Horsetan Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 A real shame if the range does disappear..... Destined to follow Centre Models, Impetus, Sharman Wheels, etc...... The Blacksmith brand will likely disappear too. A lesson to all who, in a fit of enthusiasm, try to juggle too many plates. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted December 1, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 1, 2013 I think there is still the place in the market for Cooper Craft (or similar), let's hope the impasse is resolved.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassey Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 I have to say that everything I have ordered has arrived promptly and without a hitch and I have ordered quite a lot from the Cooper-Craft website including both the Slater's toplights and Clerestories. I am working on the principal of grabbing what I need when I can on the assumption that it might not be available in the near future; even if this gives me a 20 year forward build schedule. I did get a couple of Blacksmith products at the earlier shows last year just as this range had been acquired. But this year there's been no Blacksmith on display. I was opposite the Cooper-Craft stand at Scaleforum (in the LNWR zone) and from what I can recall, the Morgan kits dominated the stand. There was no Blacksmith range but some Slater's wagons. What also gets me is that at this specialist show, and including ExpoEm North, kits were being sold with OO wheels and not the spec of the show being attended. Surely it would be simple to package these kits with the correct wheels. It would be a shame if the Blacksmith range would totally disappear but I have now resorted to alternative supply such as Worsley Works for etched coaches. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 I have to say that everything I have ordered has arrived promptly and without a hitch and I have ordered quite a lot from the Cooper-Craft website including both the Slater's toplights and Clerestories. I am working on the principal of grabbing what I need when I can on the assumption that it might not be available in the near future; even if this gives me a 20 year forward build schedule. I did get a couple of Blacksmith products at the earlier shows last year just as this range had been acquired. But this year there's been no Blacksmith on display. I was opposite the Cooper-Craft stand at Scaleforum (in the LNWR zone) and from what I can recall, the Morgan kits dominated the stand. There was no Blacksmith range but some Slater's wagons. What also gets me is that at this specialist show, and including ExpoEm North, kits were being sold with OO wheels and not the spec of the show being attended. Surely it would be simple to package these kits with the correct wheels. It would be a shame if the Blacksmith range would totally disappear but I have now resorted to alternative supply such as Worsley Works for etched coaches. Peter Peter, a lot of 00 and EM modellers attend S4um as it has a great selection of traders, some of whom don't appear in daylight for the rest of the year. It's a case of catch 'em when you can. I had an email from Coopercraft some weeks ago saying that he had redrawn the artwork for the LNWR coaches - probably not required as only one was inaccurate as far as I know - but might indicate they are on the way sometime in the future. Jol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brassey Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I ordered a few items on the Cooper Craft website last week. Got an email virtually the next day saying they had been destpatched and they arrived promptly within the next two days despite the Christmas post. So looks like business as usual and no cause for complaint from me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Destined to follow Centre Models, Impetus, Sharman Wheels, etc...... The Blacksmith brand will likely disappear too. A lesson to all who, in a fit of enthusiasm, try to juggle too many plates. Or have the belief that they can make a living from a hobby. All too often the business is grossly overvalued on sale and what appears to be a solid business turns out to be a load of old worn out molds/poor masters and held together by the un transferable and elevated "expertise" of the previous owner. I hope, if up for sale, the buyer takes considerable advice on the viability of the investment. Now what was that about a GW Mex etched kit? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Or have the belief that they can make a living from a hobby. All too often the business is grossly overvalued on sale and what appears to be a solid business turns out to be a load of old worn out molds/poor masters and held together by the un transferable and elevated "expertise" of the previous owner. I hope, if up for sale, the buyer takes considerable advice on the viability of the investment. You know about the story behind Crownline, then! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJChurchward Posted December 24, 2013 Share Posted December 24, 2013 I haven't been following this thread, but have just found it after once again having a nose on the Blacksmith website. I hope to produce a number of GWR siphons in 4mm, by detailing the excellent RTR body shells and adding etched underframes, a kit for which was available from Blacksmith some time in the past, but doesn't appear on the website. Well, the website's clearly never been working properly, and perhaps it's available, perhaps not. Who knows? Some years ago, I was planning to upgrade quite a few RTR locomotives with Perseverance chassis kits. I got started with that project, and Perseverance suddenly became very scarce. I think that was a similar situation - someone biting off more than they could chew (he bought up several other ranges apart from Perseverance). I don't know why anyone would want to buy up a range and then withdraw it through lack of resources to keep it in production. That doesn't sound like good business sense to me. But my concern is how to obtain some of these underframe kits. Any ideas? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted December 25, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 25, 2013 I haven't been following this thread, but have just found it after once again having a nose on the Blacksmith website. I hope to produce a number of GWR siphons in 4mm, by detailing the excellent RTR body shells and adding etched underframes, a kit for which was available from Blacksmith some time in the past, but doesn't appear on the website. Well, the website's clearly never been working properly, and perhaps it's available, perhaps not. Who knows? Some years ago, I was planning to upgrade quite a few RTR locomotives with Perseverance chassis kits. I got started with that project, and Perseverance suddenly became very scarce. I think that was a similar situation - someone biting off more than they could chew (he bought up several other ranges apart from Perseverance). I don't know why anyone would want to buy up a range and then withdraw it through lack of resources to keep it in production. That doesn't sound like good business sense to me. But my concern is how to obtain some of these underframe kits. Any ideas? I haven't been following this thread, but have just found it after once again having a nose on the Blacksmith website. I hope to produce a number of GWR siphons in 4mm, by detailing the excellent RTR body shells and adding etched underframes, a kit for which was available from Blacksmith some time in the past, but doesn't appear on the website. Well, the website's clearly never been working properly, and perhaps it's available, perhaps not. Who knows? Some years ago, I was planning to upgrade quite a few RTR locomotives with Perseverance chassis kits. I got started with that project, and Perseverance suddenly became very scarce. I think that was a similar situation - someone biting off more than they could chew (he bought up several other ranges apart from Perseverance). I don't know why anyone would want to buy up a range and then withdraw it through lack of resources to keep it in production. That doesn't sound like good business sense to me. But my concern is how to obtain some of these underframe kits. Any ideas? I have some siphon underframe kits on back order from Kits from Somerset, when I spoke to him at Scaleforum he was still sorting out the castings. The hope is that all will be ready for ExpoEM in May, but I shan't be holding my breath. I have been after those and several other Blacksmiths kits for around 3 years now, fortunantly no dosh has changed hands. HTH SS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted December 25, 2013 Share Posted December 25, 2013 .....I don't know why anyone would want to buy up a range and then withdraw it through lack of resources to keep it in production. That doesn't sound like good business sense to me.... Empire building isn't new. ABS did it, followed by Chris Crawley Models, etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 Empire building isn't new. ABS did it, followed by Chris Crawley Models, etc. Even Hornby have been known to do it. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 I don't know why anyone would want to buy up a range and then withdraw it through lack of resources to keep it in production. That doesn't sound like good business sense to me. I think it has nothing to do with business sense. It has much more to do with altruism. It is a hobby and they may have started with a small range of kits of their own, probably produced simply for their own pleasure to meet a need for their layout. They then sell a few to friends and then go public selling to anyone who wants them. It evolves into a business without them having any business plan or knowledge of the other skills required to run one. Their talent is in say making patterns for castings, or designing etches, or knowing someone who knows something useful like laser cutting. They then see another hobbyist/business being sold where the owner is retiring. They think they can add that to the range with ease and fail completely to realise that what little value there is in the retiring business is only in the owner's expertise and not in stock or quality of business. So they take no advice, pay well over the correct price for some ephemeral "good will" that is worthless and end up with more rouble than they could have imagined. Perhaps they were thinking "I must save that range for the hobby". Sure it would be good to see some of these phoenix rise from the ashes, but sadly I believe they never will. The businesses were purchased well over their true value and life is too short to understand that running a business is not something you do at the weekend or the odd hour a night after a long day at work earning a real living. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 To add to Kenton's views (accurate in many cases), it doesn't always become apparent until the purchase is agree, what a disorganised state the "production facility" is in. Stock managment , packing lists, etc. are sometimes non-existent or disorganised. Too often problems with suppliers cause real difficulties when the new owners try to make some changes, such as using a different etcher or caster. Tools and masters "disappear", etc. When a member of staff at one major supplier of castings tragically died in an accident, no one else new what moulds produced what items for which customer. Those who had retained the patterns or could create new ones were able to transfer the work elsewhere, but those that couldn't were faced with a major problem and consequential disruption to their business. Even if a buyer pays too much for a business there is no reason why it couldn't continue and at least recover some of the cost. Failure to do so is usually down to a lack of expertise in some area(s), something which people will rarely admit to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted December 26, 2013 Share Posted December 26, 2013 Even if a buyer pays too much for a business there is no reason why it couldn't continue and at least recover some of the cost.Sadly on the point of "good will" it is never recoverable. It should always be considered as money thrown away. Sadly the seller will always over value everything, they see it as their life's work and "nest egg" for their retirement. In reality the only part of a business that is such a nest egg is property or cash in the bank. Also, so often, neither party will take adequate professional advice. But it is only a hobby, isn't it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted December 27, 2013 Share Posted December 27, 2013 .... end up with more rouble than they could have imagined. .... The Russian rouble is not exactly a strong currency anyway! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Coopercraft have a stand at the 2014 Southampton MRC Exhibition. http://southamptonmodelrailwaysociety.wordpress.com/exhibition-2013-2/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 5, 2014 Share Posted January 5, 2014 Coopercraft have a stand at the 2014 Southampton MRC Exhibition. http://southamptonmodelrailwaysociety.wordpress.com/exhibition-2013-2/ Who's going? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted January 6, 2014 Share Posted January 6, 2014 Who's going? Me and the Wallet,......or, should it be,... The Wallet and I ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2750 Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Coopercraft have a stand at the 2014 Southampton MRC Exhibition. http://southamptonmodelrailwaysociety.wordpress.com/exhibition-2013-2/ I see Coopercraft are also down to be at Scalefour North, in April. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2750 Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 As posted by Wizard of the Moor, Coopercraft have withdrawn from S4N this year. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/80936-scalefour-north-2014-april-12th13th/?p=1414550 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 I wonder if they'll make it to RailEx....? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 I wonder if they'll make it to RailEx....? As his website still states that he is having trouble with his machine, he may not have much stock available. Only a few of the Mallard kits have made it onto the site as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium M.I.B Posted April 28, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 28, 2014 Still no reply from emails to Cooper-Craft. 14 months now, and not a single reply other than an automated order confirmation. They have never "bounced-back" so they are being received. I have managed to source the items I ordered by buying one at a time when they became available on Ebay through private sellers. The annoying thing is that my order and money were taken and I have not had a single note or email explaining why I am still waiting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 They have never "bounced-back" so they are being received. Received by email server does not mean that they have been READ It could simply be anything from abandonment of the server or email address right up to actively ignoring you. Just like the snail mail postal system never assume a message sent has actually been read or even received by the addressee until a reply or acknowledgement has bent sent back to you. Maybe the replies are even being lost by your email host? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 Just received the EMGS Newsletter - says that Coopercraft are going to be at ExpoEM at Bracknell, 17/18 May Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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