2014 Hornby Announcements

[papagolfjuliet]

I've tried to keep up with this thread, having read the bits that interest me in detail and scanned the rest quickly, but it occurs to me I haven't noticed much reaction to the new Bagnall industrial diesel (R3283), unless I've missed it!

 

The second industrial diesel in 2 years; I've no idea how accurate it might be (it looks as though it sits on the 0-4-0 mechanism used in the past for the Class 06 diesel shunter), but even if not particularly accurate it looks as though it could be useful for freelancers, or the body could even provide the basis for a narrow gauge 'bash'.

 

It's a very, very loose representation of this prototype: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/foxfield/leys.htm

[Ian J.]

A few, somewhat opinionated, random thoughts re pricing:

 

Firstly, I would prefer to buy one model at £200 that was really good, than two at £100 each that were mediocre. If I can only afford £100 per week/month/year, then I'll save up rather than have something I consider below par.

 

Secondly, I don't think Hornby's main focus is the 'modeller' market, but something more general. A shame, but not surprising.

 

Thirdly, if Hornby (or any manufacturer) wants to keep prices down, but we still want to have fine detail, then they could simply supply the models as 'RTA' rather than 'RTR' (RTA = Ready to Assemble, RTR = Ready to Run). I'd be quite happy to fit the details myself, as I'm sure some others here would be also. What I'd like the manufacturer to do is get a decent finish to the paint job which I can't do. For those who want high detail RTR without doing any work at all themselves, there would potentially be two options: either get their LMS or someone else to do the fitting work; or the manufacturer can provide a true high detail RTR at a higher price if there is genuine demand for it.

 

For what it's worth though, I don't think RTA is something Hornby would consider as it's not their natural market space. Neither is it Bachmann's, but maybe Heljan, Dapol, DJM and Rapido could look at it as a way of keeping costs down but giving us the models we want, cheaper and with the detail (as long as the basic shape is right, of course!)

 

Food for thoughts...

 

Edit: poor grammar...

[Purley Oaks]

I think this year's models are impressive; will purchase the 2HAL for sure. Saw a lot of them as a kid and have waited years for r-t-r emus. Both the HAL and BIL would be good with lighting

 

Well, it is fairly prototypical - most of the lightbulbs (despite being three-pronged!) in BIL's, SUB's and EPBs had been nicked or smashed by the end of each working day.......especially Saturdays. 

The lights were a pretty dim yellow if I recall, but so was most of the country...

Mal

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...Logically, there should be two very distinct ranges: a basic range at low cost (but with simplified finish, no added details beyond what is moulded on, minimal undecorated or no interiors, plastic or non fine scale wheels); and a premium range (with complicated and complete finishes, added brass & wire/white metal details, fully illuminated and detailed interior and fine profile metal wheels). For the first you pay £15 the second £45 (or whatever the price may be, but with a very clear difference between the two ranges)...

This approach would not only clearly define two distinct ranges, but would - perhaps - provide a definitive answer to whether or not it is a majority or a minority of modellers that are happy to pay the prices that very high quality and detailed, accurate, models command.

With my 'marketing experience' hat on I tried this on Mr Kohler not long after the Railroad branding was first introduced by Hornby. I got the distinct impression that the set up was not intended to be as clean cut as that. Hornby want the 'Golden Glow' from the premium models to work its magic on the appeal of the Railroad range. Whether or no I believe that to be the most effective strategy, that appears to be what Hornby have pursued since.

 

...Another little thing, electrification warning flashes - where are they on late crest steam models - non existent in most cases...

Excellent decision which some of us have lobbied in favour of; because this is an easy detail to add. An aspect to consider is that the addition of these plates was often very uneven: all of date(s) of application,  quantity, and positioning could be very variable within a single class. This is prime customisation territory. The owner makes the model a portrait of good old 12345 on the 17th June 1962, approx 15.30 hours.

 

...Some nice new locos for the Eastern region fans, but it comes down to price...........WOT no railroad version, of the J15, D16 and K1 ??...

Could it be that the commercial intelligence suggests that the target purchasers are equipped with the green? The premium teak finish coaches have never been Railroaded, and they sell.

[Dunsignalling]

* North East Region, rather than pregrouping North East Railway Co. is the poor relation in that massive transition market that the model companies aim for

 

* and thats the desire to see NER machines made by the modelling and the enthusiast fraternity. People want a LNE/BR Q6, not a NER T2...

 

* Bachmann are the more likely ones to make those frieght leviathans and workhorses like a Q6, the J21, desired by many, could be either one given its characteristics. Hornby like the quaint mixed traffic engine, and I think in future this will count as much as the Big Green and named legacy. 

 

The J21 sits right along side the afforementioned J15... but to be equal, I have to wait another year. From my prespective and for their order book - Hornby might have been wise to get that the other way round.

I find it a bit odd that you don't mention the K.1, given that around half of them were allocated to 50 / 51 / 52 area sheds in 1959.

 

Just rejoice in that and keep pushing for the true ex-N.E.R locos in the next poll; that's how I'm treating the 700 in relation to everything else I would like.

 

With only one all-new loco interesting me this year, I'll be able to run to more than one. If they all arrive within the year, the GE Section boys will need about £350 just to get one of each of the new models, never mind multiples and any furher B.1s, O.1s and B.17s' they might want.

 

I actually think this heavy concentration in one area is a double edged sword for Hornby. On the one hand it satisfies those who are interested in it but on the other, it must reduce multiple sales unless they keep the models in the catalogue for longer than seems to be the current trend.

 

The South Western Section seems to be Hornby's favoured bit of the Southern Region. Whilst there haven't been as many headline introductions as for the GE Section, we haven't done badly over the years. However, I like to have more than one of most types (my King Arthurs all exhibit distinct variations) and I'd far rather see one new loco every year than a glut of three followed by a number of lean years. 

 

John

[chris p bacon]

My first ever train set was the Triang/Hornby night mail: working mail coach, sleeper coach, and Mk2 brake with lights. I used to play with it with the room lights off. Great fun.

Same here !

 

I've still got it all too.....even the mail bags that were picked up and ejected..Oh dear that was 40+ years ago...

 

For me the Claud will do nicely as they were visitors on the Ox-Cam line, simple bit of renumbering all thats required.

[Dunsignalling]

A few, somewhat opinionated, random thoughts re pricing:

 

Firstly, I would prefer to buy one model at £200 that was really good, than two at £100 each that were mediocre. If I can only afford £100 per week/month/year, then I'll save up rather than have something I consider below par.

 

Secondly, I don't think Hornby's main focus is the 'modeller' market, but something more general. A shame, but not surprising.

 

Thirdly, if Hornby (or any manufacturer) wants to keep prices down, but we still want to have fine detail, then they could simply supply the models as 'RTA' rather than 'RTR' (RTA = Ready to Assemble, RTR = Ready to Run). I'd be quite happy to fit the details myself, as I'm sure some others here would be also. What I'd like the manufacturer to do is get a decent finish to the paint job which I can't do. For those who want high detail RTR without doing any work at all themselves, there would potentially be two options: either get their LMS or someone else to do the fitting work; or the manufacturer can provide a true high detail RTR at a higher price if there is genuine demand for it.

 

For what it's worth though, I don't think RTA is something Hornby would consider as it's not their natural market space. Neither is it Bachmann's, but maybe Heljan, Dapol, DJM and Rapido could look at it as a way of keeping costs down but giving us the models we want, cheaper and with the detail (as long as the basic shape is right, of course!)

 

Food for thoughts...

 

Edit: poor grammar...

Hornby try to cover both the 'general' and 'enthusiast' segments with varying degrees of success. Bachmann place more emphasis on the latter, which tends to enhance their reputation among RMweb participants. 

 

I think that at least some degree of RTA would be good for the 'general' market too; dads could leave off the fiddly stuff until junior is old enough and careful enough not to knock it off.

 

Having everything fitted isn't always desirable anyway. Heljan's practice of fitting all the bits on both ends of their locos is an absolute pain in the neck unless you don't need/want to fit any form of automatic coupling.

 

John

[Dunsignalling]

My main concern about Manston is not the price but that it is the second limited run of this locomotive. The prototype is likely to last for another 50 years but Hornby have stopped themselves from producing more than 500 with the late crest and a further 500 with the early crest by marketing them as a limited run. The early crest version is only suitable for people modelling in early BR days probably around the Dover area and there is nothing special about this engine. If I was modelling this area at this period I would simply by another Hornby Bulleid Light Pacific at the normal price. If it was being produced in its preserved state I would have bitten the bullet and bought it at the inflated price because it is running on the Swanage Railway that I am modelling. It would also have been a good investment as it is a limited run of 500 and more than 500 people are likely to want one during the life of the prototype. I also expect that the prices will rise further in future and £157.50 will seem like a bargain in future.

Maybe that's why they are putting a red nameplate on it.............

 

Manston was actually a Western Region engine when the tender was cut down in early 1963 (very late) and there is a further possibility to offer a "production" model of it with blue plates and the high-sided tender with late crest, in which form it arrived on the South Western Section.

 

John

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...the GE Section boys will need about £350 just to get one of each of the new models, never mind multiples and any furher B.1s, O.1s and B.17s' they might want.

 

I actually think this heavy concentration in one area is a double edged sword for Hornby...

Vastly larger area than the GE section though, the models are applicable to most of the LNER Southern area and BR(ER) in the steam era, including the ECML, and includes NER and ScR for the B1, K1, L1.

[Dunsignalling]

If you have someone who offers you full research facilities on the real thing, plus possibly access to drawings and maybe even photos. plus they undertake to buy 1,000 of the whatever would you look that sort of gift horse in the mouth especially when that 1,000 is probably going to cover your basic tooling costs?

True, but I still don't think we should talk down the influence of the enthusiast community.

 

If the "dads-and-their-lads" segment were completely dominant in Hornby's thinking, there wouldn't be much made that can't be seen in preservation.

 

John

[jonathan452]

A few, somewhat opinionated, random thoughts re pricing:

 

Firstly, I would prefer to buy one model at £200 that was really good, than two at £100 each that were mediocre. If I can only afford £100 per week/month/year, then I'll save up rather than have something I consider below par.

 

Secondly, I don't think Hornby's main focus is the 'modeller' market, but something more general. A shame, but not surprising.

 

Thirdly, if Hornby (or any manufacturer) wants to keep prices down, but we still want to have fine detail, then they could simply supply the models as 'RTA' rather than 'RTR' (RTA = Ready to Assemble, RTR = Ready to Run). I'd be quite happy to fit the details myself, as I'm sure some others here would be also. What I'd like the manufacturer to do is get a decent finish to the paint job which I can't do. For those who want high detail RTR without doing any work at all themselves, there would potentially be two options: either get their LMS or someone else to do the fitting work; or the manufacturer can provide a true high detail RTR at a higher price if there is genuine demand for it.

 

For what it's worth though, I don't think RTA is something Hornby would consider as it's not their natural market space. Neither is it Bachmann's, but maybe Heljan, Dapol, DJM and Rapido could look at it as a way of keeping costs down but giving us the models we want, cheaper and with the detail (as long as the basic shape is right, of course!)

 

Food for thoughts...

 

Edit: poor grammar...

Indeed a possibility.

 

But then everybody 'moaned' about fitting the detail parts on-to the VI Trains Class 47.

[coachmann]

Hornby try to cover both the 'general' and 'enthusiast' segments with varying degrees of success. Bachmann place more emphasis on the latter, which tends to enhance their reputation among RMweb participants. 

RMweb membership comes over as overwhelmingly 'general' and even Hornby-dependant especially going off remarks by many of the newer members. That aside, I still think RMweb is an excellent weather vane on buyers feelings from all camps and it does look as if Hornby has taken on board the ill-feeling towards the general adoption of moulded smokebox darts and handrails. Re the J15 0-6-0, in my experience they make for very cute and attractive models. For this reason I am confident they will also sell to people who dont even model the GE area. I truly hope so because this will give Hornby the confidence to produce more 'ordinarry-Joe' engines.

[84A]

1- Market research

2- Previous wish lists

3- Not everyone buys secondhand

4- Airfix produced equal numbers of GO's, TSO's, and Brakes, and only in one livery. These were Mk2d's and although were good models for their age, that age as 1977.

5- The Lima Aircon is a Mk2f, and was a reasonable model for it's age, the late 1980's. The lack of flush glazing and short corridor connections are woeful.

6- Complete trains have rarely been available, either through a lack of the correct liveries or coach types, there haven't been any Buffets or sleeper support coaches available.

7- There has never been a Mk2e produced before....!

8- Bachmann have also made the mistake of producing the wrong volumes of each coach type of earlier Mk2, too many firsts and not enough seconds.

 

If you're going to be dismayed with what mass produced items that aren't of interest to you currently frequent swapmeet tables, can it include those Bachmann Underground Ernie trains please...? I need the chassis for some future projects...

I appear to have thown the cat among the pigeons. Like I said, not really my area of modelling so personally I doubt i'd notice the difference between a flush glazed Hornby Mk2e and an Airfix coach thats circa 30 years old. Are the Hornby Blue Pullman (with the 47) coaches released a couple of years ago essentially the same as the Airfix ones but with a different livery? I guess a number of Mk3's are fetching stupid amounts on eBay at the present time, so I imagine demand is there - but perhaps only for certain models. Only time will tell how well they will sell, and whether lessons will be learnt regarding production numbers of first class coaches/brakes in comparison to second or thirds/corridor or open stock, etc.

 

I have never seen Underground Ernie, but dont really see such trains as that much of an issue at swapmeets. Main issue for me is the ever increasing number of stalls with Vans, Teddy Bears, Lego, etc - and of course those that just bring new stock with RRP prices thats availale everywhere.

[Fenman]

Vastly larger area than the GE section though, the models are applicable to most of the LNER Southern area and BR(ER) in the steam era, including the ECML, and includes NER and ScR for the B1, K1, L1.

 

Absolutely right; when I was lobbying Simon Kohler for the D16, I argued that it also saw use around the East Midlands (particularly coming off the M&GN lines), and some were for a time allocated to the CLC lines.

 

I'm not at all claiming that he listened to me, and in fact I'm sure he knew all that anyway, but the Claud was certainly not confined to a particularly narrow geographical area.

 

Plus, of course, it's really pretty. Now, will any of them be fitted with tablet-catchers...?

 

Paul

[The Stationmaster]

Absolutely right; when I was lobbying Simon Kohler for the D16, I argued that it also saw use around the East Midlands (particularly coming off the M&GN lines), and some were for a time allocated to the CLC lines.

 

I'm not at all claiming that he listened to me, and in fact I'm sure he knew all that anyway, but the Claud was certainly not confined to a particularly narrow geographical area.

 

Plus, of course, it's really pretty. Now, will any of them be fitted with tablet-catchers...?

 

Paul

 

As an aside to that one I have heard a lovely tale about a Hornby rep visiting a model shop in the recent past and who was sussing out interest/orders for some 'forthcoming ' items.  The list which the shop owner got a glance at included a 'D13' and he said to the rep 'why aren't you going to do a Claud, it would be much more popular than a D13'.

 

So was D13 a typo for D16/3 or was someone barking up the wrong tree?

[dibber25]

A few, somewhat opinionated, random thoughts re pricing:

 

Firstly, I would prefer to buy one model at £200 that was really good, than two at £100 each that were mediocre. If I can only afford £100 per week/month/year, then I'll save up rather than have something I consider below par.

 

Secondly, I don't think Hornby's main focus is the 'modeller' market, but something more general. A shame, but not surprising.

 

Thirdly, if Hornby (or any manufacturer) wants to keep prices down, but we still want to have fine detail, then they could simply supply the models as 'RTA' rather than 'RTR' (RTA = Ready to Assemble, RTR = Ready to Run). I'd be quite happy to fit the details myself, as I'm sure some others here would be also. What I'd like the manufacturer to do is get a decent finish to the paint job which I can't do. For those who want high detail RTR without doing any work at all themselves, there would potentially be two options: either get their LMS or someone else to do the fitting work; or the manufacturer can provide a true high detail RTR at a higher price if there is genuine demand for it.

 

For what it's worth though, I don't think RTA is something Hornby would consider as it's not their natural market space. Neither is it Bachmann's, but maybe Heljan, Dapol, DJM and Rapido could look at it as a way of keeping costs down but giving us the models we want, cheaper and with the detail (as long as the basic shape is right, of course!)

 

Food for thoughts...

 

Edit: poor grammar...

I doubt that Rapido will do 'kit' type models. They tried it in Canada with their LRC coaches I believe and decided it was way better for everyone if they did the assembly themselves.

[m mcdermott]

RMweb membership comes over as overwhelmingly 'general' and even Hornby-dependant especially going off remarks by many of the newer members. That aside, I still think RMweb is an excellent weather vane on buyers feelings from all camps and it does look as if Hornby has taken on board the ill-feeling towards the general adoption of moulded smokebox darts and handrails. Re the J15 0-6-0, in my experience they make for very cute and attractive models. For this reason I am confident they will also sell to people who dont even model the GE area. I truly hope so because this will give Hornby the confidence to produce more 'ordinarry-Joe' engines.

your right there coach , im one of those that bought the airfix 61XX years before the bachy V 3 and Hornby L1 a lot of us pretended a lot once upon a time .mali

[trisonic]

 Re the J15 0-6-0, in my experience they make for very cute and attractive models. For this reason I am confident they will also sell to people who dont even model the GE area. I truly hope so because this will give Hornby the confidence to produce more 'ordinarry-Joe' engines.

I have to agree, Larry, as you know the J15 (and its variants) is quite possibly the most successful locomotive of all time - taking into account return on revenue vs longevity and cost. The most numerous of all classes of locomotives taken on by LNER at its' inception.

 

Designed in the 1800's with examples still working in the early 1960s. It also holds the world record in construction speed - something like 48 hours** at Stratford  (someone will know the precise time).

 

I'm only surprised it took this long to be a RTR.   The "lowly" 0-6-0's are the biggest success story of British railways in my view and virtually define the history.

 

Best, Pete.

 

Edit: **The record construction time was actually just over 9 hours. Amazing. Thanks for the correction, everybody.

[Guest Belgian]

I stopped buying "wide of interest" locos ages ago but I will be slipping a Lanky 2-4-2T and a Dukedog under the wire.......

 

Totally agree about the kits but not the elecrifiication flashes. It's much easier to add them if they are needed than to remove them if they aren't.

 

"Late crest" started to appear in 1956 and, with rapid withdrawals taking place in the early sixties, many late crest locos would have run without electrification flashes for far longer than they carried them.

 

John

Bear in mind that there are Late Crest Period 1 (left and right, 1956-1959) and Late Crest Period 2 (left only,1959-The End) models out there. The electification flashes came in at about the time of Period 2. Most models are released with Period 2 crests.

 

JE

[Guest Belgian]

I did not mean the Q1 is a real equivalent to an 8F. I mean,t it in the sense of this is as close we will get on the passenger dominated SR. Of course an S15 may be close too....

 

With Hornby doing the LSWR, I think Bachmann should stick to the SECR and bring out the H, D and P class. In the meantime I,ve started on 0-6-4 J class which I seriously doubt any manufacturer will start.

 

With that logic, Heljan should go for the LBSCR - but wait a minute, Bachmann have started on it already!

 

JE

[GordonC]

No, there are several liveries but the point I am making (not very well) is that these companies are geared to different production volumes. I don't think you would ever see Hornby producing Sarah Siddons but it fits nicely with the way Heljan works. It is niche in the same way that Baby Deltics are niche - in fact they are much the same in only being few in number and pretty much limited to the London suburbs. It has been around a lot longer than 40 years and has a cult following, so it's a good'un for Heljan but you're right, it wouldn't sell in the volumes Hornby would need. They would be much better off doing an 87, a 90 or a 92 because they have lots of modern eye-catching liveries and they are more widely used BUT and its a big but - Hornby have already sold tens of thousands of them and the majority of their customers have been happy with them. Why spend six figures on new tooling to satisfy a small number of people who aren't happy with the existing model? Ironically, it might be better for Heljan to tool up those locos because they could cater to the relatively small demand at the higher price. But if you are Heljan you'll say "but we did a Class 86 and there were loads of grumbles about it" (I don't know whether it sold well or not, so I can't comment but I guess you can see where this theme is going.......

 

I agree with what you're saying Chris, but I would have thought that at least some of the AC electrics would have fallen into Hornby territory of long-term, year on year sales. Perhaps not the volume sales of thousands of the same identical model, but several differently-numbered models in the same livery were produced in the same batch then they could sell. I'm guessing thats the direction Hornby are moving in with the pair of differently numbered 50's and the pair Colas 56 in the same livery in the same catalogue.

 

So when it comes to criteria used to pick what gets produced, I'd guess it goes something like

 

     Numbers of locos in the class (100x 86s, 36x 87s, 50x 90s)

     Numbers of liveries that can be produced (can you even count the numbers for 86, 87 and 90???)

     Geographical spread

     Period of operation (86's are coming up for 50 years old, 87s 40 and even the 90s are over 25)

     The all-important Transition era (86's tick!)

     Previous sales of similar models

     Standard of competing models (Hornby 86, 87, 90, Heljan 86, Bachmann 85)

     Related models produced (air-con Mk2s, Mk3's including DVT, intermodal flats, Freightliners, Bachmann BAA, TPOs)

     Comonality of parts

     X-Factor

     

Now with where we are with practically all the diesels produced to a good standard or land-grabbed (ok there are some with issues e.g. Class 25 cab roof, but they're still produced and will satisfy many) surely the biggest gap in whats currently available to modern standards is the AC electrics and they've got to tick most of the above boxes for what has the potential (if done right) for sales.

 

Heljan didn't really produce a definitive Class 86 but it kept a definitive price. Hornby's current 87 and 90 are like putting lipstick on a pig. The paintwork and decoration are beautiful but the models underneath just aren't up to scratch and I wont be buying any more until something better comes out. I'm sure there must be plenty of others in the same boat. I can understand the Classes 81-84 and 91's being left but they're still producing 91's to railroad standards but just look at the price!!! I've heard conflicting reports about whether Bachmann 85's do or dont sell well, obviously only Bachmann know how they compare to the rest of their range.

 

Sometimes I do find the choice of models produced a little puzzling, I mean, why produce a beautiful Mk3 DVT in IC Swallow when there wasn't the locos to a similar standard to run with it? Were they selected more for their post-WCML careers? Look at how much IC Swallow DVT's are sold on Ebay for - £50 - 60 - is that demand for them to be hauled on North Wales drags by diesels? Thinking of the Super-detailed D&E models Hornby have retooled from scratch most I understand completely - Class 08, 31, HST, 50, 56, 60, 67 and then there's the Class 153. I know it has lots of liveries and is a self-contained full train for short layouts ... but is that really going to out-sell what could be produced for AC electrics???

 

There are always oddities that get thrown up with the X-factor - one-offs, prototypes, 'celebrity' locos, prestige or express locos

 

Believe it or not I'm actually quite happy with what Hornby have announced in their 2014 programme, but I'm just stunned that these announcements come and go without at least one of the obvious AC classes floating to the top to be picked off. There just always seems to be the same mantra against them - 'AC electrics dont sell', which I really find hard to understand.

[Ian J.]

Indeed a possibility.

 

But then everybody 'moaned' about fitting the detail parts on-to the VI Trains Class 47.

 

Agreed. But then, wasn't that a pretty high price at the time? I think if somebody is really worried about fitting details either because of time or dexterity, then they could find someone to do it. I know that I'd prefer to have a £100 model with no details fitted and fit them myself, than a £150 model all done for me. Saves me £££. If those who want true RTR with high detail already affixed aren't prepared to pay £50 to someone in this country to fit it then they're just being particularly mean...

[Ozexpatriate]

... if Hornby (or any manufacturer) wants to keep prices down, but we still want to have fine detail, then they could simply supply the models as 'RTA' rather than 'RTR' (RTA = Ready to Assemble, RTR = Ready to Run). I'd be quite happy to fit the details myself, as I'm sure some others here would be also. What I'd like the manufacturer to do is get a decent finish to the paint job which I can't do.

Ian, I wholeheartedly agree regarding paint, but I don't think that "RTA" is a successful marketing strategy.

 

This was a common approach in the US market for things like coaches and cabooses some years ago. A paint finish was applied, but the grab rails were provided in a little bag, often as unbent wire with a bending template on a sheet of paper. From what I can tell, this approach has all but disappeared.

 

Arguably Hornby do this to some extent already by providing a bag with brake gear and vacuum pipes etc.

[Ian J.]

Ian, I wholeheartedly agree regarding paint, but I don't think that "RTA" is a successful marketing strategy.

 

This was a common approach in the US market for things like coaches and cabooses some years ago. A paint finish was applied, but the grab rails were provided in a little bag, often as unbent wire with a bending template on a sheet of paper. From what I can tell, this approach has all but disappeared.

 

Arguably Hornby do this to some extent already by providing a bag with brake gear and vacuum pipes etc.

 

As I said originally, I don't think it's likely to be something that Hornby would do, but I believe it needs to be aired as an option to keep both the manufacturers and us buyers aware that it could be done as a way to keep basic costs down.

[Guest Belgian]

The 2 HAL has received almost completely- positive comment so I'm going to put one small question mark against it (Ducks below the parapit) - it's not a citicism though.

 

That is, I think it's a slightly strange choice of prototype by Hornby. The reason for that remark is that the 2 HAL was the the successor to the 2 BIL (and looked pretty much the same as the latter) which Hornby have already done but the HALs had a shorter working life, less livery variations in Southern days and a more restricted operational area. The BILs appeared in 1935 and worked on the Western and Central Sections whilst the HALs appeared in 1939 for the Eastern Section and weren't used on Central and Western Division lines until 1957. Last examples of both types of unit were withdrawn in 1971.

 

If a HAL was to be done why not choose the TIN HALs? They at least looked a lot different to the earlier ones (they had flat fronts) and would give Hornby an example of the HALfway (my 'joke' - I can't blame anyone else for it) Southern Electric design attributed to Bulleid and there would now be examples from all three design groups (Maunsell, Bulleid and BR) available. (Admittedly, there were only 8 Tin HALs and 92 of the type Hornby are to make, which is probably why they are doing it anyway!!).

 

I appreciate that Hornby want to do 2 rather than 4 car sets, which is why I advance this comment - and I also realise that they have already committed to it. There are Maunsell and BR 2 car sets now already available, so I'm just commenting on what appears to me to be a lost opportunity to produce something a little different to what has gone before!

 

JE