4mm Edwardian figures

[BG John]

Qualtiy 1860 figures in 4mm scale. Who would have thought that a few years ago! 

We just need RTR locos and rolling stock to go with them now .

[ChrisN]

Andy Stadden sent me some enlarged pictures

 

1860 figures

 

 

and loco crew

 

 

He said he had just been reading how clothes were sold second, third and even fifth hand so these could have appeared later.  I will buy a set and have one pair of old folk in their Sunday best that they bought over thirty years earlier.  I have seen a picture of an old lady in 1860s clothes taken many years later

[Mikkel]

I like that fireman! Looks like they are from the new batch of footplate crew with separate arms. 

[ChrisN]

I have just seen Andy Stadden's Blog.  It looks like it will be a good Christmas.  I have already put my order in.  (Well, to my youngest son who understands modelling and wanted to know what I wanted for Christmas.)

[Anotheran]

I have just seen Andy Stadden's Blog.  It looks like it will be a good Christmas.  I have already put my order in.  (Well, to my youngest son who understands modelling and wanted to know what I wanted for Christmas.)

 

Thanks (I think) for this Chris. I've just placed my order. I have no idea what I'm going to do with them mind, unless I imagine Newcastle Emlyn was actually reached as originally planned instead of in 1896... but if that was the case it would have been broad gauge! I'll just have to make some of them look like rather elderly people in their ancient Sunday best!

[ChrisN]

Thanks (I think) for this Chris. I've just placed my order. I have no idea what I'm going to do with them mind, unless I imagine Newcastle Emlyn was actually reached as originally planned instead of in 1896... but if that was the case it would have been broad gauge! I'll just have to make some of them look like rather elderly people in their ancient Sunday best!

 

Neil,

Have I said here that I have seen a picture of an old lady in the 1890s dressed in her best for a photo wearing the high fashion of the 1860s?  At least two of the working class people you could use as is.  There will be loco crews so I hope at east one has a bowler hat!  You will also get Brunel, who can stand in a corner somewhere reflecting on how 'his railway' has progressed.

 

I think they are too good to be missed and I have asked Andrew if he is going to do them sitting down as I think it would be fun to fill my 1860s built stock with 1860s people.

[Edwardian]

Neil,

Have I said here that I have seen a picture of an old lady in the 1890s dressed in her best for a photo wearing the high fashion of the 1860s?  At least two of the working class people you could use as is.  There will be loco crews so I hope at east one has a bowler hat!  You will also get Brunel, who can stand in a corner somewhere reflecting on how 'his railway' has progressed.

 

I think they are too good to be missed and I have asked Andrew if he is going to do them sitting down as I think it would be fun to fill my 1860s built stock with 1860s people.

 

Quite agree.  They afford the tempting possibility that, should I ever get Castle Aching up and running, I could have an opening ceremony for the layout that recreated in model form the line's late 1850s opening ceremony! 

[Jol Wilkinson]

Andrew's are assuredly the best Edwardian figures on the market. The other figures seem undernourished and pinched or poorly proportioned and clumsy. I have bought all of his so far released - although I haven't used them all for fear of over populating the platforms. I am fortunate in having mine painted by Cat Gibbs;

 

https://en-gb.facebook.com/Cats.Custom.Characters/

 

 

The pony and trap are from Dart Castings, the pony again painted by Cat.

 

Although Langley produce some marching Edwardian soldiers, some military and naval figures in "rest" poses would be good to have. As I don't believe in wish lists I have started to make some inquiries for commissioning these.

[ChrisN]

Those figures look superb. 

 

My wife pointed out that if a railway was not built in the 1860s then they could be used for a TV filming.  I am sure some can be used without any difficulty later and some will have to look old.  Fortunately, I will have a parade down Station Road so I could have a crowd, also it is market day so if I ever get my 009 line built going through the market square I can use as many as I like.

 

The Langley Edwardian figures although not in the same league are I think some of Langley's best.  They have at least one lady sitting down, who I am sure is wearing an 1880s dres.

 

I assume you have tried the war gamming sites for figures?  Having said that they tend to do relaxed poses for WW2 but I have found few, if any earlier ones.

[Edwardian]

Andrew's are assuredly the best Edwardian figures on the market. The other figures seem undernourished and pinched or poorly proportioned and clumsy. I have bought all of his so far released - although I haven't used them all for fear of over populating the platforms. I am fortunate in having mine painted by Cat Gibbs;

 

https://en-gb.facebook.com/Cats.Custom.Characters/

 

Pony and trap.jpg

 

The pony and trap are from Dart Castings, the pony again painted by Cat.

 

Although Langley produce some marching Edwardian soldiers, some military and naval figures in "rest" poses would be good to have. As I don't believe in wish lists I have started to make some inquiries for commissioning these.

 

Sometime ago, when the first Edwardians were released (which I purchased with avidity), Andrew Stadden was canvassing suggestions and I did suggest military personnel.  Although Khaki was adopted in 1902, it took time to equip everyone, especially yeomanry and militia units, and officers and senior NCOs would retain smart walking out dress. 

 

I've always wanted to model the yeomanry going on annual camp in the Edwardian period. 

 

Another suggestion was servants, in-door and outdoor, in both working and travelling clothes.

 

Vast numbers of folk were in service and a high proportion wore clothes that were indicative of this.  Even very modest middle class households had at least one servant (house maid) - e.g. the Pooters. 

 

Surely housemaids in a yard or garden or answering callers at the front door or tradesmen at the back would be a great feature of any model in an Edwardian setting?

 

Liveried servants, footmen and coachmen, were still common - witness the film link posted by BG John of this parish (at post #1689) http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107713-castle-aching/page-68  At one point an open carriage passes the camera driven by a liveried coachman, in Rochdale c.1900.

 

Many First-Second composites were used by wealthy passengers and their servants.  We have a number of wealthy passenger figures, including children, but they are expected to travel with no assistance save that afforded by the railway company servants!  In reality, I would expect to see a valet, lady's maid and governess in travelling/street clothes.  I don't doubt some of the smarter "Second Class" looking Staddens could be adapted for use as travelling servants, but more could usefully be offered in this line.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Edwardian

[ChrisN]

Sometime ago, when the first Edwardians were released (which I purchased with avidity), Andrew Stadden was canvassing suggestions and I did suggest military personnel.  Although Khaki was adopted in 1902, it took time to equip everyone, especially yeomanry and militia units, and officers and senior NCOs would retain smart walking out dress. 

 

I've always wanted to model the yeomanry going on annual camp in the Edwardian period. 

 

Another suggestion was servants, in-door and outdoor, in both working and travelling clothes.

 

Vast numbers of folk were in service and a high proportion wore clothes that were indicative of this.  Even very modest middle class households had at least one servant (house maid) - e.g. the Pooters. 

 

Surely housemaids in a yard or garden or answering callers at the front door or tradesmen at the back would be a great feature of any model in an Edwardian setting?

 

Liveried servants, footmen and coachmen, were still common - witness the film link posted by BG John of this parish (at post #1689) http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107713-castle-aching/page-68  At one point an open carriage passes the camera driven by a liveried coachman, in Rochdale c.1900.

 

Many First-Second composites were used by wealthy passengers and their servants.  We have a number of wealthy passenger figures, including children, but they are expected to travel with no assistance save that afforded by the railway company staff!  In reality, I would expect to see a valet, ladies maid and governess in travelling/street clothes.  I don't doubt some of the smarter "Second Class" looking Staddens could be adapted for use as travelling servants, but more could usefully be offered in this line.

 

Hi,

I emailed Andrew yesterday and asked him if he was going to do the 1860s figures sitting down.  He said he intended to but he would need to see how the standing figures sold, and how crinolines fitted into coach seating.  I told him I had asked as I will have some 1860s built coaches and thought it would be fun to fill them with 1860s people, so he knows he has at least one sale.  Having said that there is very little leg room in the coaches I have built so far so it may be that the files will need to come out, either on the seats or the skirts to make them fit.

 

He does take a while to produce figures as they are really good and he has other models to make as well but I would think that he would need to see a return on what he has made to venture further into this area.  I have the Langley servants but they are washing and scrubbing, which is good but no one serving tea or answering the door.  The local Yeomanry would also go well with my Welsh Fusiliers' parade.

 

He has also produced sitting down 2mm figures

Edited November 12, 2016 by ChrisN

[aberdare]

I too thought about buying the latest 1860 set with the free figures but took a little time out to think about it and decided not to, there would just be too many I could not use as good as they are, The only use would be the same as Edwardian suggested in mentioning the opening ceremony of the line - 1876 for me - where that type of dress can be seen.

 

I'll definitely be buying a few of the driver/fireman sets though.

 

Jim

[Jol Wilkinson]

Hi Chris,

 

I've looked at some of the MM sites but nothing suitable came to light. 

 

I have in mind a group of soldiers talking while waiting on a platform, with an officer and sergeant off to one side. The period is 1907 so Khaki or Regimental uniform would be okay. Most of the models I have found tend to be in action.

 

Jol

[ChrisN]

I too thought about buying the latest 1860 set with the free figures but took a little time out to think about it and decided not to, there would just be too many I could not use as good as they are, The only use would be the same as Edwardian suggested in mentioning the opening ceremony of the line - 1876 for me - where that type of dress can be seen.

 

I'll definitely be buying a few of the driver/fireman sets though.

 

Jim

 

Jim,

I know what you mean as a lot may get painted and put somewhere else.  However, there will be 25 figures for £20.00.  I will use at least two from the 'posh' set, and at least four from the 'working class set', then Brunel, well you have too especially as I have Stroudley, and then the two enginemen.  That is 9 figures, so not much more per used figure than others on the market.

[ChrisN]

Hi Chris,

 

I've looked at some of the MM sites but nothing suitable came to light. 

 

I have in mind a group of soldiers talking while waiting on a platform, with an officer and sergeant off to one side. The period is 1907 so Khaki or Regimental uniform would be okay. Most of the models I have found tend to be in action.

 

Jol

 

Jol,

Have you seen W D Models?  It appears that only the French and Americans relaxed though, although others may be of use.

[Edwardian]

Hi Chris,

 

I've looked at some of the MM sites but nothing suitable came to light. 

 

I have in mind a group of soldiers talking while waiting on a platform, with an officer and sergeant off to one side. The period is 1907 so Khaki or Regimental uniform would be okay. Most of the models I have found tend to be in action.

 

Jol

 

These will, I suspect, prove to be the nearest you will get with what is available at the moment.  They represent the Khaki uniform.

 

They are very good sculpts and have the advantage of being 1/76 scale.

 

I have some to use as Territorials en route to their Drill Hall, relaxed poses and no kit.  Although I would intend them to represent the 1930s, there is little difference between the basic WW1 uniform and the Terriers in pre-Battle Dress days.

 

http://www.wdmodels.com/page3.htm#wd4

 

Detail from picture on W D Models' website:

Jol,

Have you seen W D Models?  It appears that only the French and Americans relaxed though, although others may be of use.

 

Ah, Snap!

Edited November 12, 2016 by Edwardian

[Jol Wilkinson]

Thank you gentlemen, those hadn't turned up in my searches.

 

I think that there are some that will fit the bill.

[bertiedog]

The 1860's figures from Stadden look very good indeed, and would be OK for up to the turn of the century as well, if care is taken with colours. The GWR Broad Gauge layout I have, has always lacked proper figures, so a large order going in next week.

They are much better proportioned than most rivals, and from previous use of Stadden, they are better posed and detailed.

....And yes a range of liveried servants and maids would be very nice.

 

Stephen..

[BG John]

The 1860's figures from Stadden look very good indeed, and would be OK for up to the turn of the century as well, if care is taken with colours. The GWR Broad Gauge layout I have, has always lacked proper figures, so a large order going in next week.

They are much better proportioned than most rivals, and from previous use of Stadden, they are better posed and detailed.

....And yes a range of liveried servants and maids would be very nice.

 

Stephen..

I've got some 5&9 figures I was going to use on mine, but they're a bit of a caricature. As it's set in the mid to late 1880s, I suppose some Stadden 1860s figures would be better, mixed with later periods.

[ChrisN]

The 1860's figures from Stadden look very good indeed, and would be OK for up to the turn of the century as well, if care is taken with colours. The GWR Broad Gauge layout I have, has always lacked proper figures, so a large order going in next week.

They are much better proportioned than most rivals, and from previous use of Stadden, they are better posed and detailed.

....And yes a range of liveried servants and maids would be very nice.

 

Stephen..

 

Stephen,

You probably know Andrew Stadden models I am fairly sure from photographs, so that iswhy they can look a bit wooden.  He may be learning from us what we want as he also does military figures who just stand there, not wargamming ones.

 

I understand that he started making figures for railways as he was asked to and I think he has been pleased by the response.so he has made more.  I am sure an email making a suggestion to him would not go amiss.

 

There will come a point where the market is saturated, but as far as I am concerned if I buy another set it will not mean I have too many as I reached that point ages ago.  On top of buying anything vaguely in my period I will convert more modern ones back to the 1890s.  Easier than the 1860s or 1880s.  Hopefully it will mean that not too many figures are repeated.

 

Finally, when you said about care with the colours for 1860 figures in the 90s did you mean faded, or something else?

[Edwardian]

The First Class passengers are the most defined in terms of era.  The less affluent classes, railway workers etc can represent a wider period.  The men are more flexible than the ladies.  When the first sets came out, I worked out how a number of the working men could be adapted to swell the ranks of Monty's for my 1930s project.

 

Most of my projects - by which I mean intended future layouts for which research and stock has been amassed over the "Armchair Years" fall within the 1900-1914 period.  With and without adaptation, I see the Staddens being used again and again to populate towns, villages, platforms and coaches.  The quantities I eventually buy will be limited merely by the limits to the layouts I can actually build.

 

IMHO, it is a range that has already benefited, and will continue to benefit, from expansion. 

 

The maids, gardeners, shopkeepers and shoppers, road-menders, soldiers, sailors, delivery boys, governesses, farm hands, yeoman famers, coal traders, lamp-lighters, footmen, thieves, policemen, postmen, commuting clerks and perambulating nannies.

 

The possibilities are endless.

 

One of my other suggestions to Mr Stadden was uniformed public servants.      

[bertiedog]

By care with colours , Victorian clothes for men did not really vary much from George IV's death till about the Great Exhibition period, but Women's clothing only varied a bit on the size of the skirt, it was the brighter colours that show more on early clothes. Throughout the Victorian period colours became more sober and darker, and upon the death of Albert mourning black prevailed. This became a taste for men to this day, Bright colours vanished from mens clothes, and were toned down for women, By the 1890's black was fashionable even so long after mourning.

Up to the 1860's mens wear was often pale green cloth or light blue. Red was not worn outside the Army, but was used for waistcoats and cape interiors, which persisted with the black clothes after the 1860 period.

What changed people from the Regency look was the Great Exhibition, not Alberts death. People wanted the more modern look, but it stalled with the mourning,

The best references for clothes of the period is Frith's paintings from 1840's onwards (plus many other painters), or long extensive hours at the V&Am which I did for military figures.

The rule of thumb is darker and black as the period went on, with exceptions like the fad for electric blue, when the bright blue dyes were discovered.

Hats are the other indicator of period and old Punch cartoons are a good reference as to what was in fashion  at s particular point in time. Also the engravings in the Illustrated London News

[Andy Hayter]

I have to say that clothing colouring is not my forte but I was under the impression that the invention of aniline based dyes in the 1870s led to a great increase in the use of colour in textiles.  I would therefore have expected rather more than just an electric blue influence, but rather reds (probably towards the maroon rather than pillar box shade), greens (again probably more sombre shades rather than leaf green), yellows etc..

 

If these colours did not end up in clothing, where did they go?  A whole German chemical industry was built up on these dyes.

[ChrisN]

By care with colours , Victorian clothes for men did not really vary much from George IV's death till about the Great Exhibition period, but Women's clothing only varied a bit on the size of the skirt, it was the brighter colours that show more on early clothes. Throughout the Victorian period colours became more sober and darker, and upon the death of Albert mourning black prevailed. This became a taste for men to this day, Bright colours vanished from mens clothes, and were toned down for women, By the 1890's black was fashionable even so long after mourning.

Up to the 1860's mens wear was often pale green cloth or light blue. Red was not worn outside the Army, but was used for waistcoats and cape interiors, which persisted with the black clothes after the 1860 period.

What changed people from the Regency look was the Great Exhibition, not Alberts death. People wanted the more modern look, but it stalled with the mourning,

The best references for clothes of the period is Frith's paintings from 1840's onwards (plus many other painters), or long extensive hours at the V&Am which I did for military figures.

The rule of thumb is darker and black as the period went on, with exceptions like the fad for electric blue, when the bright blue dyes were discovered.

Hats are the other indicator of period and old Punch cartoons are a good reference as to what was in fashion  at s particular point in time. Also the engravings in the Illustrated London News

 

We have had discussions on my thread about clothes.  I have not got that far in my index to find them but my understanding is that vegetable dyes were earlier but the colours changed as the aniline dyes came in.  There are various pictures from the 90s of quite bright colours.  I seem to remember reading or hearing that Victoria was told to come back into public life or risk the whole of the monarchy, so perhaps things changed back when she did.  I think it was that time a lot of the pageantry was invented, nothing like a good show to keep the masses happy.

 

I will look again, or try and find some pictures of clothing of the earlier periods.

[wagonman]

Mauve, one of the earliest aniline dyes, 'invented' by W H Perkins in 1859, was very fashionable in the 1890s.

 

 

Richard