sub39h Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Hi guys,I was wondering if anyone had any photos of the Mk3 BFO in Intercity Exec livery? I understand that there were 4 made and they were used on the WCML to replace Mk1 BGs. I seem to have conflicting information about whether they were run on their own at the back of the train or a DVT was behind them. (My desired rake is going to be: Loco + TSO + TSO + RFM + PFO + PFO + PFO + PFO + BFO + DVT. I know it's not prototypical but I think it would look good.) Either way, I'd like to model one but I can't really find any photos to go off. There are some photos of them in Virgin livery and FGW livery, but these seem to differ. I've also seen a sort of CGI rendering of one, but to my eyes it looks like a TGS rather than a BFO. Any information you might have would be most appreciated. (Also if anyone knows if/where I might be able to get some body sides for this in 4mm I would be most appreciative. I have found the set below, but the chap seems to be modelling a later era and so I think they might not be right for me: http://www.marstonparkway.org.uk/fgw_decals_38.html) Also I was wondering if anyone knows where I might be able to get some for an RFM (aside from Hurst models - like most of their products online they're listed as out of stock). Thanks very much Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 There's some brilliant info in the third to last post on this page: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=31111 If i remember rightly, the picture that was in that post that sadly no-longer works used to show a whole mk3 pullman train behind an 86 heading up the WCML. It had a mk3 BFO just behind the engine at the start of the train followed by mk3 buffet, 3 mk3 pullmans, mk1 buffet in blue/grey, 4 or 5 mk3 TSOs in IC exec, and finally a mk2 aircon BSO in blue/grey (they was another site that also linked to that picture with a full run down of what the train consisted of, not sure where that is though.) HTH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Not very good quality as a quick snap on a small camera: BFO_3b_Crewe_7-91 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Liking the photo of the wrong way round BFO...!! There were only three (17173-5), and were really easy to spot in photos as they were the only Mk3 coach (Royals included) that had the windows out of position on the bodyside, every other vehicle having set pillar positions regardless of the window size. I built one once, using a Lima TGS- just a simple job of moving the windows. Apologies, you'll need another Mk3 to cut the windows from and graft into the TGS bodyshell. But if you're modelling a proper WCML Mk3 Buffet, you'll also need some larger picture windows to add to that too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Hi I been looking for a postible photo but haven't been successful yet. As for looking like a TGS is correct as they where the last three mark 3 to be completed (17173/ 17174/ 17175). At the guards end was a compartment with the hydraulic brake equipment and an office. They only had 7 large windows with a wider than usual spacing between the end of the first class seating area and the guards office. This end also had the extra door flap, just like a TGS. Since Virgin and first have had them an extra window has been added. Regards Vin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vin Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I'll just edit myself. One side had 7 windows and the other had 8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted June 4, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 4, 2013 Apart from the sleepers, IIRC, they were the only Mk3's to have integral red tail lights in the ends. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim H Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I've seen two of them in the same train before now in their current use with FGW on the sleeper, once with the 'spare' vehicle substituting for a TSO, and once strengthening the set on a Friday night (which had five sleepers as well, making a nine-car train) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 For anyone interested, the original paint dates were: 17173 = 18.11.85 17174 = 25.10.85 17175 = 4.12.85 They spent their first six months or so inside Litchurch Lane Works most of the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted June 4, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 4, 2013 photo showing the other side to that shown in robertcwp's pic above: http://80srail.zenfolio.com/p520092474/h6ae915e#h6ae915e in addition to the mk3a sleepers and the BFOs, the mk3b 'pullman' FOs also had the built in tail-lights some pics in virgin and FGW service (unfortunately all from the same '2 window' side): http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/Coaches/Mk3-Coaching-Stock-Loco-hauled/Mk3-BFO-AE1G/16765643_qDsZbb#!i=1264983149&k=LG6Gh4s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sub39h Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 thanks everyone. i quite like that photo above of the BFO the wrong way around! It also confirms that it ran with a DVT, even though I think it's sort of strange to have them both. i think the reason I was getting confused regarding the BFO was because i have seen some later photo somewhere of the "two window" side, and assumed that they'd had a major update at some point, kind of like the Chiltern Mainline RFM which now has full windows nearly all the way along the side. thanks all for your help. the link above for BFO bodies is therefore correct and i shall get some to make one. final question: what paint did they have from new? was it Exec or Swallow? I read somewhere that it was Exec and that they were almost designed to run with the PFOs, but didn't get Pullman branding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Executive. Bogie springs were yellow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastwestdivide Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Going back to the OP's query on formations, there's an interesting Pullman formation here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/52967-photo-location-id-help-please/?p=629468 with discussion above and below. Not Loco + TSO + TSO + RFM + PFO + PFO + PFO + PFO + BFO + DVT but Loco BG BFO etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted June 5, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 5, 2013 I have photos of all of them in Virgin livery (ca 2002) - if these are of interest let me know and I will dig them out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westie7 Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Like 298 I did the conversion from Lima TGS Didn't use another coach, just filled the end windows and then pilot drilled the corners for the new ones, cut them out and used extreme etchings frames Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sub39h Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 Going back to the OP's query on formations, there's an interesting Pullman formation here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/52967-photo-location-id-help-please/?p=629468 with discussion above and below. Not Loco + TSO + TSO + RFM + PFO + PFO + PFO + PFO + BFO + DVT but Loco BG BFO etc. That certainly is interesting. mine will be pulled by a Heljan 86 though. will probably invest in a 90 once someone makes a decent one! Like 298 I did the conversion from Lima TGS Didn't use another coach, just filled the end windows and then pilot drilled the corners for the new ones, cut them out and used extreme etchings frames yeah last night whilst reading around I learned of these new window frames. i can't seem to get the shawplan or the extreme etchings websites to give me the details though! i've started sanding down the unneeded window frames on a regular TSO which was a bit knackered and needed a respray anyway. I have photos of all of them in Virgin livery (ca 2002) - if these are of interest let me know and I will dig them out. that would be helpful, thank you! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Thought I have a picture somewhere..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted June 5, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 5, 2013 Bit more info here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/44668-mk-3-bfo-formations/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
westie7 Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 " i've started sanding down the unneeded window frames on a regular TSO which was a bit knackered and needed a respray anyway. " Remember you need to start with the TGS as it has the additional door in the guards compartment Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornish Triang Paul Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Nice shot of 73. At one time, 74 and 75 also had steps under guard end on both sides but 75 has since had them removed. Or is it 74 ? Cricky I was only on one three hours ago !!. Shots on Flikr show current window set up on Night Riviera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sub39h Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 " i've started sanding down the unneeded window frames on a regular TSO which was a bit knackered and needed a respray anyway. " Remember you need to start with the TGS as it has the additional door in the guards compartment ah ###### i'd forgotten about that. i don't have a spare Lima TGS! I do have a (same tooling) Hornby one though. (i've gone for the Lima Mk3s over the Hornby ones as the colours are better and this makes more of a difference than, for example, having flush glazing imho.) I suppose I can use the sanded down TSO for my RFM conversion, but this I think I almost certainly would need a body etch for as the smaller windows would be almost impossible to recreate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted June 5, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 5, 2013 One to hand, I'll try and get the others over the weekend 12 July 2002 Runcorn AE1G, BFO, Open Brake First, 17174, in 1A88, 17:45, Liverpool Lime Street - London Euston Edited to correct location Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 The diagram book available on the Barrowmore MRG site shows the layout (see page 143): http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/BRBDocuments/Diagram_Book_200_for_issue.pdf#page=143 Unlike the HST TGS, there was a corridor past the guard's compartment and van area. I recall seeing a set working out of Euston in the final years of Mark IIIa/b stock on front-line WCML services that was formed with a BFO next to a DVT. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sub39h Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 just out of interest, has anyone noticed that the majority of photos seem to have the BFO the wrong way around with the guards compartment in between two carriages rather than at the end of the train? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Fisher Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 http://shawplan.wordpress.com/laserglaze/ Lists current products... And doesnt PH Designs do window blanks? I know Southern Pride do glazing too, maybe worth a look for the different windows. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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