The FORGOTTEN, Forgotten Underground Stations

[iL Dottore]

I have long been a LTU enthusiast, all stemming from those summer days in late childhood (before adolescence hit with the impact of a psychotic Hippo on Angel Dust) when I would cadge 2/6d  5/- from my Aunt, buy a Double Twin-Rover pass and head to London - to not only visit the museums (a favourite being the then "proper" Science Museum) but also to explore the underground. Which in 1967-68 was pretty much in original condition, with some quite antique stock. Not only was the old rolling stock much more comfortable than today's, but when it went over points the main lighting in the carriages flickered off allowing me glimpses through the windows of mysterious tunnels leading who knows where and - sometimes - distant stations glanced at, at the end of tunnels... All creating a sense of curiosity, of "what's down there?, where does it go?"

 

I am currently going through a rather creative period and I have sketched out some ideas for two Underground layouts. The first is based on the old Angel on the Northern line, with the single platform between the tracks (alas, now "modernised"). It's called Camden Lock and is a relief station for the very busy Camden Town station.

 

The plan:

 

The idea would be to see the entire platform and just a glimpse of the entrance to the viewing side tunnel. With this plan you could have just two trains that shuttle between each fiddle yard passing each other at Camden Lock station, running automaticallly on DCC/PC Control. The cross section of the (viewer) visible part of the layout is as follows:

 

I think that this would be quite an easy build.

 

The next design is inspired by a recent trip on the Overground (former East London Line section), which brought back memories on travelling on the District Line in the 1960s. And how the trip between Mile End and Kensington always revealed lines "going off" to barely glimpsed stations (the Aldgate junction perhaps?) and provided glimpses of mysterious tunnels that my train never, ever took. The other thing that stayed with me (and came back in a rash of nostalgia whilst on the Overground) was the interplay between the darkness of the cut 'n' cover tunnels and the brightness of the open (air shaft??) sections.

 

These two memories (the glimpsed station and the light and dark play) I have tried to incorporate into the next design: Royal Docks (a tunnel leading to a end-of-line station which is a spur off the East London Line, serving the docks).

As can be seen the station is "glimpsed off"

Next is the cross section of the tunnels:

And finally, the next (using an image grabbed off the internet) is the effect of light and dark I hope could be achieved on this layout:

 

All drawings are sketches and are certainly NOT to scale (or anywhere near it).

 

Your thoughts, comments, suggestions?

 

iD

p.s. this is very much a "thought exercise" which I'll be playing with over the next few months and I'll be posting my cogitations on the construction, detailing etc., for consideration and critique. However, if anyone wants to have a go at one of the 2 layouts, please do, I'd love to see what could be done

 

edited to correct ticket price and name (well it was 40+ years ago)

[trisonic]

You remember the Underground just as I did, F. Remember the lovely warm smell (years before people started to urinate everywhere), the uplights on the old wooden escalators?

The old "Twin Rover" was the best bargain in London.

 

Good luck, Pete.

 

Edited to Twin Rover

[Metr0Land]

Interesting concept.  I always had a fascination for the widened lines which of course was another 'in and out' series of tunnels etc.  I always associate the small of Jeyes fluid with cleaning underground platforms.

 

(BTW weren't they called Twin Rovers not double rovers?)

[jamie92208]

I like the second idea better. I was also fascinated by the same sort of feel when I briefly lived in London in 1971. I always fancied doing a tube layout possibly in one of the places where there is a connecting tunnel to one of the other lines such as in the Kings Cross area. I will watch progress with interest.

 

Jamie

[chrisf]

MetroLand is right, they were called Twin Rovers. With a friend I used to buy Red Rovers [the Central Area only version] to explore the trolleybus routes that were about to be converted to Routemasters. IIRC they were half a crown!

 

Flavio/iD, did you get to see Copenhagen Fields at Ally Pally? It includes a working model of the Piccadilly Line built by Stewart Hine, that very clever man who gave the world the Pentroller and is Vice President of Pendon Museum.

 

Chris

[iL Dottore]

I obviously did not remember the right name of the ticket, but whatever the name; 2/6d got an amazing days entertainment (and learning) for a young lad.

Of the two designs, Royal Docks would be the most challenging (but the most rewarding and atmospheric) and probably the most costly to build (two Q Stock units alone would cost north of £250) - but it might be an amusing diversion from St Cuthberts. Any potential long-distance would-be helpers out there?

F

p.s. Chris, I didn't get to see Copenhagen Fields this time around, but I've seen it before (it's amazing) - it's at the same level as Pendon and the perfect riposte to those who say we "play at trains"

[Oldddudders]

http://www.yellins.co.uk/transporthistory/Tickets/redrover.html

[Lord of Narnia]

I really like the second option too. There is plenty of scope to run most types of surface stock including freight! The East London was always interesting as it used the left over stock from other lines - usually the oldest available!

[pointstaken]

I obviously did not remember the right name of the ticket, but whatever the name; 2/6d got an amazing days entertainment (and learning) for a young lad.

 

 

 

But also for five bob you could have a combined bus/train ticket IIRC.  Did a lot of travelling that way.

 

Dennis

[unravelled]

Living by the (now) Overground, I like the second plan, but you'll need some more points. As it stands you can't run into the upper platform except wrong line. Alternatively the upper platform could be abandoned, and just the lower used. After all Whitechapel, and I think Shoreditch, reversed trains at a single platforms, thanks to an infrequent service.

 

In some ways the layout reflects the East London Line around Whitechapel, with that as the station, and St Mary's curve leading round to the District line.

 

Would a section of Thames tunnel lead to the fiddle yard...

 

If you want current photos of the area let me know

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[PhilJ W]

If you want a few ideas pop along to Acton Town this coming weekend (13/14 April). Its the LT Museum Depot modelling weekend.

[Southernboy]

If you were to model the first layout based on Angel, then you could find inspiration from Clapham North and Clapham South, which still have a central platform.

 

But both plans have their merits and I'd be hard pressed to choose... I suppose for 'operational' interest the second is better, whilst the first allows you to sit back and simply watch trains if you wish.

[cornelius]

Just build a double deck layout with the deep level tube part under the sub surface one. Problem solved!

[Dagworth]

Flavio,

 

Your profile of the platform tunnel for Angel/Camden lock is wrong. Angel (and all 'tube' platform tunnels) is a round tube not an oval. Other than that I love the idea. There was a layout at Cheltenham show this weekend called Oxford Road which has a beautifully modelled tube station underneath it.

Clapham Common Tube by Phil Wareham, on Flickr

 

Also see http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/61661-what-to-do-with-5x1-in-00/

 

Andi

[iL Dottore]

Flavio,

 

Your profile of the platform tunnel for Angel/Camden lock is wrong. Angel (and all 'tube' platform tunnels) is a round tube not an oval.

 

Andi

Thanks for the reference photo, Andi. Yes, I had realised it was wrong, but I was just sketching out some ideas and wasn't sure how much bigger than the tunnels was the station "tube" - so I "winged it"

 

And I was totally, totally wrong.... (serve me right for not looking at a reference photo whilst sketching)

 

I'll play with the sketches sometime this week and post the updates

 

F

[iL Dottore]

Living by the (now) Overground, I like the second plan, but you'll need some more points. As it stands you can't run into the upper platform except wrong line. Alternatively the upper platform could be abandoned, and just the lower used. After all Whitechapel, and I think Shoreditch, reversed trains at a single platforms, thanks to an infrequent service.

 

In some ways the layout reflects the East London Line around Whitechapel, with that as the station, and St Mary's curve leading round to the District line.

 

Would a section of Thames tunnel lead to the fiddle yard...

 

If you want current photos of the area let me know

 

Thanks

 

Dave

Thanks for the offer of photos Dave (by the way I'll pm you about a meet up the next time I'm in London)

 

What would you suggest for the trackplan?

 

Not sure yet about whether or not one tunnel leading off to the fiddleyard would be the Thames tunnel. Probably not, as doing so would commit me (or whomever builds it) to more prototypical accuracy than the design intends

 

F

[PatB]

St Saviours in the Marshes perhaps, with a cameo of a short, harried vicar on the platorm?

[unravelled]

Thames tunnel. Probably not,

Shame, I've got photos...

 

R0015322 by unravelled, on Flickr

 

I don't know what would be prototypical for the period, but the shortest would be a scissors at the platform end.

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[iL Dottore]

Very nice picture (but how did you get the shot?)..... How very tempting....

 

Let me cogitate further.....

 

F

[Xerces Fobe2]

If you want a few ideas pop along to Acton Town this coming weekend (13/14 April). Its the LT Museum Depot modelling weekend.

 Come and say hello - I am there with Croxley Wiggenhall Road Depot

 

Nigel

[iL Dottore]

Thanks for the invitations, Phil, Nigel, but I'm afraid I'll still be in Switzerland (at home) that weekend. I'm not back in London until May

 

I've tweaked tthe designs a bit

 

Camden Lock:

Royal Docks (I've enlarged the scenic section and modified the track plan adding a scissors crossover)

 

F

[unravelled]

Very nice picture (but how did you get the shot?)..... How very tempting....

 

Let me cogitate further.....

 

F

I was lucky enough to get in on a society tour during the rebuild. More pics near that one on flickr

 

Btw, how about turning the design into a roundy? It would end up deeper, but hidden sharp curves should be shorter than the twin fiddleyards as drawn. Putting the station outside the loop could allow a longer platform or make the layout narrower.

 

Dave

[Dagworth]

Thanks for the invitations, Phil, Nigel, but I'm afraid I'll still be in Switzerland (at home) that weekend. I'm not back in London until May

 

I've tweaked tthe designs a bit

 

Camden Lock:

Camden Lock II.jpg

Royal Docks (I've enlarged the scenic section and modified the track plan adding a scissors crossover)

Royal Docks II.jpg

 

F

I *think* the exit tunnel for Camden Lock needs to be higher above the running tunnels so that as the passage turns it clears the running tunnel. Again you can see this on the Clapham Common picture.

 

Andi

[The Stationmaster]

Unabashed, unashamed, great big biased vote for the first one - I was always fascinated by those narrow island platform Northern Line stations as they survived in the 1960s.

[iL Dottore]

I *think* the exit tunnel for Camden Lock needs to be higher above the running tunnels so that as the passage turns it clears the running tunnel. Again you can see this on the Clapham Common picture.Andi

you're right, again (he mutters grumpily). I'm not really seriously designing these layouts, they are a way of testing out some ideas about designs. Your comments Andi have, however, shown that the superficially simpler design of Camden Lock is actually full of pit falls; you can hide a lot of bodging in the darkened tunnels of Royal Docks, but the layout of Camden Lock needs to be quite accurate to get the right "feel" across.

 

iD