Cambrian and GWR 0 Gauge layout -Revised Plans

[Simond]

Don,

 

9’ wall-to-wall is tight, as you say.  Whilst I agree with your comments about access (let’s hope it’s more “do you want a cuppa” than about accidents) I think your short straight across the gap will make the curves at that end even tighter, and your loop will make it yet worse.  I fear you might be down to 3’ or,less, and a 4-4-0 will struggle with that, for sure.
 

I don’t want to rain on your parade, but perhaps download Templot and see if you can draw the bones of it.  There is a learning curve, but it will tell you the tightest radii, and you can adjust what you’ve drawn to optimise things.  Failing that, decide on a minimum radius and make a circular template out of plasticard or whatever, and draw round that.

 

can you make your cassettes run east-west?  This will help a bit.  

The track on your lift-out can be built on a curve, even if the bridge itself is straight & parallel-sided

 

hth

Simon

[Donw]

15 minutes ago, Simond said:

Don,

 

9’ wall-to-wall is tight, as you say.  Whilst I agree with your comments about access (let’s hope it’s more “do you want a cuppa” than about accidents) I think your short straight across the gap will make the curves at that end even tighter, and your loop will make it yet worse.  I fear you might be down to 3’ or,less, and a 4-4-0 will struggle with that, for sure.
 

I don’t want to rain on your parade, but perhaps download Templot and see if you can draw the bones of it.  There is a learning curve, but it will tell you the tightest radii, and you can adjust what you’ve drawn to optimise things.  Failing that, decide on a minimum radius and make a circular template out of plasticard or whatever, and draw round that.

 

can you make your cassettes run east-west?  This will help a bit.  

The track on your lift-out can be built on a curve, even if the bridge itself is straight & parallel-sided

 

hth

Simon

 

That bit may well end up being a tighter curve than I have drawn. The only bit that needs to be straight is the cassettes . I did consider having the cassettes against the wall but that would make it difficult for sigle handed operation trying to reach across rather than than keep lifting the bridge section. I am hoping to keep the curves above 40inch radius. I wanted the scenic section to be on a curve rather than have the track parallel to the wall I think that will look better

 

Don

[Donw]

1 hour ago, Mikkel said:

I am not much use at trackplans, but I like the combination of cassettes and a continuous run. I can see how that can solve some space constraints or awkward angles.

 

I was looking for a way to get a decent run rather than having the trains just shuttle back an forth between a station and a fiddleyard. I will be able to watch the train do a lap or two round the cuircuit. Mind you I could go in with a cup of tea and just watch one circling for ten minutes perhaps while shunting the station area.

 

Don

[Northroader]

Try and get some paper templates off Peco for their points, (I suppose they still do them?) particularly their setrak range, as these seem to be designed with oval layouts in mind. (The radius on the diverging route continues past the crossing instead of becoming straight) I got some setrak points but found you couldn’t do a crossover on straight tracks because of this, but on your plan they should work much better. Then it’s a question of what you can get to go through the curves. As you’re not a Pacific man you shouldn’t get frustrated, although I find six wheeled coaches are very nice, but demanding little sods. Then again having an oval means much less propelling moves, one of my most trafficked lines was a tight oval, as you say, it’s nice just to sit down and let it run and enjoy the movement.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Northroader

[Donw]

1 hour ago, Northroader said:

Try and get some paper templates off Peco for their points, (I suppose they still do them?) particularly their setrak range, as these seem to be designed with oval layouts in mind. (The radius on the diverging route continues past the crossing instead of becoming straight) I got some setrak points but found you couldn’t do a crossover on straight tracks because of this, but on your plan they should work much better. Then it’s a question of what you can get to go through the curves. As you’re not a Pacific man you shouldn’t get frustrated, although I find six wheeled coaches are very nice, but demanding little sods. Then again having an oval means much less propelling moves, one of my most trafficked lines was a tight oval, as you say, it’s nice just to sit down and let it run and enjoy the movement.

 

Yes you have to watch crossovers basically the settrack ones  create an S curve. Having it straight from the crossing nose reduces the problem as does widening the spacing between tracks.  It is alway best to have crossovers gentler than your minimum radius.

I can use templot or simply draw them myself for what ever turnout I need. I can use the prototype dimensions for the old fashioned straight switches. I have drawn up a Tandem in templot for the station throat. I took a right hand turnout  ussing a 9ft switch and a 1:5 curviform crossing  and curved it so the diverging road was down to 48ins then asked templot to make it a tandem with the added route on the LH side this came out almost straight so should be fine for me. I hope the six wheelers will be fine and I dont have to resort to tricks. 

The propelling move that will give some concern would be shunting wagons from the sidings out onto the main approach. Keeping the rakes short should reduce the problem. It would be better to use the GWR Dock tank (1365) or the Cambrian MW 0-4-0T as a short loco puts less sideways twist on the wagons using a long 0-6-0 which creates a larger offset for the buffers may be more trouble.

Of course it may prove to be too tight and the axe comes down on the whole lot if I get frustrated.

 

Don

[F-UnitMad]

Awhile back now I did a bit of experimenting with UK stock on the 36" radius curves of my US O layout.

Short stuff gets round ok, even my Dapol & Minerva Pannier Tanks.

Much depends on the buffers and couplers. As can be seen in my photos below, with a 'long' 3 links on a Lima Toad, the buffers of that & the loco don't touch, but with a Dapol tanker the coupling is stretched & buffers compressed.

As for a Class 37 and short stock - just forget it!!! 

 

 

[Donw]

4 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

Awhile back now I did a bit of experimenting with UK stock on the 36" radius curves of my US O layout.

Short stuff gets round ok, even my Dapol & Minerva Pannier Tanks.

Much depends on the buffers and couplers. As can be seen in my photos below, with a 'long' 3 links on a Lima Toad, the buffers of that & the loco don't touch, but with a Dapol tanker the coupling is stretched & buffers compressed.

As for a Class 37 and short stock - just forget it!!! 

 

 

 

A good graphical demonstration of the problem. I find working buffers helps a lot. My Bulldog has the bogie on a plain pivot with no sideplay which I think helps keeping the buffer beam in some sort of range with the  track. I am expecting that 0-6-0s and 2-4-0s will be more suitable but will try to avoid propelling moves with them and use short tanks instead. A 45xx would be more trouble than a pannier I feel.

 

Don

.

[Andrew P]

Hi Don, just caught up, and I like the indoor plan, I'm now following.

[Donw]

2 hours ago, Andrew P said:

Hi Don, just caught up, and I like the indoor plan, I'm now following.

 

Thanks for your interest Andy. Do not expect your rate of progress so much else to do.

 

Don

[Donw]

I have produced a Templot print for a Tandem turnout for the station throat. This has now be fixed to a piece of board as my back doesn't feel up to leaning over the baseboard so I can make it at a better angle. I am now sorting out ply timbers these are some that were for a previous bit of work and have been stained with a wood stain.

 

 

Also careful choice of stock can be a great help with tight curves and short platforms. This is a D15 Brake third it is only 285mm over the buffers. I also have an E27 Clerestory composite which is 340mm over buffers. A tender loco and two coaches in 1m.

 

 

The keen eyed will spot the slightly simplified lining out. However I suspect you wouldn't see more than that at a reasonable distance.

 

Don

 

 

[Donw]

Well I have been notably quiet on here. The main issue is that although my mobility has improved since the covid jab I am not back to full movement and a suffering a lot of aches and pains. Worse too Marion trying to do more to compensate is not doing her much good. We have managed to clear up a lot of building rubbish and dispose of bricks etc. surplus to requirements. We have also thought hard about the position. For an old crock and his wife 3/4 of an acre with some 800ft of hedging and steep slopes doesn't make a lot of sense. So with a lot of regret we have put the place up for sale.  At least it was a pleasant surprise that the suggested asking price was considerably more than our expectations.

A week after putting it on sale we have accepted a good offer and put in an offer on a place in the Isle of Wight. So it is fingers crossed time now.

This one has a loft room a bit restricted on height but I am only a shortie.. Being us there are some changes to the place we will make. So planning will come in time. I do still have friends on the Island, I understand the group still meet in Peter's shed ith an 0 gauge model of Selby. The garden railway group are still meeting so I can get my live steamers out. Hopefully there will be room aloft to capture something of Dolgelley. Downsizing also means there may be a bit of extra cash too. I aso have provisional planning consent for a modest garden line and just maybe with a lot smaller garden there may actually be time for modelling. 

Thnks for all your support so far.

 

Don

 

 

[Andrew P]

27 minutes ago, Donw said:

Well I have been notably quiet on here. The main issue is that although my mobility has improved since the covid jab I am not back to full movement and a suffering a lot of aches and pains. Worse too Marion trying to do more to compensate is not doing her much good. We have managed to clear up a lot of building rubbish and dispose of bricks etc. surplus to requirements. We have also thought hard about the position. For an old crock and his wife 3/4 of an acre with some 800ft of hedging and steep slopes doesn't make a lot of sense. So with a lot of regret we have put the place up for sale.  At least it was a pleasant surprise that the suggested asking price was considerably more than our expectations.

A week after putting it on sale we have accepted a good offer and put in an offer on a place in the Isle of Wight. So it is fingers crossed time now.

This one has a loft room a bit restricted on height but I am only a shortie.. Being us there are some changes to the place we will make. So planning will come in time. I do still have friends on the Island, I understand the group still meet in Peter's shed ith an 0 gauge model of Selby. The garden railway group are still meeting so I can get my live steamers out. Hopefully there will be room aloft to capture something of Dolgelley. Downsizing also means there may be a bit of extra cash too. I aso have provisional planning consent for a modest garden line and just maybe with a lot smaller garden there may actually be time for modelling. 

Thnks for all your support so far.

 

Don

 

 

Both sorry and pleased to read your putting your health first for both of you. You'll also be more Local for some proper Amp Sher Shows, Haha

Take care and don't over do the moving bit.

[The Stationmaster]

14 hours ago, Andrew P said:

Both sorry and pleased to read your putting your health first for both of you. You'll also be more Local for some proper Amp Sher Shows, Haha

Take care and don't over do the moving bit.

Don,  I hope that things go well with the move to the island and I can sympathise all too closely with your views about the attention needed by those hedges you've got shot of.   And I agree completely with Andy's comments and hope you can afford the ferry/'bus fare to get you close enough to his front door to scrounge a lift to some of the shows Andy is now able to attend in 'ampshire as some of us go those from the opposite direction: it wpild be great to se you again.  (And we need someone else along to take a turn if we are going to have more than two or three rounds of tea  )

[ChrisN]

Sorry things have not worked out as you wanted.  I hope the move goes well and is not too stressful.

[Donw]

When we lived in the Isle before I did go to the 16mm Garden show at Peterborough as I was part of the help and advice team I was doing a presentation of running a basic live steam loco.  I drove to Sandown and parked  train to Ryde Pier Fast cat to Portsmouth up the stairs onto the platform Train to London, tube across to Kings Cross then train to Peterborough.  I then had to reverse the journey back home.

Rather extreme but better than taking a vehicle over unless there is a group of you. When we wanted to go to the ALSRM do there was a group of us together going to Reading. but went via ferry and train. 

Mind you I will pepbably only do a few shows . Perhaps I might get to exhibit a layout at the Newport Show sometime.

 

Thanks to you all for the kind comments.

 

Don

 

 

[Donw]

Well the place in somerset has been sold and we are now in the motorhome on the Isle of Wight. The first place turned out to have problems we have had an offer accepted on another but the vendors are waiting for probate to be granted on the one they want. All the legal stuff has been done up to exchange of contracts just waiting for the probate.

 

If this goes through I had the choice of a 15ftx 10ft room but with large windows in two walls and a built in cupboard and door in the third, I felt it would make building a nice scenic layout difficult so the current plan is to use the garage.  I will use a smaller room indoors for a modelling desk and probably a short test track.  Fingers crossed it will go through soon.

 

Don

[Mikkel]

Good luck Don, sounds like it's close. If it goes through, will there be much renovation to do? (i.e. will there be an opportunity to get into the modelling quickly?).

[Andrew P]

Good Luck Don, I'll give you a wave when I go to the Club in the Old Fort on the top of Portsdown Hill.

 

Insulate the Garage well and it will be fine. I have 2 inch Polystyrene on the floor and 18mm T & G Chipboard on top, then covered in a lino remnant. Warm to the feet and no damp can come through.

 

All the best.

Andy.

[Donw]

Thanks for the tips Andy, I will have to work out the best way to make it snug. If I had gone for the room inside I would have had to allow access to clean the windows which would have been a   pain . There just wasn't a good length of unimpeded wall for the station. I like the Tonleigh track plan.

 

Don

[The Stationmaster]

5 hours ago, Andrew P said:

Good Luck Don, I'll give you a wave when I go to the Club in the Old Fort on the top of Portsdown Hill.

 

Insulate the Garage well and it will be fine. I have 2 inch Polystyrene on the floor and 18mm T & G Chipboard on top, then covered in a lino remnant. Warm to the feet and no damp can come through.

 

All the best.

Andy.

Yes, definitely insulate the floor Don as it makes a major difference.  Even tho' my garage has 4" of expanded polystyrene underneath 4" of final concrete floor the railway room has another 2" of polystyrene on top of the concrete topped by waterproof chipboard -  make sure that it is waterproof chipboard.  

 

The other thing to watch is the possibility of rising damp if the concrete floor was not laid on polythene sheet - which might be the case with a detached garage

[lmsforever]

On 01/03/2022 at 14:18, The Stationmaster said:

Don,  I hope that things go well with the move to the island and I can sympathise all too closely with your views about the attention needed by those hedges you've got shot of.   And I agree completely with Andy's comments and hope you can afford the ferry/'bus fare to get you close enough to his front door to scrounge a lift to some of the shows Andy is now able to attend in 'ampshire as some of us go those from the opposite direction: it wpild be great to se you again.  (And we need someone else along to take a turn if we are going to have more than two or three rounds of tea  )

Think that you get special fares when you a resident of the IOW lovely place to live going for a  week next March  I like going abroad at least once a year!

[Donw]

I will probably lay a sheet of DPM down then some tanalised bearers for the floor with insulation between them. then either chipboard or sterling osb for the floor. 

 

 When I lived here before the 0 gauge group met just up the road from us. We went mob handed by train to the ALSRM show at Reading. However there will br things that have to be done first. Dog proofing the boundary will be the first priority, move the gas boiler and re-organise the kitchen and add a conservatory.  We will try to get people in to do much of the work. Not really up to doing it all ourselves now.

 

I may put priority on getting some track down for the live steam trains before the winter if possible. Mike who lives not far away has a great garden railway  which I have visted in the past it would nice to return the pleasure.

The reason for moving was to reduce the amount of work the house and garden needed. Which should in time allow more modelling time. There may be a little more money to spend on trains too. 

 

Don

 

 

[Donw]

Well we are into the new place but have found there is a lot more needed doing than we realised.  I wont go into details apart from the fact the garage roof.  We found the joist supprting the garage roof were rotten as as the roof was asbestos we removed the whole lot. I fixed 4x2s along each side of the garage to support new 6x2 joists with OSB boards and then an EDPM the same as I have done elsewhere. So I do have a decent roof now and may add insulation and a ceiling later. 

With a lot to be done I will delay doing more for now. Plans are to get the lightweight portable layout  done see thread below. This can be set up in the indoor room I have been allocated I just need to to clear it somewhat as well as all the train stuff there is boxes of tiles, A toilet and other diy stuff packed in there. The second project is the get the garden layout under way. There will probably be be some soil removed elsewhere for paving etc which can be used to create a raised level area for the trains.

 

So perhaps net year I will be turning to the garage.

 

Best wishes to anyone reading this for the new year.

 

Don