

Totally agree where are the Millhome Model items currently  advertised ? I have never seen a advert for them or an address for him ? .

[jwealleans]

Only at shows.

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, rowanj said:

This O4/8 was converted from the Bachmann model with Replica B1 parts and some Graeme King resin etches.. I did it years ago when I was less fussy about geographic fidelity, and it looked likely to stay in the “dead line” - I wouldn't sell it, as I had built it and try to keep my builds for sentimental reasons. However, as it happens, Darlington began to repair them after Gorton Works closed, and they were used on running in turns, 

 

So mine has brought an oil train from Teesside and will head for Port of Blyth to deposit them.

 

I’m really only posting this to try to influence what was once my favourite thread to spend more time on actual modelling and less on the philosophy of modern society, its’ youth and the downfall of modern education, be it in English or Engineering. Sometimes, I feel like I’m reading a script from “Last of the Summer Wine”, (which was once very funny).

Fair comment, John,

 

By the way, which is your favourite thread now?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

P.S. In case you hadn't noticed, this thread has at least one example of someone's personal modelling (usually more) on every page. This one has three, including your picture above. We're now up to 1318 pages and counting. That's a lot of modelling! 

[rowanj]

A couple of final observations then I promise I'll finish...

 

I don't read the magazines enough these days to know how relevant the content is to their overall readership, but it's clear most posters here don't find it so. Given their knowledge, experience and,I suspect, age, that's hardly surprising.

 

However, BRM via the Kit building part of the site DOES offer the opportunity for people to post, in as much detail, over as long a period as they like, with as much in the way of text and photos as they want, how they went about building their model or models. I would have thought using the Web was more likely to attract younger modellers than a magazine. There are lots of good articles on there, and Jol,for instance,should be mentioned in despatches.

 

One problem I found,after a while, was that I was just repeating myself when I described a loco build. At the end of the day, most modern kits are constructed the same way, so the techniques to build them are also similar. That is why I stopped posting, short of coming across a new problem. I enjoyed the J6 build,but it didn't teach me anything new.

 

Just to prove I too can join the "hypocrite club", having just got a SEF K3 without instructions, I wish Tony had posted a blow by blow account of his recent chassis build for the K3 he constructed recently.

 

Never mind..Brexit awaits...not the boring one but my modelling-free 3 months in Provence. No soldering or glue in the caravan allowed.

John

Edited March 11, 2019 by rowanj

[rowanj]

19 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Fair comment, John,

 

By the way, which is your favourite thread now?

 

Mine, of course....

[Headstock]

1 hour ago, rowanj said:

A couple of final observations then I promise I'll finish...

 

I don't read the magazines enough these days to know how relevant the content is to their overall readership, but it's clear most posters here don't find it so. Given their knowledge, experience and,I suspect, age, that's hardly surprising.

 

However, BRM via the Kit building part of the site DOES offer the opportunity for people to post, in as much detail, over as long a period as they like, with as much in the way of text and photos as they want, how they went about building their model or models. I would have thought using the Web was more likely to attract younger modellers than a magazine. There are lots of good articles on there, and Jol,for instance,should be mentioned in despatches.

 

One problem I found,after a while, was that I was just repeating myself when I described a loco build. At the end of the day, most modern kits are constructed the same way, so the techniques to build them are also similar. That is why I stopped posting, short of coming across a new problem. I enjoyed the J6 build,but it didn't teach me anything new.

 

Just to prove I too can join the "hypocrite club", having just got a SEF K3 without instructions, I wish Tony had posted a blow by blow account of his recent chassis build for the K3 he constructed recently.

 

Never mind..Brexit awaits...not the boring one but my modelling-free 3 months in Provence. No soldering or glue in the caravan allowed.

John

 

Evening John,

it sounds as if you need to move on to the next stage, ie, just using the kit as a starting point rather. The SEF K3 allows for a more sophisticated chassis build (ie it looks like a steam loco chassis, rather than two bits of brass with holes in that are joined together) It also has enough valve gear parts to make it work, there's a challenge for you. Then you need to build some proper NE stock, that little lot should be enough to drive the dull out of your former favourite thread.

 

 

[t-b-g]

I find myself agreeing with Mr Enterprising Western (There is a first time for everything!).

 

The trails in this hobby have been well and truly blazed and the vast majority of modelling seen today builds on what those pioneers did.

 

It is very rare for something previously unseen and new to crop up, which takes the hobby forward leaps and bounds.

 

It does mean that the "wow" factor in magazines or at exhibitions for me happens rarely nowadays, although there are still times when I come away from a show having seen a model or a layout that makes me think "I want to do something like that".

 

I don't know that it matters a great deal in the big scheme of things. There is very little that I do that hasn't been done many times over, probably better, by others. But I am content to enjoy the hobby in my own chosen way, as a builder not a buyer, a little contentment at producing a half decent replica of something from the real railway is all I need. I am always learning things that are new to me, whether they are new to the hobby is irrelevant.

 

In many ways, I treat exhibitions as a social event nowadays. I chance to catch up and natter with good folk that I only see at such events. If I can do that and pick up a few bits from some specialist traders, I am happy to go along and if there is anything special in the layout or demo. department, that is a bonus.

 

I agree that the content of the shows and magazines is a bit "samey" which is why I only get MRJ now, unless there is something particular I want to see in another magazine.

 

So if I just get MRJ and go to shows to be sociable, the "samey" aspects don't cause me any problems.  

[Enterprisingwestern]

3 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

I find myself agreeing with Mr Enterprising Western (There is a first time for everything!).

 

The doctor says I'll be ok once the initial shock wears off and as long as I keep taking the tablets!

 

Mike.

[Northmoor]

11 hours ago, Atso said:

I love rummaging through old copies of magazines in charity shops, model shops and preserved railways and frequently buy these for interesting articles and drawings; yes, these can be of questionable quality/accuracy but usually a good starting point. Another thing I've noticed is that in the past, layout articles usually contained much more information about how and why the layout operated, the locos built/purchased and sometimes even timetables/sequences. This is something that seems to be lacking from my modern layout articles which generally seem to follow the same basic formula.

 

Of my and my Dad's model railway magazines, I would be surprised if 5% were purchased new......

 

I well remember how in the 70s and 80s, Railway of the Month in the RM was frequently in 2 or more parts; I think Pendlebury ran over 5 or 6 editions.

 

Speaking/writing as a far-too-occasional modeller who has collected too much and built too little, I am probably tempted to buy a magazine only once or twice a year.  They simply don't inspire me in the way they once did; I agree with Tony that there are too many similar layouts and too many of the articles don't say anything interesting.  This forum, on the other hand......

[Tony Wright]

Speaking of repeating oneself (which is one thing I'm very good at!), with regard to writing articles on my loco builds, having built near on 500 of the things, I probably have nothing to say (by way of methodology) which has not been said before. I've arrived at a system which I know works for me - it's 'a' way, 'my' way, but definitely not the 'only' way. 

 

It's unlikely that I've ever 'invented' a building technique. All that's happened is that I've been fortunate enough to ask the right questions, at the right time and asked the right people. 

 

Where I think a 'build' article has use, even though it might cover constructional ground previously-explained, is where the description refers to a new kit, or one which has not featured before. Thus, any deviations from the 'prescribed' path can be explained, and problems identified. For instance, with the recent J6 build, I was able to point out the misalignment of the front footplate fixing, that no brakes were supplied (and I stated where to obtain them), that some metal needed removing from the inside of the firebox and that some filling was necessary at the front end and on the cab roof. None of these things was mentioned in the instructions (though I've now sent amendments). Thus, I think my article must have helped other builders (as far as I know, I was the first independent builder of this revamped kit). 

 

Though the likes of John Rowan (and loads of others) might not have learned anything new with regard to the modes of building, at least my findings might have intercepted potential problems for others. Indeed, from subsequent correspondence (and thanks), I know they have.

 

Returning to the (potential) piece on my building a DJH 'Princess Coronation', I've already been informed that replacement deflectors will be required for accuracy. I've also found out that the aperture in the boiler's base is designed to accommodate a D13 motor (showing the kit's age), and I've thus had to enlarge it to accept a can motor/gearbox arrangement. I've also found out that it's much better to solder the cab in place, rather than bolt it into position, that the pony truck will need modification to go around (even) 3' curves and that the bogie wheels will need substituting because, as supplied, they have ten spokes, not nine. There are other minor headaches' as well approaching. Thus, although my method of chassis and body construction are (always) exactly the same now, each loco build brings its own, unique 'problems'. 

 

Has there ever been an article on building a 4mm Semi before? I suppose many will say 'Why bother building it? Hornby's latest is so good'. They'd be right in some ways, of course, but by asking the question it proves that they know little (or nothing) about the 'buzz' one gets from actually building locos.  

[Headstock]

11 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Has there ever been an article on building a 4mm Semi before? I suppose many will say 'Why bother building it? Hornby's latest is so good'. They'd be right in some ways, of course, but by asking the question it proves that they know little (or nothing) about the 'buzz' one gets from actually building locos.  

 

Good evening Tony,

 

I wouldn't except that any RTR model is the last word in prototype fidelity. I would like to think that there is always the possibility of doing better. The new Billie Stannier looks very good but it certainly could be improved in a number of areas.

[Tony Wright]

Just in case anyone hasn't seen the end result of the J6 article of mine in the RM.............................

 

 

 

This was the one featured in the article. It was subsequently sold to a friend who has since weathered it (very well). 

 

 

I then decided to build another one, but this time substituted a more-common symmetrical-wheelbase tender (from LRM), giving the one supplied to Jesse. 

 

 

 

 

This was painted in the same way, using Halfords car acrylic satin black. Shiny models never look natural, though.................

 

 

 

 

So, it was weathered using my standard dry-brush methods. The lovely front numberplates on both models came from Ian Wilson's Pacific range. These are great, you get every member of the class (often in both styles of '6' and '9'), and they're dead easy to use. 

 

Abstracting myself from the situation, in my opinion it's a sad day for the hobby if articles describing builds like these are no longer considered worthwhile in the pages of model railway magazines. Thankfully, Steve Flint doesn't think so.

 

Is this enough 'modelling' for you, John? 

 

 

[Atso]

Regarding current articles in the modelling press, I have been enjoying Ian Nuttall's articles regarding his freight stock for Dentdale in RM. These really show the variety of wagons that ran on the railways, far more than I think will ever be covered by RTR products alone.

[rowanj]

40 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Just in case anyone hasn't seen the end result of the J6 article of mine in the RM.............................

 

 

 

 

 

This was the one featured in the article. It was subsequently sold to a friend who has since weathered it (very well). 

 

 

 

I then decided to build another one, but this time substituted a more-common symmetrical-wheelbase tender (from LRM), giving the one supplied to Jesse. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This was painted in the same way, using Halfords car acrylic satin black. Shiny models never look natural, though.................

 

 

 

 

So, it was weathered using my standard dry-brush methods. The lovely front numberplates on both models came from Ian Wilson's Pacific range. These are great, you get every member of the class (often in both styles of '6' and '9'), and they're dead easy to use. 

 

Abstracting myself from the situation, in my opinion it's a sad day for the hobby if articles describing builds like these are no longer considered worthwhile in the pages of model railway magazines. Thankfully, Steve Flint doesn't think so.

 

Is this enough 'modelling' for you, John? 

 

 

I shall now retire, bloodied but unbowed. This is exactly the sort of post I enjoy - great modelling, great photography.

 

More seriously, I am more and more convinced that "lurking" is my more normal habitat, and so I shall return to that. 

 

Regards

 

John

[Anglian]

20 hours ago, CF MRC said:

 

Anglian, I disagree.  I was taught to use a double space when writing my PhD and much prefer this style.  There is not a right or wrong in this respect.

 

Tim

 

The professional design industry would strongly disagree with you on that. 

 

The standard for the submission of academic papers (including Oxbridge PhD thesis) do not match the standards of professional typesetting. (I'm very familiar with both.)

Right back to trains, far less contentious.

 

 

 

Edited March 11, 2019 by Anglian

[Headstock]

I haven't had much time for modelling over the last week. However, while looking through some boxes, I did find some examples of brass sided carriages. I snapped off a shot of a PIII Stannier third class Restaurant car. The base of the conversion is an Airfix/GMR/Hornby? PII Restaurant composite. The sides are from the Comet range as are the various underframe gubbins and roof fittings. The carriage required the ride height lowering and the in filling of the substantial cut-outs in the solebars.

 

[cctransuk]

4 minutes ago, Headstock said:

The carriage required the ride height lowering and the in filling of the substantial cut-outs in the solebars.

 

 

The original Dapol version came with two underframes - with and without cut-outs.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Lecorbusier]

13 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Mike,

 

Good morning.

 

We probably don't have the need for model railway pioneers any more, but writers of the calibre of Beal and Ahern are still required, if only to keep the actual craft of railway modelling going. 

 

I tried to encourage folk to have a go at actually making things for themselves and to always observe the prototype before making a model in my recent RM piece, and was soundly castigated for it in some quarters. I wonder, had social media been around 50/60/70 years ago, whether the likes of the 'pioneers' would have been 'put to the sword' for suggesting personal creativity, care, pushing the boundaries and observation should be encouraged in modelling? 'One can almost hear the righteous indignation from the past - 'Who are these chaps dictating to us? My Hornby O Gauge clockwork is all that's needed, and that's that!' 

 

Would the great Peter Denny (the finest of gentlemen, and far more important in the hobby than the two pioneers already mentioned in my view) have been criticised for his modelling approach (brilliant then, and still brilliant) when 'most' contemporaries might have been happy with the emerging Tri-ang, Hornby-Dublo, Trix Twin and Graham Farish in 4mm Scale? Please don't think I'm comparing myself with any of the pioneers, but in the days when the only means of model railway communication was the printed page, I cannot recall anything 'nasty' ever being written in response to articles which encouraged folk to have a go and improve their personal model-making. Editors, quite rightly, would have used their discretion. 

 

Granted, the current RTR standards are in a different universe than those from the past, but am I alone in getting a bit bored at seeing so much of the same stuff in the model railway press, at shows and online? 

 

My apologies for 'shouting'.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I have two thoughts/theories on this .... both of which might well be wrong.

 

The first one is that I keep on reading  the model railway hobby is one of the most popular past times in the country. If this is true, I suspect that the huge increase in numbers has mainly been down to the excellence of the RTR offerings - many who enjoyed playing trains as kids can now play trains as adults but this time with grown up toys and a real semblance of quality ... which never used to be possible unless you were a serious and talented modeller. If this hypothesis is correct, then it is perhaps not surprising that your article received mixed reactions, as it will as far as many are concerned, have appeared to question if not directly critique their 'real semblance of quality'.

 

The second is that given the way the modern internet appears to work and the alleged increase in numbers getting involved in the hobby, I suspect the lack of perspective or discernment demonstrated by many relating to your article is now the new norm. People seem to think that manners are no longer relevant when posting anonymously from a distance hidden behind a keyboard.

 

I shall be interested to watch over the next 10 - 15 years to see whether the popularity of the hobby falls back at all ....and if so whether modelling then comes to the fore again or not ..... time will tell.