RMweb Gold Taz Posted February 13, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 13, 2013 After successfully completing my first brass coach kit : http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/60952-comet-k42-full-brake/ , I thought I would try something a bit different so for my next project I'm going to have a go at upgrading some Hornby Collet coaches. So I sourced a couple of victims on Ebay: These represent a D95 BSK and a D127 CK and despite being a bit basic on the deatil front are pretty dimensionally accurate. These are some of the more recent releases and so come with the correct 7' bogies, which aren't too bad so I intend to keep them. The previous owner had removed the huge tension locks and replaced them with smaller ones but I intend to use Keen System close couplers. The plan is to replace the sides with Comet etches and detail the roof, ends and underframe. So after a very quick delivery from Geoff I have all the bits I need to get started: The coaches break down like so: First thoughts are that the roof rib details are a bit 'thick' so I'm not sure if I should remove these and replace at the same time I replace the vents. Also the water tank is larger on the model than it was in reality so I'll have to look at removing some of that as well. I also need to find out what colour ex BR 1st and 2nd class compartments were. Also I'm assuming the corridor handrail was varnished wood? Updates to follow as I progress Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Hi Brian, This looks like an interesting project - good to see it posted! I would get rid of the ribs if you are getting shot of all the other roof detail anyway. The coach roof lining tape from Comet is ace for this. All the best, Castle Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 The bogies used to be available as spares, but have become very scarce since manufacture went to China. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted February 19, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 19, 2013 Progress update. The sides have been drilled out for door hinges, door bumpers and handrails. I'll start soldering tomorrow. I have also started on the coupling mechanisms. It would appear that the Keen close couplers were originally designed for this coach as they are such a good fit. The first job is to remove any detail where the coupling units will go: At the same time I filed down to bogie boss level with the solebars. This is because the coaches come with wagon wheels and I will be substituting 14mm coach wheels. This modification is necessary to keep the buffer height correct. The bogies are modified by removing the original couplings and a section from the centre to allow the close coupler to move: And the coupling mechanisms in place: I've also made a first pass on modifying the rooves. The vents have been removed and I have filed down the roof ribs to reduce their prominance. I have also reshaped the water tanks to something more like the prototype. Once I get a coat of primer on I'll get a better idea of how effective these modification are. I have also come to realise that the previous owner flush glazed these coaches. So there will be a free set of flush glazing available if anyone wants it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted February 20, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 20, 2013 Gosh Brian you really have cracked on with this! I will enjoy watching your progress, as I too have a couple of these coaches which I might operate on! Regards, Nick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted February 22, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 22, 2013 Finished all the soldering bits on the sides (door bumpers,hinges and horizontal grab rails). Comparison with the Hornby side shows the errors in the compartment side on the brake third. Where as the corridor side was ok. The compartment side of the CK showing that Hornby side incorrectly has 4 3rd and 3 1st class compartments(although one 3rd is labelled 1st) The corridor side of the CK. Next phase was to remove the Hornby sides: The bodies were cut along the red lines resulting in: As can be seen I have also removed the molded corridor conections and filed off all the end detail. Hopefully reassembly using the brass sides will start tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted February 23, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 23, 2013 Brian.I thought the Comet sides were supposed to be overlayed over the top after removing the surface detail [hand/grabrails] and cutting a rectangle piece out where the windows are.How are you going to attach your sides where theres nothing to glue too.Am I missing something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted February 23, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 23, 2013 Brian, even if they are meant to be stuck on, I'm sure you could bodge something up. Seems a shame now you have done all that work. Regards, Nick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 I rebuilt a Brake Third and a Composite into a Full Third something like 25 years ago. The left-over parts were then used to correct another Composite and even donated a door to correct the anomaly on the Guard's compartment of the Brake Third. I reckon there's still enough left-overs to make a Brake Composite out of another coach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted February 23, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 23, 2013 Rob, that might be one way of doing it but I didn't want to go down that route as it would leave the sides slightly proud of the cantrail. My plan is to glue a plastic strip across the top of the sides which can then be glued to the underside of the cantrail. I will also be glueing the ends to the bodies and the sides to the ends which will leave me with a one piece box struture which I can clip into the underframe. It should be clearer with some photos which I'll put up later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted February 24, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 24, 2013 This is how I fixed the sides to the donor coaches. First off I araldited a 60 thou strip of plasticard across the top of the brass sides. This will provide a strong contact point between the top of the sides and the bottom of the roof. As the sides overlap the coach ends I trimmed a rebate on the ends to take the sides. It's not that obvious in the photo (only has to be 30 thou thickness of the brass) so the red lines indicate what has been filed away. The ends, bodies and the brass sides are then all glued to each other. I just need to tidy it all up now, do a bit of filler work and extend the cantrail to the ends with a bit of microstrip and then I can move onto detailing the ends and rooves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted January 29, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 29, 2014 If I can bump up this thread to see if Taz ever finished this promising project. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted January 29, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 29, 2014 Only just found this... Although I have enough 1/2 finished projects... it looks interesting / fascinating.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted January 30, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2014 Thanks for reviving the thread. A quick update - these stalled and I put them on the back burner. This was because I was having problems retaining the correct tumblehome / turn under for the coach sides. Although comet sides are pre rolled they do rely on the end panels to retain their shape once built up. I found that I didn't/couldn't shape the Hornby plastic ends consistently to the correct profile and I was ending up with a 'wobbly' tumblehome profile. So I have now bought some comet cast ends and have grafted these onto the coaches. This appears to have solved the problem. I have started work on these again so will update the thread in the near future. To be honest I have found this conversion a bit of a faf. For someone like myself who finds modelling time at a premium I would find it much quicker (but more expensive) to build a complete brass kit, so I probably won't be doing any more conversions of these Hornby coaches. But I also have brass sides to attempt conversions of Mainline ex LMS period 1 coaches and Airfix/Dapol ex LMS period 3 coaches so one day I will be attempting more plastic coach carnage Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted January 30, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2014 Ever thought of using the Comet Coaches Soldering Service for part construction to save your self time? OK it costs a bit but Rob has tried this and I'm sure he won't mind me mentioning that. Total interest (no apologies.....) in this service as it's me that does it....... P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 To be honest I have found this conversion a bit of a faf. For someone like myself who finds modelling time at a premium I would find it much quicker (but more expensive) to build a complete brass kit, so I probably won't be doing any more conversions of these Hornby coaches. But I also have brass sides to attempt conversions of Mainline ex LMS period 1 coaches and Airfix/Dapol ex LMS period 3 coaches so one day I will be attempting more plastic coach carnage Hi, just found this thread and enjoyed following your progress. I've done some improvement works on these coaches and used cut and shut to create different types. I did wonder when looking at the amount of parts you had bought off Comet that it might have been cheaper to buy the whole kits. I found this when making a couple of restaurant cars from Comet parts and two airfix B set coaches, but having never made a brass coach I felt more comfortable avoiding having to use a soldering iron. As for the ends I started by cutting off the end detail and them trimming them to fit between the sides, thinking that this made the coach the correct length, but looking at the brass sides from Comet I must have got this wrong. Though your method certainly sorts out the incorrect compartments on the composite. Looking forward to further progress. Dean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted January 30, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2014 . To be honest I have found this conversion a bit of a faf. For someone like myself who finds modelling time at a premium I would find it much quicker (but more expensive) to build a complete brass kit, so I probably won't be doing any more conversions of these Hornby coaches. But I also have brass sides to attempt conversions of Mainline ex LMS period 1 coaches and Airfix/Dapol ex LMS period 3 coaches so one day I will be attempting more plastic coach carnage Interesting, I had been thinking about buying a few of these to do a similar conversion (I also have a few mainline sunshine stock for comet side conversions) I think that after reading this i might reconsider and go for the full kit. (And possibly rethink the sunshine stock as well) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 30, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 30, 2014 Ever thought of using the Comet Coaches Soldering Service for part construction to save your self time? OK it costs a bit but Rob has tried this and I'm sure he won't mind me mentioning that. Total interest (no apologies.....) in this service as it's me that does it....... P So you're saying that we can place an order safe in the knowledge that ... etc? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted January 31, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2014 Ever thought of using the Comet Coaches Soldering Service for part construction to save your self time? OK it costs a bit but Rob has tried this and I'm sure he won't mind me mentioning that. Total interest (no apologies.....) in this service as it's me that does it....... P Mad duck, Whilst I know your work would be top notch, I've never liked paying someone to do a job which I am capable of doing myself (which sort of explains all the DIY I do and the resulting lack of modelling time....) I actually enjoy brass coach building so am happy to devote modelling time to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted January 31, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2014 Interesting, I had been thinking about buying a few of these to do a similar conversion (I also have a few mainline sunshine stock for comet side conversions) I think that after reading this i might reconsider and go for the full kit. (And possibly rethink the sunshine stock as well) Rich, Just because I would prefer the full kit option, doesn't mean it is the best way. You may be more skilled at hacking up plastic than me There is also the cost implications. The converted coach (even with cast ends) still comes in at around half the cost of a full comet kit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Fatadder Posted January 31, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2014 Rich, Just because I would prefer the full kit option, doesn't mean it is the best way. You may be more skilled at hacking up plastic than me There is also the cost implications. The converted coach (even with cast ends) still comes in at around half the cost of a full comet kit. Thanks again, When reading it I was thinking that would be something I would find annoying, and that a full brass model would be more satisfying That said, might still buy a set of sides/ends and have a go if I find a sufficiently cheap doaner model. Must get the clesterory and the b sets finished first though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Taz Posted July 1, 2014 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted July 1, 2014 Right, it's about time I gave an update on these. As said above I hit a problem trying to merge the Hornby ends with the Comet sides and retaining the correct tumblehome. So I bought some Comet cast ends and used these. Here they are merged with the Hornby roof and Comet brass sides. The reason they are painted is so that I could see how the filler/sanding to merge the end/roof join was going. I then moved onto the under frame. As I wanted to replace all the undergubbins I used my Dremil to cut out all the existing detail. A piece of plasticard was then glued on top ready to receive the new details: The trussrods, battery boxes and dynamos were then made up on a separate brass sub base (note the correct layout compared to the Hornby model): This was then glued into the hole left by my Dremil handywork: Note I have added some brass L angle to strengthen the running boards, which had become a little to floppy once I had hacked out the middle of the floor. When I tried to reintroduce the two bits back together I hit my next problem. With the correct tumblehome the chassis was now too wide for the coach body to fit. I couldn't really narrow it by cutting out a section as that would mean the close coupling mechanisms and redone brass details would no longer fit. So I fudged it by cutting down the thickness of the floor with the Dremil: It looks messy but it works. Attention then switched to the interior. Neither Hornby interior was quite correct. The CK incorrectly had 4 2nd and 3 1st compartments and the BSK had too many compartments. So I cut the interior up: Then rebuilt it using plasticard into something more correct: After a coat of paint I think it will pass muster as the coaches whizz by on the layout: I've now been working on detailing the ends using the Comet coach detailing etch, .33 and .45 wire and a bit of plasticard for the train alarm junction box: Its getting close now. Next job is to give it all a tidy up and clean and get a coat of primer on to see how all the bits look together. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted July 1, 2014 Share Posted July 1, 2014 Why the variation in battery box position between the two underframes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mallard60022 Posted July 1, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 1, 2014 Why the variation in battery box position between the two underframes? I believe the Brake Coach had them in a different arrangement? Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Brinkly Posted July 1, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 1, 2014 I admire your patients on this project Brian! Looking really nice. Nick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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