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Andy Y

2014 Hornby Announcements

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Personal preferences aside for a moment my observation is that I feel Hornby have realised that Bachmann have stolen the lead on them by producing the work horses and are now fighting back.

 

But what a set of releases for ER modellers. I'm not sure I can recall a year before where one region was so strongly favoured over all the others.

 

I hope in time we see some of these models back-dated and in their pre-grouping form.

 

Now personal preferences to the fore:

I agree that the Terrier desperately needs updating. 

Edited by Anglian

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From here.

Anyway here are the top ten results with "votes" followed by the respective locomotive(s):

  • 17, a K1 and an as-built Merchant Navy
  • 14, an S15
  • 12, a Q6 and a redesigned King
  • 11, a W1
  • 10, a J27 and an updated/loco-drive Dean Goods
  • 08, some form of industrial steam locomotive (this might actually be under-counted)
  • 07, a 47xx and a B12
  • 06, an LSWR 700
  • 05, a Claughton, D14/D15/D16, J21, P2 with A4 streamlining, a Saint, Turbomotive and a V2
  • 04, a Caledonian 0-6-0, J15, and a LSWR Radial 4-4-2T
I make no assertions about the accuracy of my counting here but with the 'law of numbers' they are our predictions (more or less). So did enough of us pick the winners?

 

From here.

Well, you've got less than 24 hours to go now until you find out how right or wrong any product predictions have been.

 

I've finally finished the information which will be released at 10.00 tomorrow and I can promise some surprising content in there which no-one's been even close too (as far as I've seen). RMweb will have the most comprehensive set of information possible in a form which will be easier to browse than Hornby's own pages (due to the way they have to group information) and more comprehensive in scope than any printed article can be.

Bit cheeky there Andy, throwing people off the scent like that. Everything that Hornby is doing was picked, even the Crosti 2-10-0,- though it only had a couple of votes. A number of people guessed the 2-HAL (I just left it out because I limited my list to steam locomotives.)

 

Despite all the doubters, I'd say as a group we're not too bad at this game.

Edited by Ozexpatriate
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I'm really disappointed, nay, heartbroken, at the lack of brand new GWR or S&DJR prototypes, in my view, the LNER and it's constituents get far too much exposure in the world today... Why couldn't we have some more panniers, I mean, there must be, oh, at least 1 or 2 remaining prototypes they could have chosen from, surely that's not too much to ask, in this day and age, wot?!...in fact, anything in Brunswick Green with a copper cap would have done... Can't Hornby see that this is a no-brainer?????????!!!!!!! :O  :O  :lol:

 

I know you are joking, but...

 

I had the opposite reaction looking at the steam era Train Packs and Train Sets:

  • GLOUCESTER Pullman
  • GWR FWW Troop train
  • GWR (Preserved) “Pitchford Hall”
  • Another preserved loco + support coach (albeit ex-LMS)
  • Assorted SR/BR(SR) emus.

 

It reminded me of the time a couple of years back when 3 out of 4 train packs were SR/BR(SR). Surely it makes sense to spread things around a little more?

 

Paul

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Are people happier to ignore the lack of a third rail than the absence of catenary?

I think they might be.

 

Running 25kV electrics with no OHLE looks daft; including masts but omitting the wires less so as they are almost invisible from a distance on the prototype.

 

Running DC locos or units without a third rail is rather less obvious.

 

John

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Bit cheeky there Andy, throwing people off the scent like that. Everything that Hornby is doing was picked, even the Crosti 2-10-0,- though it only had a couple of votes. A number of people guessed the 2-HAL (I just left it out because I limited my list to steam locomotives.)

 

Despite all the doubters, I'd say as a group we're not too bad at this game.

 

Even better, in fact, as you've not highlighted the D16 at #9.

 

Paul

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I don't doubt your sources, Chris, but I can't help but agree with GordonC. I find it staggering and inexplicable that the Sarah Siddons Met Bo-Bo (for example) is considered likely to be a better seller than a new 87 or 90, especially taking into account all the possible livery variations as Gordon says. I have already bought a couple of Heljan 86s, a Bachmann 85 and a couple of Hornby InterCity Mk 3 DVTs even though I have no intention of putting up catenary. I intend to run them just for fun, like many modellers I suspect. Are there really not enough modellers out there without catenary who would do the same? Are people happier to ignore the lack of a third rail than the absence of catenary?

 

Your word about Sarah Siddons nail it for me. The range for Steam era modellers also is fantastic across the board, and having worked on a Heljan 86 its just not even in the same league that the Bachmann 85 and potentially what Hornby could produce. I am going to persevere with AC modelling as my bigger project which I have in mind will be 'wired'.

 

The revised Hornby 60 is fantastic which shows what they can do so I am hoping that they look at all 3 of the major AC types. The 85 may not have been the best choice by Bachmann as the early roarers are barely remembered by anybody under 35 and the difficulties of running one in preservation mean the sole surviver will be a static exhibit.

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.

 

But the 4-VEP was awful  -  so why would a manufacturer think that an awful model should sell well ?

 

The real test will be when ( if ? ) the revised 4-VEP is released.

 

.

My reference was to the 4-CEP (the Bachmann 4-car unit, having reached its sales peak) not the Hornby VEP. As to the Hornby VEP, I'm quite sure that Hornby did not - and do not - consider it an 'awful' model. I don't imagine that any manufacturer sets out thinking I've made an awful model so it won't sell. However it may well be that poor sales of the VEP will have the effect of convincing Hornby that a four-car unit isn't a good idea, while the apparently high demand for the 2-BIL will doubtless have them thinking that two-car sets are the way to go -hence the 2-HAL.

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I think they might be.

 

Running 25kV electrics with no OHLE looks daft; including masts but omitting the wires less so as they are almost invisible from a distance on the prototype.

 

Running DC locos or units without a third rail is rather less obvious.

 

John

OHLE is on the increase again, GWML to be wired as well as many other bits of the country. Loads of new EMUs on the way also over the next 20 years as well as Desiro family types. The call for an easy to use system has to be happening soon....

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Why couldn't we have some more panniers, I mean, there must be, oh, at least 1 or 2 remaining prototypes they could have chosen from, 

 

Actually there are a hell of a lot of pannier tank classes that survived to BR and have never been available ready to run. Its always been a puzzle to me that so few have been produced R2R. Especially as with a bit of clever design there's a lot of variations that could be encompassed with limited changes and fundamentally the same chassis/mechanism.

I suppose the problem is that to the casual eye they are all just pannier tanks...

Edited by JimC

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I'm still of the opinion that if there was a decent "easy to assemble / ready to use" British overhead catenary readily available, then AC locos and EMU's would sell.  Still hoping Dapol will continue with their plans for this.

 

If Classes 86 and 90 are not popular, how come Hornby have been releasing their old moulding locos with different liveries over all the years? Market research must have told them there was demand otherwise they would have abandoned theses locos years ago. After all, 86's and 90's were seen over a much wider geographical area than the SR EMU's. 

 

The old Hornby models have long since paid the cost of development, so are relatively inexpensive for Hornby to make.

 

A new model requires the new tooling, which is expensive.

 

My opinion, part of the problem (and this is not necessarily unique to overhead models) is the lack of consistent range of models to allow one to model a given area.  Great if someone comes out with a new, accurate class 86/87, but it limits your options if era appropriate EMU's aren't offered as well.

 

Bachmann have seemed to take a scattered approach to overhead models with the class 85 & 350 which can't be used together, which to me helped to encourage poor sales.  They might have had better success choosing 2 models that could be used together in a layout, convincing more modellers that overhead modelling is viable. 

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Personal preferences aside for a moment my observation is that I feel Hornby have realised that Bachmann have stolen the lead on them by producing the work horses and are now fighting back.

 

But what a set of releases for ER modellers. I'm not sure I can recall a year before where one region was so strongly favoured over all the others.

 

I hope in time we see some of these models back-dated and in their pre-grouping form.

 

Now personal preferences to the fore:

I agree that the Terrier desperately needs updating. 

We did have a Southernfest one year. Can't remember the details now , but T9, King Arthur. West Country etc probably. It does show that unlike in the 80s (the year of the loco) Hornby really don't look at balanced ranges any more, probably just do it on the basis of what they think will sell most (seems reasonable!) What continually surprises me is the lack of a lovel Caley Blue 812. Simon Kohler has remarked in past that blue steam locos sell well, yet here we have , an admittedly cute J15, in black, black and err.........black. Over to you Bachmann!

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Assuming that the production model develops from this early pre-prod it certainly packs a bit of weight into that whitemetal body, this shot shows just how narrow the footplate is.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/public/style_images/master/attachicon.gif700cS.jpg

Once someone modifies the boiler including lowering its pitch and shortening its smokebox, I can think of several Drummond style 0-6-0 classes that could be modelled:

 

A backdated LSWR Black Motor (pre-Urie)

Caley Jumbos

Highland Railway Barneys

 

... not forgetting Douglas and Donald of Thomas the Tank Engine fame

 

However, I've no idea if the motor assembly would have to be altered if you lowered the boiler.

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I actually can't believe how excited I am about hornbys announcement, it feels like they've created my wish list! I mean HST's, air con coaches and 50's in large logo, perfect for my Penzance layout. As well as the Bachmann air con coaches it's tremendous. May have to flog my Dapol/mainline coaches. I showed my girlfriend the list and her reaction was priceless. She just looked at me and said "holy s**t, we're gonna be so poor." Haha at least she's resigned to the fact I'll be blasting my savings.

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.

 

But the 4-VEP was awful  -  so why would a manufacturer think that an awful model should sell well ?

 

The real test will be when ( if ? ) the revised 4-VEP is released.

 

.

 

What's so awful about the 4VEP? Some inaccuracies, maybe, but AWFUL??? Get a grip. It's not that long ago that Southern EMU modellers had NOTHING available RTR. Now we have the 4CEP, 2EPB, 2BIL and soon a 2HAL. Don't forget the "awful" 4VEP. I consider myself lucky, but then I'm never in a rush to find fault with every new release. If I feel the need to detail or improve something, I do - it's called "modelling"...  If you can do better, scratchbuild one. I couldn't scratchbuild one, so I consider myself very very grateful for what we now have... Some people are just way too critical or fussy or both. Apologies - rant over. My dinner's ready... maybe I'm just hungry.

Edited by Pete_S
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The old Hornby models have long since paid the cost of development, so are relatively inexpensive for Hornby to make.

 

A new model requires the new tooling, which is expensive.

 

My opinion, part of the problem (and this is not necessarily unique to overhead models) is the lack of consistent range of models to allow one to model a given area.  Great if someone comes out with a new, accurate class 86/87, but it limits your options if era appropriate EMU's aren't offered as well.

 

Bachmann have seemed to take a scattered approach to overhead models with the class 85 & 350 which can't be used together, which to me helped to encourage poor sales.  They might have had better success choosing 2 models that could be used together in a layout, convincing more modellers that overhead modelling is viable. 

 

So the tooling for ACs does pay off.

Interested to know how the manufacturers can predict ACs will sell badly when Bachmann have only one super detailed example of a loco not in service any longer and nothing else. They can't be making good predictions on the curent badly tooled models. I'm not claiming it's not possible to make an accurate prediction but simply curious on the methodology in this particular case.

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On the Hornby website, looking at the details of some of the new locomotives it appears that either the bodies or boilers are diecast; is this the radical change hinted at? The ghost of Binns Road rides again!

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I don't doubt your sources, Chris, but I can't help but agree with GordonC. I find it staggering and inexplicable that the Sarah Siddons Met Bo-Bo (for example) is considered likely to be a better seller than a new 87 or 90, especially taking into account all the possible livery variations as Gordon says. I have already bought a couple of Heljan 86s, a Bachmann 85 and a couple of Hornby InterCity Mk 3 DVTs even though I have no intention of putting up catenary. I intend to run them just for fun, like many modellers I suspect. Are there really not enough modellers out there without catenary who would do the same? Are people happier to ignore the lack of a third rail than the absence of catenary?

It's a matter of volume. Sarah Siddons is being done by Heljan, who have carved themselves a niche for low-volume production of niche prototypes. They aren't in the same market as Hornby in terms of volume sales. Sarah ISN'T anticipated as a BETTER SELLER than a Hornby 87 or 90. You're not comparing like with like. In terms of sales volumes, you have Hornby and to a somewhat lesser extent Bachmann. The likes of Heljan and Dapol work on much smaller volumes and generally higher end prices. Hornby would also look at the existing sales of the 90 and 87 and ask 'has the demand been satisfied by the existing models or is there a market for something newer and much more expensive?' Remember: 1 the BULK of Hornby's market is still in the trainset/budget/toyshop end of the market. 2 Steam outline models still constitute the lion's share of their sales. As I said before, do you invest your hard-earned in a sure-fire winner or in something where you might or might not get lucky and actually please a much smaller but more demanding group of customers? You have to ask yourself, how would YOU actually invest your £100,000 to get the best return and then - would you be able to justify your decision to your bank manager who knows nothing about trains but will look at your past record of success or failure.

CHRIS LEIGH

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Everyone's excited now, but this time next year you'll all be groaning because nothings been delivered, and 'where are all the Hornby models' threads will proliferate, followed six months late by 'its the wrong shape/colour/number of spokes/got moulded handrail' threads cursing Hornby to the rafters.

 

So - remember the thrill you had today,

 

and relax,

 

and breathe.... 

 

:D

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So the tooling for ACs does pay off.

Interested to know how the manufacturers can predict ACs will sell badly when Bachmann have only one super detailed example of a loco not in service any longer and nothing else. They can't be making good predictions on the curent badly tooled models. I'm not claiming it's not possible to make an accurate prediction but simply curious on the methodology in this particular case.

Don't forget that Bachmann have various N gauge ACs in their range and not just the 85.

 

Andi

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However some aspects of their programme worry me to be honest with a further raft of Western 8 coupled tanks coming onto the market very quickly after the initial release - do they seriously believe that a lot of folk didn't buy because of those moulded smokebox door handles; I'm not objecting to this excellent change but it doesn't affect me, I have mine (will they do smokebox doors as a separate part I wonder?).   And a quick rush into further 2BIL variants although again I suspect production in limited numbers which would surely be a sensible way of going about it? While presumably initial 2 HAL production will aim for a relatively large first batch?

 

What will I be buying - the BR version of the CCT and possibly 'Caerphilly Castle', if it is an NRM model

Mike,

 

As you might imagine, I'm pretty thrilled to see so many items in a "GREAT WESTERN" livery and I'm quite tickled to see another Castle. As a limited edition, I certainly hope they employ the latest tooling, and this time we will be counting spokes ahead of time. There are quite a lot of west country-centric wagons too!  

 

The clerestory coaches, even though imperfect and a bit long in the tooth do look nice with paint applied by the latest and greatest tampo printers.

 

The 8-coupled tanks surprised me too. I will be tempted. Hopefully quality control is improving as their new suppliers garner experience. 

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A 2HAL and a blue 2BIL and some other interesting items. I like the idea of DCC sound Railroad models as this may well entice more younger modellers to our hobby.

 

Nigel

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I am not a Hornby basher but…  The WWI troop train pack has GWR coaches in chocolate and cream.  GWR coaches went all-over brown from 1908, and then crimson lake from 1912-22 when the original livery was restored.  Until war broke out the railway was very quick at repainting and maintaining its corporate image, and so please don't issue the coaches in that livery!

Yes, I noticed that too. The Saint also appears to be in unlined green with no crest, though that livery seems quite plausible.

 

Honestly I'd rather have the coaches in chocolate and cream - and ignore their supposed "commemorative" aspect. They can run behind my Bachmann City that way... 

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.

 

Andy,

 

Any idea what the new scale / Gauge item(s) are ?

 

.

Who said there were any?

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