Wright writes.....

[Lecorbusier]

23 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

The same paint was supplied by the same manufacturer all through, to the Midland Railway, LMS and British Railways. What changed over time was the primer, the method of painting and the varnish on top but the paint colour never changed.

I assume that this is down to the transparency of the red pigment? Interestingly the same would seem to be true of Precision's Crimson lake as I have had different results on test sheets dependent upon tone of undercoat. Would you have any thoughts on which undercoat might work best for which period?

[Dave Hunt]

 

15 minutes ago, Lecorbusier said:

I assume that this is down to the transparency of the red pigment? Interestingly the same would seem to be true of Precision's Crimson lake as I have had different results on test sheets dependent upon tone of undercoat. Would you have any thoughts on which undercoat might work best for which period?

 

The painting specification issued to contractors in Midland days was 'oxide of iron' for the undercoat, which I believe was somewhat darker than what is commonly referred to now as 'red oxide'. In fact, my good friend David Tee thought that the 'locomotive brown' used on some Midland goods engines around 1905 was simply the oxide of iron varnished over without the crimson lake. In LMS and BR days I believe that the undercoat was the better known red oxide. When painting models of Midland engines I have always used red oxide primer; as you state, the final colour is dependent on the undercoat as crimson lake is relatively transparent.

 

Dave

Edited March 10, 2019 by Dave Hunt
Spelling error

[jwealleans]

Haven't I read somewhere that one of the preparation coats for Midland Lake was blue, not dissimilar to Caledonian engine blue?  Whoever wrote it also said that they'd chipped layers of paint off a Midland vehicle and confirmed that there was indeed a layer of blue under there.

[Dave Hunt]

2 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

Haven't I read somewhere that one of the preparation coats for Midland Lake was blue, not dissimilar to Caledonian engine blue?  Whoever wrote it also said that they'd chipped layers of paint off a Midland vehicle and confirmed that there was indeed a layer of blue under there.

 

If they did it was nothing to do with the specified Midland locomotive or carriage painting schedule. However, if it was a road vehicle, cart etc. it could be that the blue paint, which was the colour for such things in Midand days, had been over painted crimson by the LMS.

 

Dave

[LMS29]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

I think it was a BRM 'Annual' type of book? There is also some stuff on one of those DVDs Tony did. That was about modifying/detailing/converting RTR stuff IIC?

I think I have both these items but the last time I offered to loan something on here the person never responded and another time a DVD came back scratched, so I don't do that any more....sorry.

Phil

Thanks anyway Phil.  The annual is a new reference I did not have so will follow that up. 

 

Tom

[Clem]

11 minutes ago, LMS29 said:

Thanks anyway Phil.  The annual is a new reference I did not have so will follow that up. 

 

Tom

Here's the scan I have, Tom. It's not the BRM annual but an earlier article. Tony, I hope you don't mind me posting this (or for that matter BRM). If so, I'll delete it.

 

 

coach_HnbyGres_MJTSides_001.pdf

Edited March 10, 2019 by Clem

[jamie92208]

41 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

If they did it was nothing to do with the specified Midland locomotive or carriage painting schedule. However, if it was a road vehicle, cart etc. it could be that the blue paint, which was the colour for such things in Midand days, had been over painted crimson by the LMS.

 

Dave

Or possibly a vehicle of Midland design that had been allocated to the Somerset and Dorset at some point in it's life.

 

Jamie

[juke]

The 2015 BRM Annual is available on Pocketmags (digital edition). £3.99.

 

Syd

 

 

[Headstock]

 

LMS/BR red seems a particularly fickle colour to reproduce, I avoid it were possible. Mainly because I would have to spend a great deal of time getting confident with what I was doing with it. In model form, there seems to be a number of 'authentic' colours often on the same layout. The experts will quite rightly say that it was always the same colour and then add a caveat that leaves you non the wiser. My Father always made the point that the LMS seemed to be short of cleaners in our neck of the woods as he never saw an LMS red engine that was anything but filthy.

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

Ah yes, 't'was the Gresleys was it not? Thompsons on the DVD I think. Well remembered CPB

 

The Gresley conversions were featured in the 'Done in a Trice' piece, and on the DVD, Phil,

 

There was a follow-up article on coach conversions which appeared in about 2015 in another BRM Annual (or extra). It included conversions like these below - all from Hornby donors with MJT or Kemilway brass sides, and also MJT HD bogies where appropriate. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you recall, you came over here when I was doing some of these conversions, and some for Gilbert Barnatt.

 

 

Larry Goddard did such a conversion or two for Gilbert, but gave up in the end because the end result wasn't as good as a fully kit-built equivalent, yet it took longer. I'm not so sure, and I think the conversions have merit. Not only does one get a much more accurate carriage with regard to panelling and tumbleholme-shape, but also different diagrams from those produced by Hornby. Oddly enough (or, perhaps not, because of their excellence at source) I've yet to see any conversions of Bachmann's latest Thompsons.

 

I have none of formats now describing the above or the earlier examples (I never keep copies of things I've written or appeared in, only photographs). 

 

I very much doubt if spare copies are around in BRM's headquarters now, but it might be worth an enquiry. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited March 10, 2019 by Tony Wright
to clarify a point

[Tony Wright]

23 minutes ago, Clem said:

Here's the scan I have, Tom. It's not the BRM annual but an earlier article. Tony, I hope you don't mind me posting this (or for that matter BRM). If so, I'll delete it.

 

 

coach_HnbyGres_MJTSides_001.pdf

I don't mind at all, Clem; thanks for posting it.

 

2006 - was it really that long ago? I don't think it's really BRM material nowadays.

[cctransuk]

2 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

I don't think it's really BRM material nowadays.

 

Sadly, I agree - and it's not just BRM; in all the mainstream magazines anything more challenging than renumbering / renaming a loco seems to be regarded as "too specialist".

 

.... and yet reams and reams of print are devoted to the intricacies of hacking models about in order to fit DCC control and sound.

 

I really think that the words 'Railway Modelling  / Modeller' should be replaced by 'Electronics' !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[LMS29]

11 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

The Gresley conversions were featured in the 'Done in a Trice' piece, and on the DVD, Phil,

 

There was a follow-up article on coach conversions which appeared in about 2015 in another BRM Annual (or extra). It included conversions like these below - all from Hornby donors with MJT or Kemilway brass sides, and also MJT HD bogies where appropriate. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you recall, you came over here when I was doing some of these conversions, and some for Gilbert Barnatt.

 

 

Larry Goddard did such a conversion or two for Gilbert, but gave up in the end because the end result wasn't as good as a fully kit-built equivalent, yet it took longer. I'm not so sure, and I think the conversions have merit. Not only does one get a much more accurate carriage with regard to panelling and tumbleholme-shape, but also different diagrams from those produced by Hornby. Oddly enough (or, perhaps not, because of their excellence at source) I've yet to see any conversions of Bachmann's latest Thompsons.

 

I have none of formats now describing the above or the earlier examples (I never keep copies of things I've written or appeared in, only photographs). 

 

I very much doubt if spare copies are around in BRM's headquarters now, but it might be worth an enquiry. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Tony,

 

I had contacted BRM before I posted earlier and they were unable to help.

 

Thanks for posting the photographs it gives me more useful guidance. 

 

Tom

[Bob Reid]

For the undercoat you could probably do no better than what the 12" to the foot version did, and use pink.  There were more than one supplier in BR days of Maroon, in fact no less than four though they all used BR provided paint panels as a match. 

 

Bob.

[Tony Wright]

22 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Sadly, I agree - and it's not just BRM; in all the mainstream magazines anything more challenging than renumbering / renaming a loco seems to be regarded as "too specialist".

 

.... and yet reams and reams of print are devoted to the intricacies of hacking models about in order to fit DCC control and sound.

 

I really think that the words 'Railway Modelling  / Modeller' should be replaced by 'Electronics' !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Thanks John,

 

My comment was more of an observation than a criticism.

 

Things move on, and my time at BRM has passed. When I was full-time at the magazine, part of my responsibilities was to produce an article, at least every couple of months which included some 'challenging' material. I'm certainly not saying 'high brow' (I've never been involved with anything like that!), but quite 'complex' modelling at times, and certainly the construction of some complicated kits or conversions. The last one was published a few months ago in the mag'; my building of an ACE P2 (challenging' is the right description). I asked last week whether there'd been any 'reaction' to it, good or bad? 'Nothing at all' was the reply to my question. Thus, I can conclude that an article on building the likes of a large (and complex) locomotive is no longer of interest to current BRM readers. I don't mind that; if that's a fact, so be it. As I say, things move on, and if the magazine (or any of the current others) appeals to a 'wider' readership (and is more successful?), then it proves that the like of the things I used to do is no longer 'mainstream'. Indeed, I had considered writing an article on my current building of a DJH 'Princess Coronation' ('Semi' to us urchin trainspotters), something, as far as I know which has never been featured, but it's no longer the type of article required. 

 

If (and is this a correct observation?) the likes of an article on soldering together a large (and complicated) loco kit (in any scale?) is no longer worth writing because it doesn't suit any current magazine's style, then the hobby is much the poorer in my view (not because I'm writing it, but in general). If 'bodging' is the way forward, then count me out. 

 

If, as you surmise, the articles are much less-challenging in the current media (across the board), and merely consist of the simplest (and/or the smallest) of projects, or those involving electronics, and that's the successful future path, then I count myself privileged to have 'enjoyed' what's gone in the past. If the types of articles just suggested appeal to the majority, and, because of that, it leads to a more successful periodical (any periodical), then who am I to argue?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[cctransuk]

15 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

If, as you surmise, the articles are much less-challenging in the current media (across the board), and merely consist of the simplest (and/or the smallest) of projects, or those involving electronics, and that's the successful future path, then I count myself privileged to have 'enjoyed' what's gone in the past.

 

To misquote the Captain of the Starship "Enterprise" - It's modelling, Tony, but not as we know it !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[glo41f]

There has been mention of what could be called "dumbing down" of articles in the model press. I have noticed this in other ways. My local group of 7mm modellers have a large circular test track which is now some 30 years old. It was originally used to test models in the course of construction and to eliminate faults which emerged when models covered some distance circulating the tracks. These days that rarely happens and the only testing done is for the attendees trying to get the models from the complex packaging which most RTR models are shipped in today!

 

This is the reason why I very rarely purchase a model mag. I find often to my joy that there is a huge supply of older magazines often available for a small donation at the likes of heritage railways in which you find drawings and constructional articles galore. As our leader says we perhaps had the best of it on that aspect of our modelling.

 

Martin Long

 

 

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Sadly, I agree - and it's not just BRM; in all the mainstream magazines anything more challenging than renumbering / renaming a loco seems to be regarded as "too specialist".

 

.... and yet reams and reams of print are devoted to the intricacies of hacking models about in order to fit DCC control and sound.

 

I really think that the words 'Railway Modelling  / Modeller' should be replaced by 'Electronics' !!

 

I have just finished scanning all the useful articles from my copies of Model Trains and Scale Trains, which were first published in the early '80s.  EVERY edition had an article about fettling the RTR models of the time and as I own many of them , I have kept these articles for reference.   Some of the current magazines recommend disposing of all your old models and buying new ones as they are so much better.  Perhaps the same people who refuse to fettle models in any way also complain about the cost of new models?

 

I cannot argue about the level of detail now available but as for robustness of running gear, I'm not sure enough has changed (admittedly none of my Mainline models have run for years, so I haven't experienced split chassis failure - yet).  

 

If anyone wants my MT/ST and other old mags, I've listed them in the Free to a Good Home area....

[Clive Mortimore]

At this years Glasgow show I showed a magazine editor some of my cut and shut multiple units and asked would he be interested in an article about them. Thankfully "Yes" was the answer, but he then went on to say how I should be taking the photos as if the photos were more important than the modelling. I am not that good a modeller but have ago.....my photography is an even at more elementary level, we are not all called Tony Wright. 

 

I suppose the way today's magazines are presented big clear and in focus photos are more important than any text explaining how to cut up a Tri-ang coach (you can use other manufacturers) to make a AM9 EMU.

 

Whoops I sound like a grumpy old man.

[Northmoor]

4 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I suppose the way today's magazines are presented big clear and in focus photos are more important than any text explaining how to cut up a Tri-ang coach (you can use other manufacturers) to make a AM9 EMU.

 

Whoops I sound like a grumpy old man.

Clive that's understandable - if you are going to publish photos they have to be clear and "interpret-able".

 

While I find much the colour now in the magazines far too bright/intense, some of the quality of the B&W printing on the older magazines was truly awful, captions referring to detail that couldn't actually be seen in print.

[uax6]

Inbetween trains for the last couple of days I have been playing with a very badly built DJH Loch kit. When it arrived it had a D13 motor that was glued to the chassis. The wheels were the horrible ones with plastic D centres, and the thing was locked solid, which was probably due to the fact that the quartering had been lost.

The motor has been changed to a mashima 1220 with a Branchlines multibox (which has allowed the motor to drive the front driver, and still leave space for a flywheel. I've soldered the frame solid, so as to removed the screw heads.

I'm just soldering washers onto the coupling rods to get smaller holes for the crankpins. And then I'm tackling the slide-bars, which are sloppy as anything... All good fun!

 

Andy G

[rowanj]

I was posting a few pictures on my layout thread but, in view of the recent posts on coach sides, I thought I would put the photo of 60060 "The Tetrach" on an Edinburgh- Newcastle relief. It is an old Wills kit on a Comet chassis. The leading pair of coaches are Comet overlays on original Bachmann donors. The roofs are reprofiled as per Tony's work on the DVD, with corrected ventilator fittings, but very little done below the chassis. "Layout coaches" in the extreme, but a big improvement on the original Bachmann's.

[Tony Wright]

42 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

At this years Glasgow show I showed a magazine editor some of my cut and shut multiple units and asked would he be interested in an article about them. Thankfully "Yes" was the answer, but he then went on to say how I should be taking the photos as if the photos were more important than the modelling. I am not that good a modeller but have ago.....my photography is an even at more elementary level, we are not all called Tony Wright. 

 

I suppose the way today's magazines are presented big clear and in focus photos are more important than any text explaining how to cut up a Tri-ang coach (you can use other manufacturers) to make a AM9 EMU.

 

Whoops I sound like a grumpy old man.

Why not arrange a day or two to pop over here Clive, and I'll take your pictures for you?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited March 10, 2019 by Tony Wright
typo

[Tony Wright]

37 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

some of the quality of the B&W printing on the older magazines was truly awful, captions referring to detail that couldn't actually be seen in print.

It was called 'soot & whitewash'...........................

[The Stationmaster]

On 08/03/2019 at 22:33, Tony Wright said:

Nothing atrocious, Dave, just a typo or two.

 

Different 'from' is correct usage, so your wife was right..................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

P.S. Speaking of 'correcting' English, I've not long ago received an e-mail (from a professional journalist) which is written along the lines of 'I hope you're good' (in enquiring about my health) and 'I'm sorry it's took me  so long to get back to you' by way of an apology.  

 

When did English grammar cease to be taught in schools, I wonder? After I left the profession, I'm sure (though I principally taught art). 

My son was awarded an MA in Journalism (Broadcast journalism to be precise but the basics were the same as for the print variety) and the tutors on his course at Sheffield Uni (the original one) concentrated very hard on correct usage of English  throughout the course.  When my daughter's PhD Naval History thesis was assessed the principal assessor, a well known naval historian,  commented very positively on her high standard of written English and punctuation - including the correct differentiations between the use of paired commas, dash symbols, and brackets.  

 

I am convinced the problem with many so called journalists is down to either very poor training or total lack of training and sloppy misuse of language they have picked up from speech rather than written work.  Should somebody happen to ask to say to me 'are you good?' I'm invariably tempted to reply 'at what?'