Layout design case study

[colin penfold]

Just a little update to say pending taking occupation of the cellar I have been doing some expensive research. Don't you mean extensive Colin?? Nope, because it's cost me loads of money!!!!

 

I have been looking at the interregional services between York/Newcastle and the South Coast with a view to potential for running some LNER stock and with the help of some excellent RM Webbers I now understand the formations and have worked out what to buy. I have already purchased the buffet car. I'm told the Hornby one is the wrong type, but I've always fancied one, so whoopee. I'm going to go with Mk1s as per prototype but sneak in one of the new Bachmann Thompsons for variety.

 

I have also finally through persistence found an excuse for a B1 loco to run over the DNSR. Not saying I found photographic evidence that it DID happen but numerous Pigeon Specials ran from the North to the South Coast carrying Racing Pigeons. Given that these were quite common I feel justified in running one. They were apparently formed of a BCK in the middle for the owners and two gangwayed full brakes either side, making a five vehicle set. I have a Thompson, Gresley and a MK1 BG, and a Gresley BCK (courtesy of EBay) The latter is not a railroad item but is nowhere near as good a representation of teak as the BG or buffet, so it's going to get VERY heavily weathered to disguise that fact. The B1 has also been obtained via EBay leaving me one BG to get.

 

I have also found documentary evidence (but not photos) to say the following locos worked oil trains over the DNS to Southampton - LMS 8F, Unrebuilt Patriot  and Black 5 so there's three more possibles although to be honest I've never much liked the patriots and I might try to restrict myself to either the 5 or the 8 as they look quite similar.

 

I read before my birthday on Andy's Hawksworth thread that (contrary to what I previously thought) they did operate regular services on the DNS so a suitably heavy hint was dropped (OK I wrote a list!!!) and three beautiful Hornby Blood and Custard Hawksworths are now in my possession.

 

I also got for my birthday the book "Southern rails on Southampton Docks" which has given me some ideas for freight, particularly Grain Hoppers which will add some more variety. More expensively it sparked some further research on the Cunarder boat trains. I have always fancied a Pullman train and that was all the excuse I needed. A happy coincidence that my research revealed a sensible formation that coincided with some available 2003 Hornby super-detailed models on Ebay. Some successful bids and Robert is indeed your father's brother! (Credit card is sitting in the corner gently weeping now!!!) Just need a nice rebuilt bullied for the front now.

 

Anyhow, a lot of this research is online and stored on my computer, but I do keep having little thoughts and ideas. My lovely wife bought me a notebook for Christmas which I have decided will become my jotting book to make sure these little gems don't get forgotten. Might share some of what gets written and how useful it is in a later post. I will leave you with the amusing inscription on the front of said notebook. I think sometimes my wife is trying to tell me something!

 

Edited January 31, 2014 by colin penfold

[2ManySpams]

Rebuilt Bulleid...any particular number take your fancy?

[colin penfold]

Rebuilt Bulleid...any particular number take your fancy?

 

Just PM'd you, but happy to hear suggestions from the floor! For sentimental reasons 34003 Plymouth would be good although I have photographic evidence of 004 on the docks.

[2ManySpams]

Just PM'd you, but happy to hear suggestions from the floor! For sentimental reasons 34003 Plymouth would be good although I have photographic evidence of 004 on the docks.

 

What side of 1960 are you looking at? 

 

Edit: sorry, missed the bit where you siad 57/58.

[2ManySpams]

PS. can the 'floor' confirm my back of head memory that motive power for the Southampton Boat Trains was provided by Nine Elms and Eastleigh? 

[The Stationmaster]

PS. can the 'floor' confirm my back of head memory that motive power for the Southampton Boat Trains was provided by Nine Elms and Eastleigh? 

Definitely Nine Elms  - but I don't know about Eastleigh although it would make sense for So'ton originators without a balancing working in from London.

[colin penfold]

What side of 1960 are you looking at?

 

ideally pre-

 

This will be my first late crest loco, except for the crompton! My time span is 1943-1960

[colin penfold]

Been doing a bit more research and discovered an appropriate bus for the Burghclere section from this video. Newbury and DIstrict fleet number 106 - Guy Arab with wartime utility body.

 

 

I have been thinking about road vehicles too and I understand the BR road lorries from Newbury and Andover served Burghclere in the 1950s. Does anybody know where I can find out the type of vehicle that would have been allocated to either station during that period? I also understand two local hauliers from Kingsclere worked the yard - George Pryer and Tom Chalk. I might have a trip to Kingsclere in April and see what I can track down.

[Mikkel]

What a find, Colin! Some very interesting clips for us DN&SR fans. Thanks a lot for sharing it.

 

I wonder if Kevin Robertson is aware of this.

[Miss Prism]

Lovely footage. Note the absence of pavements.

[-missy-]

Thats the first time I have seen Highclere (and the DNSR) on film! Briliant!

 

Thank you Colin for posting that.

 

Missy

 

EDIT:

 

I have been told that there is some footage on one of those B&R productions DVDs. I was told which one but cannot remember which one now!

Edited March 2, 2014 by -missy-

[colin penfold]

Thats the first time I have seen Highclere (and the DNSR) on film! Briliant!

 

Thank you Colin for posting that.

 

Missy

 

EDIT:

 

I have been told that there is some footage on one of those B&R productions DVDs. I was told which one but cannot remember which one now!

 

It's steam into Wessex Part 1 (volume 112 in the series)

 

Theres a good amount of footage in which the following appear:

 

 

Std 4     Winchester Chesil

22xx 2240   Winchester Chesil

SR Mogul     Winchester Chesil

GW Mogul 6302   Kings Worthy

Std 4     Worthy Down

T9 30729   Sutton Scotney

22xx     Sutton Scotney

Std 4 4-6-0 75005   Lichfield

22xx     Near Winchester Chesil

B4 30096   Winchester Chesil

City City of Truro   Eastleigh      

Southampton Terminus      

Southampton Docks

USA 30074   Southampton Docks

 

Edit to correct lost formatting on list

Edited March 2, 2014 by colin penfold

[colin penfold]

Just finished reading and note taking my way through the new Kevin Robertson book The Didcot Newbury and Southampton Railway - A New History.

 

Was it worth it? Are Frogs Waterproof? Do bears s%%t in the woods? Is the Pope Catholic??

 

Oh Yeah.

 

So, what did I get?

 

137 photographs added into my reference spreadsheet including:

 

A Hall (!) on the Bamford Bridge Oil train

Standard 3mt 2-6-2 tanks (and you know me, I toddled off to the Bure Valley Model Shop and got a weathered Bachmann one for £80 - bargain!!)

New freight traffic - coke hoppers and sugar beet

Large ballast hoppers

22xx with BR smokebox door numbers but GWR on the tender

Blood and Custard Hawksworths

Collett goods 2289 with ROD Tender (Phew! I bought one thinking they were common and hadn't found any evidence of one ever being on the DNS till now)

Method of working the lime works at Burghclere

Method of working with tail traffic on passenger trains

A photo of Shawford Viaduct showing the signal on it which I thought was a modern whimsy

Shot of the cut back platform edges at Burghclere (done to enable larger locos in wartime)

Rebuilt Bullied Pacific on freight

A bubble car DMU with tail traffic in the form of a 6 wheel milk tank

 

I established that the track layout as I want to represent it (with the Wartime box in but before the lime sidings were taken out) dates my planned model of Burghclere between 1943 and 1946

 

I also made copious notes in the serious notebook on passenger numbers, headcodes, route availability, locomotive workings (including a regular 1960s bullied pacific freight turn southbound as a balancing working from Banbury to a Northbound interregional) and last but not least road vehicles.

 

The author also referred to a book on Newbury and District buses which I got from the library. Cross Referencing that with the "Next Stop Burghclere" video (above) I now know Burghclere was served by Route 31 (Shaw-Newbury-Whitway) and fleet number 106 which was in the video is a Guy Arab with wartime utility body as produced by EFE. I picked one up in Southdown livery from Ebay and it will be getting a repaint in due course.

 

So, all in all a very productive piece of research.

 

 

 

[Cheshire001]

I have a copy of "'Trax 3' Signalling & Lever Frames" by Jeff Geary.   Quite an interesting book, giving details of how to signal a layout, work out the interlocking and implement it on a lever frame.   There is a section on using the output to connect the correct controller to the track.  

 

"So what?", you say.   

 

Well, the example used to illustrate much of this is Whitchurch on the DNS.   So we get a trackplan, signalling diagram and how to implement it.   Not of direct help modelling Burghclere, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

 

[Edit.   The Whitchurch track plan in Trax appears much simplified and somehow mirrored/reversed compared to the plan in the OPC book.   The lever numbers for the frame they derive are different to that give in OPC book and by SRS.   While the book is a very interesting exercise, anyone hoping to make an accurate re-creation of Whitchurch should approach it with caution.] 

 

Also included are a computer CD with a couple of programs to assist with the interlocking design and a layout design program that "helps you design a layout, plan and test electrical connections, print templates...design interlocked lever frames...".

 

Looks very interesting, but I must confess to not having studied it in detail yet - it's not the sort of material you just flick through!

 

Also, see this page on the Signalling Record Society website: http://www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwa/T3011.htm.   A couple of signalling diagrams with the advantage you can step through to the 'next' and 'previous' stations on the line.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Cheshire001

[colin penfold]

Thanks for this Cheshire. I have the signal box diagrams in the OPC book on the line. The Trax book sounds interesting - I do plan to use a mechanical frame connected to wire in tube for Burghclere. Don't know if I will go as far as interlocking it.

[colin penfold]

Massive step forward achieved this morning.

 

Completed the bookcase which divides the part of the old kitchen that now forms the steps down to the cellar, from the part that is going to be our new study. Over to the lovely wife for stain and varnish now. By the way, the bookcase has a secret door to a concealed cupboard - anybody see it??

 

 

 

Feels much, much closer to the end of DIY and the beginning of some railway modelling. That will start of course with.......Carpentry!

[Pete 75C]

Nice work Colin!

[colin penfold]

On Monday I went for a nice walk in the rain to explore a section of the DNS track bed

 

I went by train via Newbury and found a photo in a book of a BRS lorry. Anyone knows anything about BRS lorries please help identify it for me

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/85265-identity-of-brs-lorry-from-1954/

 

Onward from Newbury by bus to Kingsclere and from there walked to Highclere via the Brenda Parker Way, a very pleasant walk taking in a stretch of track bed but also passing Highclere Station  (which is actually in Burghclere, unlike Burghclere station - which isn't)

 

 

 

 

[colin penfold]

I have discovered some more suitable wagons for the DNS

 

buffers have a conflat with a southampton-based container and a winchester based 4 plank coal wagon

Wessex wagons have a compton based coal merchant and a winchester one too.

 

These supplement the selections from robbies rolling stock and mathieson models mentioned elsewhere

 

on another subject I have ordered newbury and district transfers for the guy arab bus mentioned earlier. Chris (decalman) has been most helpful and I look forward to seeing the results

Edited May 13, 2014 by colin penfold

[colin penfold]

So, after quite a break here I am beginning the "three dimensional" stage of planning. I have a fully habitable man cave and spent my first proper railway modelling weekend down there

 

There comes a time (in my opinion) where planning on paper and computer screens must give way to three dimensional experimentation. I therefore plan to carry out three experiments to confirm the viability of my paper plans

 

1 testing the concept of the spiral which will allow two levels of model railway

2 testing the two level plan for practicalities like reaching in to couple/uncouple

3 testing the concept of my fiddle yard

 

This weekend I held the Aylsham trials where various model locomotives tried to haul trains up 3" in the space of a 360 degree curve of 2nd radius setrack, and 3rd radius setrack.

 

 

I have managed to prove a few things, and play trains at the same time. Firstly I can fit 3rd radius into the space I have available meaning the gradients will be more gentle. Secondly, most of my locos can haul the kind of loads I need them to up the spiral. Thirdly the Hornby M7 (as mentioned in other threads) is the least powerful model tested. I took some highly entertaining (!) Video of the trials but sadly I can't upload them so you are spared.

 

Ihave concluded that it is still a good idea to make provision for DCC concepts powerbase. I am going to get mild steel sheets to support the spiral rather than plywood, keeping the baseboard thickness down and hopefully costs with it. I can then fit locos that need the help with the DCC concepts magnets.

 

Whilst I try to source the steel, my next step will be to mock up the bi-level baseboards and test out the reach issues.

 

Watch this space.....

Edited October 19, 2014 by colin penfold

[Pete 75C]

Looks really promising Colin. I'm impressed by the self-discipline that allows you to plan properly. Sadly, rushing in feet or head-first has often been my downfall!

[colin penfold]

I've had my share of failed projects Pete. I'm determined that this one will work, be fulfilling and be future proofed against a house move. I bet you I still miss something or have to alter something along the way but hopefully nothing major.

[colin penfold]

Well, a slight departure from planning today, but for a reason.

 

I needed to make myself a coupling/uncoupling tool to try out some shunting with three links when I test the bi-level baseboards. In view of a discussion on Robin Sweets excellent Nod To Brent, I though sharing how I did it might be useful

 

I bought a pen torch from amazon for the princely sum  of £2.25 inc P&P

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B004KT4OH2/ref=pe_385721_37986871_TE_item

 

 

Tools required, 2 pairs pliers, suitable tape, pen torch and paper clip

 

 

First straighten the paper clip and put a 90 degree bend in it

 

 

Then using two pairs of pliers I bent a curved section to mimic the curve of the surface of the torch, followed by another bend to bring the clip parallel to itself

 

 

This enabled the clip to sit easily on the torch ready to tape

 

 

The tape goes over one piece and under the other, thus preventing the clip from slipping out from the tape

 

 

Then wrap the tape securely around the whole clip. The clip now cant revolve under the tape or slip out

 

 

Then put a small hook on the end (some experimentation will be needed to get something you are happy with for your type of coupling. My first attempt is about 5mm long and may be marginally too long from initial tests)

 

 

You then need to make sure the hook is positioned so that it's in the beam of the torch

 

 

At this point Robert is indeed your father's brother.

 

 

I took it down to the man cave, coupled up a rake of presflos and had a play to test the behaviour of three link couplings on my minimum radius curve, and on the spiral gradient. Reckon I might get away with it  Still, I will do a bit more investigation before making an investment on wholesale stock conversions.

Edited October 25, 2014 by colin penfold

[gwrrob]

A nice job Colin and a cheap project to boot.

[colin penfold]

Quick update with what ive been up to.

 

Firstly, I have made a foamboard template for the fabrication of some steel plates to support the spiral. Using steel means I can use magnets where necessary from DCC systems to helo locos that cant pull what I need them to. A friend has some contacts he thinks will be able to supply my needs.

 

 

I have also set up temporary baseboards at my planned upper and lower levels and performed some leisurely shunting to check they are comfortable.

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2014 by colin penfold