Wright writes.....

[Headstock]

17 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Andrew,

 

'there are worst things than death apparently'

 

Everlasting life?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Evening Tony,

 

that would be appalling.

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, zr2498 said:

Tony

How about something on the train formations you operate on the layout. I would have thought valuable information as bound to be as the prototype. Hornby have done that for RTR in their magazines, however something quite new if it includes kit built and modified RTR.

Example below of how Hornby magazine lay the information out

Dave

That's a good idea Dave,

 

I'll chat to Mike Wild when he takes the pictures and see what he thinks about it. 

 

I haven't seen the piece on prototype trains you've illustrated, but I imagine it was based around what RTR carriages were (and still are?) available at the time. 

 

In the case of Little Bytham, no prototype passenger trains could be represented by just RTR, with the exception of the morning Talisman (though that often had Thompson catering cars during the period modelled). Yes, the Pullmans now come close, with Hornby's latest cars (though I'm told they're all impossible to buy now). 

 

The Flying Scotsman could mainly be made up from RTR Mk.1s, though there's no Thompson with Ladies' Retiring Room available 'off-the-shelf'. 

 

The others? Nothing of the main Newcastle trains could be represented fully RTR, until someone offers a triplet catering set 'out-of-the-box'. The West Riding or the afternoon Talisman? Not without those ex-streamliners (which Hornby might eventually do in BR guise). The White Rose? Yes, mainly Mk.1s, but there are no pre-Nationalisation ER catering cars RTR, other than the Hornby Buffet Car, which isn't suitable There's surely a huge potential RTR market there; Gresley/Thompson catering cars, even in otherwise all-Mk.1 sets. As for The Elizabethan? Nothing suitable RTR, other than the Aberdeen Mk.1s.

 

Speaking of The Elizabethan, I once had an interest conversation with one of the Bachmann chaps. It was at the time when an Elizabethan (in very short form) was offered in a stout wooden presentation box, all very nicely packaged. The set (four or five cars, I think) had no catering vehicles and was formed of the standard Bachmann Thompson carriages of the day (not PV). When I pointed this out, I was assured (yes, assured!) that the model had been produced using prototype photographs for reference. Yes, actual prototype photographs. I asked if I could see them (I was at Barwell), since they contradicted all the evidence I'd collected down the years, but they couldn't be found. I was assured that I'd be seeing them. Have I ever? Let's leave it at that! 

 

Because so much in the way of carriage kit-building/modification has been necessary to produce Bytham's passenger trains, I wonder how that might fit in with Hornby's general readership if I write about those trains? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[polybear]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

As for (loco) kits; as Micklner has asked, what's a price now, complete? I honestly don't know because I haven't looked of late, but a big DJH one must be well the wrong side of £300.00. 

 

An A1 with Markits wheels and DJH Motor & Gearbox comes in at £394 with delivery....

[Tony Wright]

Might there be an interest in describing these?

 

 

The Down White Rose, hauled by my now-smashed-to-bits original DELTIC. 

 

There's no need to make a Mk.1 BSO now (which I did as the first vehicle) because Hornby produces one, but there's nothing available RTR to represent the fourth and fifth, catering cars.

 

 

Hornby Mk.1 BSOs suit the afternoon Talisman front and back, but one would still have to make the Thompson catering cars and the ex-streamlined FO/FO pair (unless Hornby does eventually bring it out). 

 

 

Thompsons often substituted for the equivalent Mk.1s (easy enough with Bachmann's latest), but a catering triplet (with standing bar) will be needed to make-up The Northumbrian. 

 

 

Can anyone foresee any RTR manufacturer making something like this? 

 

For 'absolute' accuracy, one of the Cravens prototype Mk.1 cars will be needed for this train (we actually ran one on Stoke, but I haven't got it on LB). 

 

As for The Elizabethan.............

 

 

Not a chance RTR. 

 

Over a quarter of a century ago, I wrote about how I made this rake in BRM. 

 

A part-revisit in Hornby Magazine? 

[Tony Wright]

20 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

An A1 with Markits wheels and DJH Motor & Gearbox comes in at £394 with delivery....

Thanks Brian,

 

Soon be over £400.00 I'd imagine!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[LNER4479]

55 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

 

I'll chat to Mike Wild when he takes the pictures and see what he thinks about it. 

 

Ought we to have that session looking at LB's freight trains before turns up, Tony?(!)

 

[Northmoor]

20 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Might there be an interest in describing these?

 

 

The Down White Rose, hauled by my now-smashed-to-bits original DELTIC. 

 

There's no need to make a Mk.1 BSO now (which I did as the first vehicle) because Hornby produces one, but there's nothing available RTR to represent the fourth and fifth, catering cars.

 

 

Hornby Mk.1 BSOs suit the afternoon Talisman front and back, but one would still have to make the Thompson catering cars and the ex-streamlined FO/FO pair (unless Hornby does eventually bring it out). 

 

 

Thompsons often substituted for the equivalent Mk.1s (easy enough with Bachmann's latest), but a catering triplet (with standing bar) will be needed to make-up The Northumbrian. 

 

 

Can anyone foresee any RTR manufacturer making something like this? 

 

For 'absolute' accuracy, one of the Cravens prototype Mk.1 cars will be needed for this train (we actually ran one on Stoke, but I haven't got it on LB). 

 

As for The Elizabethan.............

 

 

Not a chance RTR. 

 

Over a quarter of a century ago, I wrote about how I made this rake in BRM. 

 

A part-revisit in Hornby Magazine? 

I would hope HM was prepared to print an article like this.  I always got the impression their primary aim was to provide an easy RTR shopping list, not an explanation of how much work is required to replicate most real formations.

[zr2498]

47 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Because so much in the way of carriage kit-building/modification has been necessary to produce Bytham's passenger trains, I wonder how that might fit in with Hornby's general readership if I write about those trains? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Tony

I reckon railway 'modellers' would welcome details of what you have done to make up the train formations, rakes of coaching stock and even wagons (later edition perhaps). If there are RTR, (as is or modified) equivalents then worth a mention. There is however, an opportunity to redress the balance as many publications are perhaps becoming biased towards information on the current 'run of the mill' RTR releases. I am sure this pleases the general readership, but I believe that same general readership would welcome a glimpse of what else is possible. It may encourage some have a go at achieving prototype accuracy, at least for train formations and hopefully give a purpose and guidance / direction for getting stuck into some kit building / modelling . Of course you would only be able to summarise the extensive research and years of kit building that you have done to get to the prototypical Little Bytham. It would also represent one era and one region, but it might set a template for others to follow.

Dave

[t-b-g]

2 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

I would hope HM was prepared to print an article like this.  I always got the impression their primary aim was to provide an easy RTR shopping list, not an explanation of how much work is required to replicate most real formations.

 

I gave up on Hornby Magazine when they printed an article written by me about Buckingham in their "Yearbook". They replaced my caption of a photo of the 3 GWR Triang Clerestories converted to represent GCR ones. The new caption was something about Peter Denny being one of the first finescale modellers to recognise the opportunities presented by ready to run models. That was the total opposite to what Peter thought of his carriages. He told me that he wished he hadn't bothered to put so much work into inaccurate models and that with hindsight he would have rather scratchbuilt the carriages for that train instead.

 

Anybody reading the caption would have presumed that I had written it! It totally misrepresented both Peter Denny's views and mine. It seemed to me that an article that didn't extol the virtues of RTR was too much for them to contemplate.  

[FarrMan]

5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

An interesting (as always) post, Tony.

 

Many thanks. 

 

I've been puzzling how to write something 'new' about Little Bytham for Hornby Magazine. I don't think 'new' photographs will be a problem, because I'm sure Mike Wild will find some very different views. In that respect, it'll be better to have someone else photograph it, since all my previous submissions have been illustrated by me. 

 

I think the 'basic framework' will probably be around the same 'aims and objectives', which were established when the layout was planned. I can't alter these - they are what they are; a model of an actual prototype, as near to 'scale' as possible, the subject matter being an ECML depiction in OO (yes, I know, it should have been in EM, but I didn't take the right(eous) path I should have done over 40 years ago) of my trainspotting heydays between 1956 and 1962, to be built by a highly-experienced team of modellers, pooling resources and working together by helping each other as well, my responsibilities being the construction of much of the scenery, making some of the buildings/structures, doing a lot of the wiring, laying all the fiddle yard(s') track, making (most of) the locomotives, making/modifying (most of) the passenger rolling stock and ensuring that it works well at all times (allowing for my operating incompetence!). 

 

I hope I'll be able to find something to write about in a different way.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

I like the idea of writing about how you research train formations. Before I saw that I was thinking, how about stressing the teamwork involved? This might be by concentrating on an aspect that someone else has contributed, either physical or operational? Perhaps you could even ask them to write the piece, or at least give you the information so that you could write the piece? There must be enough for many articles there. Or on the operational side, something on realistic operation, such as how to achieve realistic speeds, realistic stopping and starting, etc.

 

Lloyd

[micklner]

2 hours ago, polybear said:

 

An A1 with Markits wheels and DJH Motor & Gearbox comes in at £394 with delivery....

Proffesionally  built and painted final price £1000.00 or more . ?? Not really viable for many people ??.

[65179]

3 hours ago, drmditch said:

Re: Wagons - from kits, RtR, and an occasional scratch build

 

The thing about freight and mineral vehicles is that I like building them!

A truck makes a convenient little project which is good for cheering up if one is stuck on something else.

I am surprised that the RTR companies haven't provided more reasonably authentic models, (especially LMS fitted vans), but that doesn't matter to me because it gives me more to make.

 

Below are some examples:-

 

Bachmann/Mainline have used a 3 plank dropside moulding for years, sometimes with LMS branding and sometimes with LNER. For some reason both Mainline and Bachmann produced versions of this moulding lettered for the NE and numbered 535962. This can only be the ex-GC vehicle drawn on Page 10 of Peter Tatlow's 'LNER Wagons - an illustrated overview' and shown in more detail on Page 107 of his 'LNER Wagons - Volume 1'.

So, since I needed a subject for experimenting with scratchbuilding an open-sided vehicle, here is the 'real' 535962, complete with lifting-link brakegear.

 

 

One can, of course use the RTR moulding with a revised/replaced underframe

 

 

 

Snap!

Regards,

Simon

[robmcg]

11 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Rob,

 

Is the rebuilt W1 on sale now?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

I believe so Tony. I had the rare privilege of being able to buy one here in NZ before it arrived in the UK., such are the vagaries of international shipping these days.

 

In NZ during the 1960s I would read 'Model Railway News' on the floor of our rather sunny 'front room' which was also something of a library, my father Tom McGavin being an editor, author and publisher. We were typically six weeks behind you lot in the UK, At age 11 or 12yrs I really wanted the latest Kitmaster models. I still have an un-made LMS Garratt and NYC Hudson.

 

That same floor was home to a Hornby Dublo three-rail layout too, from time to time. 'Bristol Castle' roaring by with six red-cream tin bodied carriages.  My school uniform had polystyrene glue on the front....   Intead of putting motors in the Kitmaster bodies, I towed them with brown cotton on a winch on a 6-foot straight diorama, and made 8mm movies of them, later...  but I ramble.

 

Cheers, Robbie

Edited January 14, 2022 by robmcg
typo

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, LNER4479 said:

Ought we to have that session looking at LB's freight trains before turns up, Tony?(!)

 

Perhaps Graham,

 

But you've so much to do on Grantham in preparation for Doncaster.

 

My plan (me, planning!) is to examine as many prototype shots as I can between now and next month and 'arrange' what goods trains I have to look something like those, in readiness for the pictures being taken.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

55 minutes ago, micklner said:

Proffesionally  built and painted final price £1000.00 or more . ?? Not really viable for many people ??.

Good evening Mick,

 

Professionally-built/painted locos have never been viable for many people, such is the nature of the market. 

 

Yes, £1,000.00 or more sounds a lot for a DJH A1 professionally-made/painted, though I'd be asking quite a bit more. If that sounds mercenary, it's not meant to be. I always guarantee (for my lifetime) locos I've made will work; be able to do in model form what their prototypes were able to, without fuss or failure, without jerking/stalling and without derailing. So far (over 30+ years), how often has my guarantee been called on? Twice; to replace two respective Mashima motors (which I cannot guarantee), one after 20 years of hard running in a King, the other, ironically, because it hadn't been used enough.

 

Yet, after finding new homes for over 100 professionally-built locos in the last 12 months, I have to say I have not been impressed by the majority of their running as I received them. It would appear to me that most professionally-built/painted 4mm locos locos (many costing four figures at source) just live in display cases, because that's (without much in the way of tweaking) all they're good for. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony

[micklner]

Tony

 

 Makes  a current £200 Hornby W1 look a absolute bargain , allowing for possible transport damage (hopefully not ,mine is ok) and the protruding steps and daft rear truck set up !!.

 

cheers

 

Mick

[Chas Levin]

22 hours ago, drmditch said:

I do try to vary tender loads. Some are full, as if newly coaled, and some are getting a bit empty!

 

 

 

 

 

That's a nice observation: I really need to do something similar, as my tenders and wagons all look very well fed... perhaps too well fed...

[robertcwp]

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

As for The Elizabethan.............

 

 

Not a chance RTR. 

 

...unless you model in 0 gauge it seems, as there is a good chance of all the stock being made. I have seen the Ellis Clark Trains Thompson Restaurant First. My main complaint was that it was the wrong scale, ie it should be 4mm scale not 7mm.

[EHertsGER]

7 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

 

London Road appeared in MRJ and RM in the same year. I wrote different articles , to reflect on what I perceived as different audiences. The pictures were by different photographers with different techniques and appeared in what I would call different "house styles".

 

New kits are appearing but possibly what might not be considered in traditional formats. However, they tend to be of less mainstream locos which have have probably already been done or overtaken by the wider choice of RTR models. At the same time the reintroduction of some older but updated kit ranges such as NuCast indicates that there is still demand for such models. Kits tended to be more expensive, with all the bits needed to complete but RTR is catching up and may even have overtaken in some cases.

The new LNWR/LMS Precedent retails at £220, an etched kit for the same with worst case priced items (Markit wheels, HL gearbox and coreless motor) is £206. Popular wheels and motor have become notably more expensive but there are cheaper options that would reduce that pricing to about £170.00. However, the quality of new RTR models , while attracting people to more niche products, is also deterring people from making there own models as they can't replicate those standards.

“Support the British economy, buy a kit.”

…support British Psychiatry…try building it..

[robertcwp]

6 hours ago, zr2498 said:

Tony

How about something on the train formations you operate on the layout. I would have thought valuable information as bound to be as the prototype. Hornby have done that for RTR in their magazines, however something quite new if it includes kit built and modified RTR.

Example below of how Hornby magazine lay the information out

Dave

How many of the train formations that they list are accurate, though? I looked at an article in a magazine a while back - I forget which one - where most of what I saw was very clearly inaccurate.  In fairness though, you can get a long way with RTR stock nowadays, especially in the Mark 1 or later eras. If Hornby get round to doing their LMS kitchen car in BR liveries, things will improve dramatically for LMR steam era modellers too.

 

[westernviscount]

7 hours ago, drmditch said:

The Brake Van is a (modified) Dapol kit

 

Very nice modelling Drm. I am a big fan of the Dapol kits and have also modified a few, including my attempt at an LNER 20t van. 

 

Another project I enjoyed was the conversion of the old airfix/Dapol LMS van into a Stanier reverse...

 

 

[Headstock]

2 hours ago, robertcwp said:

How many of the train formations that they list are accurate, though? I looked at an article in a magazine a while back - I forget which one - where most of what I saw was very clearly inaccurate.  In fairness though, you can get a long way with RTR stock nowadays, especially in the Mark 1 or later eras. If Hornby get round to doing their LMS kitchen car in BR liveries, things will improve dramatically for LMR steam era modellers too.

 

 

Good morning Robert,

 

I notice a BR MK1 RU in the 1951 formation. I'm not an expert on MK1's but isn't that BS?

[Jol Wilkinson]

9 hours ago, EHertsGER said:

“Support the British economy, buy a kit.”

…support British Psychiatry…try building it..

 

As a designer of a number of etched kits, are you implying that I am a fiendish madman, intent on bringing mental anguish to the modelling community?

 

[Chamby]

10 hours ago, robertcwp said:

..... If Hornby get round to doing their LMS kitchen car in BR liveries, things will improve dramatically for LMR steam era modellers too.

 

 

Similar comments about available liveries of assorted RTR stock appear from time to time here.

 

I do wonder why the relatively straightforward task of re-liverying an available RTR product is so commonly seen as a problem, rather than an opportunity?

[LNER4479]

11 hours ago, robertcwp said:

. If Hornby get round to doing their LMS kitchen car in BR liveries, things will improve dramatically for LMR steam era modellers too.

 

... along with a Stanier 12 wheel restaurant car. Now that WOULD be something.