2014 Hornby Announcements

[jwd]

Returning to differentiating between the RailRoad models and the "standard" range (see my earler post), I noted the following from the Hornby website:

 

R3170 RailRoad GWR 4-6-0 'Adderley Hall' 4900 Hall Class. RRP: £82.99

Features: 3 Pole Motor with Flywheel. DCC Ready, GWR livery.  Detail:  None stated. Special Features: Loco Drive (note illustration on Hornby website shows brake gear present)

 

R3169 RailRoad GWR 4-6-0 'Olton Hall' 4900 Hall Class. RRP: £82.99

Features: 3 Pole Motor with Flywheel. DCC Ready, GWR livery (sic). Detail:  None stated. Special Features: Loco Drive (note illustration on Hornby website shows brake gear present)

 

R3205 GWR 4-6-0 'Rood Ashton Hall' 4900 Class. RRP£119.99

Features: 3 Pole Motor with Flywheel. DCC Ready, BR livery.  Detail:  Brake Gear, Etched Nameplates. Special Features: Cab detail

 

If the Hornby website pictures accurately reflect the final models (a big IF), then the £37 differential will get you 1) an etched nameplate, 2) Cab detail, 3) possibly a brass casting for the smoke box dart and 4) er, that's about it....

 

I do not see anything that I could not upgrade in my workshop for under 20 quid (smokebox dart: £4.20, etched plates: £9.25, HMRS bufferbeam numbers £6.50 - the current prices from the internet). Even the backhead wouldn't cost more than £3.50 or so (and even then "lack of cab detail" may be simply a question of not having the backhead moulding painted on the RailRoad model). This minimal difference between "standard" and "RailRoad" models may be something also found with their LMS, LNER, SR and BR models. And if this is representative of the differential between "standard" and "RailRoad" models, then for the failrly skilful modeller, RailRoad models could become a very, very attractive alternative to the "standard" range.

 

I wonder how many modellers, not getting the "standard" version Hall in GWR livery, will acquire Adderly Hall in the GWR livery and upgrade and thus deprive Hornby of the sale of a "standard" Hall model in GWR livery at a later date?

 

This minimal differential between the ranges may result in Hornby looking at the sales of both ranges and then deciding to follow a "less detailed" route if RailRoad sales of the Hall are better than the sales of the standard range (which I think would be unfortunate).

 

edited for coherence

 

Paint job.

 

One example is the poor paint job on the Railroad 4-4-0 County, then compare with the County in the Olympics pack, far superior.

 

Until it arrives we can just guess on that.

[Ozexpatriate]

Apologies for a bit of snipping.  I think Hornby have already recognised that some modellers will go for the Railroad versions for the very reasons iD has identified but at the same time I suspect some folk might avoid the 'standard' range versions because they in reality offer very little extra for a considerable difference in price.  And it's interesting to note that this 'experiment'(?) has not been repeated in the 2014 range except for coaches.  I suspect that as a marketing idea, and potential act of 'appeasement' to those of us who didn't welcome 'design clever', it has probably now been overtaken by a possible return to greater levels of fidelity although perhaps not to the extent seen in the past. 

Or perhaps that because there is a similar product in the market already, they simply felt like they had to offer a Hall at a very attractive price point, but that the more popular BR era would command a higher price anyway.

 

I'd have to see them side by side, but the abridged lining out on the Adderly Hall illustration might be a bit nicer than that on my Bachmann Hall.

 

And then there's that whole Hall / Grange thing from years back. 

[jonathan452]

Coaches

 

Mk2E - Not my area of modelling, however I still dont understand this. I go to a fair few swapmeets around the country, and the number of these blue/grey coffin stock coaches produced by Airfix/Dapol/Hornby found languishing in bargain boxes is astonishing. Not only that, the uptake of Bachmann's Mk2's has been relatively poor in comparison with the more versatile Mk1, with some perfectly good examples being found for less than a tenner in a number of places. This isn't just restricted to brake ends either - even TSO's, which i'm sure there were plenty of around the country. Therefore, i'm a little baffled by the market research that has led to this conclusion.

Not the TSO's!

[Legend]

 

Price's,  I see no one has said anything about this yet?.

 

 just had a look at the new West County loco a little bit shocked at the RRP from Hornby ;RRP £157.50, Come on this model must have paid for it self ten times over, so why the silly price?.

And a RRP £162.25 RRP on a 31!, god this is getting to the stage where i may stop buying Hornby at these prices.

 

The other thing to look at is these prices they have given here are this years prices, so how much will they be when they come out in 2015?.

Darren

 

Add to this that your chances of huge discounts are diminishing (see thread on sting in the tail for retailers, and also Hattons prices for 2014 releases) and you realise Hornby have just whacked through a significant increase

[ThaneofFife]

The market may be there but it just aint big enough to suit volume sales.

 

OK - no to volume sales but sticking with that line of thought then and the market being there, does anybody else see an opportunity for small batch sales of said locos in the same vein as the recently announced Sarah Siddons or is there a million and one variables I have overlooked using that comparison? 

 

If I'm right then that takes the discussion out of the Hornby 2014 release thread really......given that they dont really go for the small batch stuff.

[ThaneofFife]

If I want to see (or rather not see because of the OHLE) AC electrics or units I can go to my local railway line(s). Why would I want models of them?

As for diesels, we've had pretty much the lot, but it seems the customers ain't satisfied. How many Westerns, 37's, 47's etc have been produced?

Ed

 

 

Erm....Edward.....on that basis I suggest you free up your loft or garage or spare room space straightaway,  sell all your model railway stuff and go down to the local railway line and watch trains at your hearts content.  Honestly you may not "get" the AC thing but if you do feel compelled to chuck in your two penneth against models of them, then at least come up with something a bit better than that as I could just as easily say the same about steam or diesel but dont feel 1) its really a proper opinion and 2) I feel its slightly insulting to other modellers whose interests lie elsewhere - why pee on peoples bonfires if you have no interest whatsoever the subject matter?

 

Maybe you would like to put this sign up?  

 

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=wpYjNC6Av2FxQM&tbnid=T2GW8S0UNNfBUM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Frpmarks%2F4177832434%2F&ei=WFewUp7LM6GT0AWWtoDQAg&bvm=bv.57967247,d.ZG4&psig=AFQjCNEefSdHESx-RNH5q43jMQPycknKig&ust=1387374799259019

[Miss Prism]

 just had a look at the new West County loco a little bit shocked at the RRP from Hornby ;RRP £157.50, Come on this model must have paid for it self ten times over, so why the silly price?.

And a RRP £162.25 RRP on a 31!, god this is getting to the stage where i may stop buying Hornby at these prices.

 

These models are from the now-vanished 'design-expensive but comparatively cheap to build' era of ten years ago, and (as predicted) Hornby is now faced with the extra cost because of significantly higher wages in assembly. In retrospect, Hornby will wish not to have introduced silly things like opening doors and working fans, but it's too late to re-engineer that era of models now. On the plus side, it's reassurring to see Hornby has been able to re-use its Sanda Kan tooling.

[Ben Alder]

2 x 0-6-0 tender locos, wow.  The J15 is a nice addition, no excuse for potential east Anglian modellers.  Southern fans now have the C class and 700, a C2X will complete the trio.

 

Will the 700 have bashing potential for our 'north of the border' gang?

I hope so!

[Pete 75C]

If I want to see (or rather not see because of the OHLE) AC electrics or units I can go to my local railway line(s). Why would I want models of them?

Ed

 

Hmmm. Based on that assumption, maybe I should add a couple of giraffes, an elephant and the Eiffel Tower to my layout because I'm pretty sure I can't see those locally... Not sure I understand your thinking there.

[t-b-g]

We are back to the idea that we want top quality models with no short cuts in quality but we want them at low RRP and then we want substantial discounts as well.

 

Just look at the prices of the RTR things available on mainland Europe and be glad that even at the revised prices, the new Hornby offerings are really very good value for money.

 

Hornby have had a pretty poor couple of years and I, for one, would rather see them make themselves more viable long term with a hopefully improved profitability, than to see them give stuff away at low prices and subsequently decide that the model railway market is not a good place to be in.

 

If people want cheap and cheerful, then go for the railroad range and be prepared to do a little bit of work to upgrade the model to your obviously very high standards.

 

I think that the locos announced are an excellent selection (although admittedly nothing that fits with my narrow personal interests) and I can see some of them doing really well for Hornby. So I say fair play to them for both the announcements and the pricing policy.

 

We have had it far too good for far too long, based on cheap far eastern manufacturing that is no longer there.

 

We need to adjust our ideas and expectations, just as we have done many times since we had locos like the Triang Princess and Jinty all those years ago.

 

Tony

[298]

 

Coaches

 

Mk2E - Not my area of modelling, however I still dont understand this. I go to a fair few swapmeets around the country, and the number of these blue/grey coffin stock coaches produced by Airfix/Dapol/Hornby found languishing in bargain boxes is astonishing. Not only that, the uptake of Bachmann's Mk2's has been relatively poor in comparison with the more versatile Mk1, with some perfectly good examples being found for less than a tenner in a number of places. This isn't just restricted to brake ends either - even TSO's, which i'm sure there were plenty of around the country. Therefore, i'm a little baffled by the market research that has led to this conclusion.

 

 

1- Market research

2- Previous wish lists

3- Not everyone buys secondhand

4- Airfix produced equal numbers of GO's, TSO's, and Brakes, and only in one livery. These were Mk2d's and although were good models for their age, that age as 1977.

5- The Lima Aircon is a Mk2f, and was a reasonable model for it's age, the late 1980's. The lack of flush glazing and short corridor connections are woeful.

6- Complete trains have rarely been available, either through a lack of the correct liveries or coach types, there haven't been any Buffets or sleeper support coaches available.

7- There has never been a Mk2e produced before....!

8- Bachmann have also made the mistake of producing the wrong volumes of each coach type of earlier Mk2, too many firsts and not enough seconds.

 

If you're going to be dismayed with what mass produced items that aren't of interest to you currently frequent swapmeet tables, can it include those Bachmann Underground Ernie trains please...? I need the chassis for some future projects...

[G-BOAF]

As a long-term advocate for quality over low price, I can't disagree with the argument above. I can (probably) just about afford my desires from this years Hornby offerings. If anything the reduction in deep discounting will encourage me to be guided by where I WANT to spend my money, rather than where's cheapest, including heritage railway concerns.

 

While I have traditionally shopped around for a bargain, I have bought very little on impluse due to deep discounting; a Gresley Full Brake from Signal Box (25 notes for full teak) being the only recent example.

[HornbyA3Fan]

The thing that I am looking forward too, is the new MML MK3 coaches in scale length, which in my opinion makes up the lack of AC's electrics from Hornby this year. I mean for example MML is now been defunct for 6 years, yet the interest is still there after all of these years, yet with the AC electrics in all sorts of liveries from electric blue to the Freightliner powerhaul seems to be forgotten in by which can be seen by the ever decreasing numbers of AC electrics from Hornby in the past 4 years or so.

 

What would make this year a lot more exciting is Hornby making more AC's electrics for the AC fans out there. 

 

But to stop being negative about the lack of AC's, a lot of saving up for the MML coaches and hopefully a MML bambi hst, as well as the rest of the Hornby 2014 range

[edcayton]

Erm....Edward.....on that basis I suggest you free up your loft or garage or spare room space straightaway,  sell all your model railway stuff and go down to the local railway line and watch trains at your hearts content.  Honestly you may not "get" the AC thing but if you do feel compelled to chuck in your two penneth against models of them, then at least come up with something a bit better than that as I could just as easily say the same about steam or diesel but dont feel 1) its really a proper opinion and 2) I feel its slightly insulting to other modellers whose interests lie elsewhere - why pee on peoples bonfires if you have no interest whatsoever the subject mattI

 

 

 I DO go and watch trains! Don't we all when we get chance? Nearly all of us model history-I don't see many 50's, Deltics or early AC electrics on the main line nowadays.

 

What I did say was that the OHLE does literally get in the way when looking at the real thing and even more so the model, and although I haven't tried it I'd think it makes the operation much more difficult.

 

FWIW I think that loco+coaches or mixed freight gives better play value than multiple unit or block trains.

 

I say again that the manufacturers probably know what will sell better than we do. It also seems that nothing they can do is good enough for a large number of D&E modellers although a  number of people (Jim S-W and Andi Dagworth to name two) seem to produce very effective models with what's available.

 

I did not intend to p... on fires or insult anybody and apologise if I did so.

 

Ed

 

 

.

[edcayton]

Hmmm. Based on that assumption, maybe I should add a couple of giraffes, an elephant and the Eiffel Tower to my layout because I'm pretty sure I can't see those locally... Not sure I understand your thinking there.

 

errr-they're not trains!

 

Ed

[Waverley West]

 

I say again that the manufacturers probably know what will sell better than we do. It also seems that nothing they can do is good enough for a large number of D&E modellers although a  number of people (Jim S-W and Andi Dagworth to name two) seem to produce very effective models with what's available.

 

 

They may well do. They should do, after all. But if we all sat back and accepted what the manufacturers tell us what we want on the grounds that "there's no market", we'd never have had the Blue Pullman for a start, let alone many other models available today (early prototype diesels for example).

 

I don't think you can criticize electric modellers for not being satisfied. You can hardly say they have it all yet still aren't satisfied. Anyone wanting to put together an RTR-based layout with varied BR or later electric traction is really going to struggle. Which must put people off in itself, as other posters have noted. It was certainly a factor in me choosing to model 1980s Edinburgh Waverley, rather than Carlisle, for example.

[The Stationmaster]

OK - no to volume sales but sticking with that line of thought then and the market being there, does anybody else see an opportunity for small batch sales of said locos in the same vein as the recently announced Sarah Siddons or is there a million and one variables I have overlooked using that comparison? 

 

If I'm right then that takes the discussion out of the Hornby 2014 release thread really......given that they dont really go for the small batch stuff.

 

How do you know that they're not turning in that direction for part of the range?  Not that I know they are - but look at the market situation and the way Chinese production seems to work in batches of 500 and the fact that the commissioners and 'small' manufacturers have created/adapted to a rather different shape of market from Hornby's old mass market/big production runs methods.

 

Then take that step further and you see a main range 0-6-0 coming in c.£110 and a Railroad range 2-10-0 coming in at about the same price - the 0-6-0 sits bang on the market price range for something of that wheel arrangement, give or take a tenner.  The 2-10-0 sis in  Railroad because it's probably not saleable at the sort of price standard range sophistication of parts and assembly would drive it to.  It might not yet be too obvious but there seems to be a product rethink going on in Hornby in order to respond to the market and while some of it still has some very blurry edges 2014 will, if nothing else, be an interesting test of that sort of approach.

[Dagworth]

They may well do. They should do, after all. But if we all sat back and accepted what the manufacturers tell us what we want on the grounds that "there's no market", we'd never have had the Blue Pullman for a start, let alone many other models available today (early prototype diesels for example).

Until Heljan produced their 47 we were told that the UK market wouldn't support decent drive diesels!

 

Andi

[JBM37404]

 I DO go and watch trains! Don't we all when we get chance? Nearly all of us model history-I don't see many 50's, Deltics or early AC electrics on the main line nowadays.

 

What I did say was that the OHLE does literally get in the way when looking at the real thing and even more so the model, and although I haven't tried it I'd think it makes the operation much more difficult.

 

FWIW I think that loco+coaches or mixed freight gives better play value than multiple unit or block trains.

 

I say again that the manufacturers probably know what will sell better than we do. It also seems that nothing they can do is good enough for a large number of D&E modellers although a  number of people (Jim S-W and Andi Dagworth to name two) seem to produce very effective models with what's available.

 

I did not intend to p... on fires or insult anybody and apologise if I did so.

 

Ed

 

 

.

 

The Diesel selection now on offer is fantastic. Alls that is being asked is that someone hopefully looks at frontline Intercity traction with multitude of eras and liveries/names and even regions comes with that. Hornby have issued some great Diesels all that is being asked is that they dip their toe in with an updated AC. I think a 90 would be the best bet for the first given that they still run in decent numbers on the mainline.

 

I dont wish that to be at the expense of Hornbys profits or other stock being developed. I accept that prices may be steep to buy but to re-work an old Hornby 90 could cost a fair whack if you re-motor and go down the sound road.

 

Heres hoping.

[ThaneofFife]

It was certainly a factor in me choosing to model 1980s Edinburgh Waverley, rather than Carlisle, for example.

 

 

ooh Carlisle 1980s - that would have been good to see.

[edcayton]

They may well do. They should do, after all. But if we all sat back and accepted what the manufacturers tell us what we want on the grounds that "there's no market", we'd never have had the Blue Pullman for a start, let alone many other models available today (early prototype diesels for example).

 

I don't think you can criticize electric modellers for not being satisfied. You can hardly say they have it all yet still aren't satisfied. Anyone wanting to put together an RTR-based layout with varied BR or later electric traction is really going to struggle. Which must put people off in itself, as other posters have noted. It was certainly a factor in me choosing to model 1980s Edinburgh Waverley, rather than Carlisle, for example.

 Taking the Blue Pullman as an example. There was a contemporary model of it to then-current rtr standards, plus the Kitmaster for the "serious" modellers.

There was much frothing for a new model three or four(?) years ago resulting in the very nice Bachmann one. Some must have sold, but there was much whingeing because it wasn't the full eight-car WR set, and not all cars were produced. Now they seem to be remaindered at several shops so presumably there wasn't the demand in the end.

I have no idea what proportion of Hornby's market we represent, but I suspect it's not that much.

 

Ed

[Removed a/c]

Looks like a busy year ahead. Lots of  great items for me in 2014. Two full HST sets to buy

[JBM37404]

 Taking the Blue Pullman as an example. There was a contemporary model of it to then-current rtr standards, plus the Kitmaster for the "serious" modellers.

There was much frothing for a new model three or four(?) years ago resulting in the very nice Bachmann one. Some must have sold, but there was much whingeing because it wasn't the full eight-car WR set, and not all cars were produced. Now they seem to be remaindered at several shops so presumably there wasn't the demand in the end.

I have no idea what proportion of Hornby's market we represent, but I suspect it's not that much.

 

Ed

 With all due respect by the look of things there will be continued frothing for ACs. The blue pullman was a cracking model from what I have seen but as with the 85 that Bachmann produced the appeal is limited.

 

ACs are hauling Class 1 & Class 4 trains as I type and have been for decades. The drum will continue to beat!

[ThaneofFife]

How do you know that they're not turning in that direction for part of the range? 

 

I dont have access to that sort of information but if they are turning in that direction then that nicely backs up the very idea of it that I touched on earlier vis a vis - if the market is there but not enough for volume sales (as per Coachmanns post) why not produce new ACs in small batches.

[Guest Belgian]

I dont have access to that sort of information but if they are turning in that direction then that nicely backs up the very idea of it that I touched on earlier vis a vis - if the market is there but not enough for volume sales (as per Coachmanns post) why not produce new ACs in small batches.

 

Selling them in small batches doesn't affect the cost of investment, it merely reduces the return. Hornby is not in the market to appease minority or specialist interests but to maximise return on investment for its sharehoilders. Thus all this frothing about such minority or special interest models will have no effect. . . . it is the smaller manufacturers such as Heljan or Dapol which have different strategies to whom such expectations should turn.

 

JE