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neal

Mk 1 CK window query

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I noticed on the Bachmann CK E15055 (and similar on other liveried CK's) that one of the windows has a thicker surround, painted into the window glazing on the model.

 

Assuming this to be prototypically correct, does anyone know why this window is framed in this way. It looks similar to a contemporary 'break-out' window on modern stock.

 

This can be seen on:

 

http://www.ehattons.com/26504/Bachmann_UK_39_127C_BR_Mk1_CK_Composite_Corridor_in_Crimson_Cream/StockDetail.aspx

 

Neal

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It is indeed a breakaway window.

 

I have a book showing the window with an ambulance stretcher being manhandled through it! Only on a training excercise.

 

I'll root the book out and see if there's any more details.

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

Edited by the penguin of doom
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It is indeed a breakaway window.

 

I have a book showing the window with an ambulance stretcher being manhandled through it! Only on a training excercise.

 

I'll root the book out and see if there's any more details.

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

There's a photo in Keith Parkins book... but that's probably not a great surprise :yes:

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This is correct.  It is commonly referred to as the "stretcher window" and had a full-size opening pane hence the indented and thicker (actually an additional) frame.  Hinged at the top it was designed to be pushed out in the event of an emergency for stretchers to be taken inside.  This was not possible through the 2' wide doors and side corridors of Mk1 stock.

 

The decline and virtual elimination of Mk1 compartment stock from main line use and its replacement with wider doors on (mostly open plan) Mk2 and later carriages meant there was no need to perpetuate the feature.

 

It could be found on CK vehicles which would have been formed into almost all trains at one time and including the 4Cep and 4Bep SR EMU units built to virtually standard Mk1 designs.  The feature is correctly represented on the middle of the three second (standard) class compartment windows of Bachmann Mk1 vehicles although curiously not on the Cep models.

Edited by Gwiwer
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We've been here before. 

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/33312-mk1-ck-coach-windows/

 

As I understand it, it was for routine transport of people in stretchers rather than any kind of emergency access.  This doesn't seem to have been very common and with the advent of better road ambulances and better roads it presumably stopped being needed quite soon afterwards. 

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We've been here before. 

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/33312-mk1-ck-coach-windows/

 

As I understand it, it was for routine transport of people in stretchers rather than any kind of emergency access.  This doesn't seem to have been very common and with the advent of better road ambulances and better roads it presumably stopped being needed quite soon afterwards.

As well as day-to-day intra-hospital transport, might they have been intended also for pilgrimage traffic as far as the Channel Ports? Whilst such traffic never reached the extent that it did elsewhere in Europe, I believe that trains did run from Scotland and Northern England as far as the Channel, with the pilgrims being transferred to ferries and thence to SNCF stock. These days, pilgrimage traffic still crosses the Channel, but in 'Jumbo Ambulances'. SNCF, along with other mainland companies, still runs pilgrimage trains, using standard stock for those who can use them, and specially-built 'ambulance' stock for the rest. One such train ran from Calais recently.

Just logged on to one of the French sites; it seems there was a Calais-Lourdes this morning. The second photo on this site shows the train; the dedicated 'pilgrim' stock is at the front. The upper part of the window slides down, allowing a stretcher to be passed out.

 

http://lapassiondutrain.blogspot.com.au/

Edited by Fat Controller

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Not all 4 Cep units had stretcher windows.  The doors on the corridor side of a CK were arranged so that there was one directly opposite the compartment with the stretcher window.

 

Later builds of Mark I CK had a less conspicuous design, like this:

 

4674164777_9e4cf3e596.jpg
M16190_Carlisle_1978 by robertcwp, on Flickr

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There's a photo in Keith Parkins book... but that's probably not a great surprise :yes:

Thanks GriffGriff.

 

This was the book I was thinking of. Obviously, can't post the picture due to copyrights....

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

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Thanks one and all, and apologies for not finding the topic previously covered!

 

Neal

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They were bloomin draughty windows because the window frames didnt have any realistic form of seal in between them either.

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the carriage standards committee minutes in the parkin mk1 supplement have frequent mention of the stretcher windows and their corrosion problems & lack of wind/watertightness

 

BR were keen just to get rid, but were overruled by the Ministry of Health - presumably some sort of statutory provision for TB/polio/etc. cases who needed non-emergency transport.

 

didn't manage to find an on-line pic of the window in use, but did find one showing the internal catches etc.

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/70023venus2009/5888641136

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didn't manage to find an on-line pic of the window in use, but did find one showing the internal catches etc.

 

If I could find my Woodhead railtour trip pictures, I'm sure we took one of the window in use at 60 mph......... :nono:

 

Cheers,

Mick

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i'm sure if at least one of you were on a stretcher, then it was probably ok.....:D

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Sorry to reopen an old thread but a current one got me thinking about these 

Any idea why they were onk fitted to CKs you would think SKs would have been better as if they used the CK type corridor side window arrangement they could have had two per vehicle 

I do wonder how often they were used I bet just vehicles never used them at all

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The Trans Pennine emus had the stretcher window in the MBS, the compartment that was use had the external door lined up with the compartment door, just like a CK. Apparently some stretchers would fit through the door.

 

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At least one CK on the Severn Valley Railway has the stretcher window extant. From memory it was released by means of budget locks on the exterior, and then swung upwards and inwards to allow the stretcher in.

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11 hours ago, EddieK said:

Stretcher window also fitted to Scottish Class 120 DMUs.

https://www.railcar.co.uk/images/7354

 

That would be good in an emergency, driver needs to get out of his cab in a hurry and confronted by some ###### flat out on a stretcher! 

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On one of my, er, very frequent visits to Truro station in the late '60s I recall seeing somebody on a stretcher being 'loaded' through one of these windows. They were wheeled into position on a trolley with pneumatic tyres which nobody ever seemed to get around to pumping up by a porter we called Lurch (you'd know why if you saw him ;) !)

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22 hours ago, russ p said:

Sorry to reopen an old thread but a current one got me thinking about these 

Any idea why they were onk fitted to CKs you would think SKs would have been better as if they used the CK type corridor side window arrangement they could have had two per vehicle 

I do wonder how often they were used I bet just vehicles never used them at all

 

Good point, however I would have thought a brake vehicle, eg BCK/BSK/BSO, would have been even more logical, as every train needed at least one !

 

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On 23/02/2020 at 18:31, caradoc said:

 

Good point, however I would have thought a brake vehicle, eg BCK/BSK/BSO, would have been even more logical, as every train needed at least one !

 

The traffic these compartments were designed to accommodate was 'invalids', accompanied by a nurse, travelling to the West Country to enjoy the benefit of the 'fresh air'. GWR brakes tended to have one compartment with a door and two quarterlights both on corridor and compartment sides. One assumes that the stretcher could be passed through the doorway, giving access from either side. I recall seeing such an invalid and nurse during a summer holiday journey to Dawlish, Devon.

 

The Mark 1 stock was not originally designed with this feature. One assumes, at the behest of the WR management, the prototype CK was redesigned with a stretcher window and door to the compartment on the corridor side.

 

The window opened inwards and was held up during loading by clips attached to the two luggage racks. 16210 on the Bluebell Railway had the opening window replaced by a standard frame, but the clips are still attached to the luggage racks.

 

Martin

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On 23/02/2020 at 18:31, caradoc said:

 

Good point, however I would have thought a brake vehicle, eg BCK/BSK/BSO, would have been even more logical, as every train needed at least one !

 

Moreover, the brake carries a stretcher.

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Let's get the terminology right then.  They were officially known as 'direct access windows' serving 'direct access compartments'.  As others have already noted the purpose was to allow the loading of a stretcher and the method was for whoever was making a booking to request either a direct access compartment (if they were familiar with the process - which most were) or to ask for a compartment to which a stretcher could be loaded.  The entire compartment was then reserved, after first making sure that there was either a vehicle with direct access formed in the train regularly or arrangements had been made to ensure that one would be added to the booked formation.  it was sometimes necessary to alter platforming to ensure the direct access window was platform side at both Paddington and the destination - Platform 1 was the preferred platform for loading outwards stretcher passengers  as it was nearest to road vehicle access.

 

From my experience dealing with the 'Saloon List' at Paddington ( a fancy name for what at Swansea was simply called 'Station Orders') in the mid 1960s I reckon we had at least one direct access booking a week with sometimes several in a week (we were of course almost next door to a large hospital).  Destinations could quite literally be anywhere that had a through service from Paddington.  But they weren't normally booked on shorter distance services, presumably because the NHS (the usual customer) preferred to use ambulances for patient movements or transfers over shorter distances.

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Something I never encountered in my 70s railway career.  It must have had a bearing on the allocation of CKs 

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