Train spotting at Finsbury Square

[Chas Levin]

On 08/12/2020 at 22:51, 31A said:

 

Thank you Chas, glad you like it!

 

The signal is a bit fictitious really, I couldn't find many drawings that helped (one or two drawings of LMS colour lights in the Model Railway Constructor in 1972 gave some clues), and I also referred to pictures of Eastern Region structures.

 

The retaining walls themselves are just Hornby Skaledale products, quite heavily weathered; like you, I've spent hours looking out of windows at them so I hope they're something like OK!  I couldn't really disguise the joins, and some of the brickwork is probably a bit simplified, but they are at the back of the layout and in reality those things aren't too obvious.

 

I must admit I wasn't aware of the CR Signals range, they do look good.  I did briefly consider making them as working signals and thought there were searchlight heads in the Eckon / Berko range but that doesn't seem to be the case.  It might not be impossible to replace the signal heads on my model with working ones as the dummies I made are bolted to the gantry rather than soldered, but I'd have to get it off the wall first, and running wires to the signals wouldn't be straightforward.  One possibility might be some more cable runs along the wall, this time using actual functioning wires!  But as the signals are really only viewed from the side or behind I don't think it's worth the bother.  A lot of colour light signals (and other lights) on model railways are too bright I think; in reality it wasn't always easy to see the aspect of older colour lights unless you were looking at them more or less from the driver's point of view.

 

 

I have a few pictures of early searchlights in some books which is what I was going on and I'd say they look excellent! And I hadn't recognised the Skaledale wall origins because of the weathering - which is surely a very good recommendation for your weathering too .

 

Wiring difficulties may well be awkward, I have similar obstructional issues in places, always a pain when you want to install something electrical. The real railways just requisition some more money and drill / blast / excavate / bulldoze things anyway: they have no idea how difficult it is running an actual model railway .

 

And yes, I entirely agree about many model light signals being far too bright... but I can't helping loving them just the same!! The CR Signals ones (& just to be clear, I have no connection, just a pleased customer!) have a particularly delicious looking shade of green. And of course you can precisely vary the brightness by altering the in-line resistance.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Chas Levin

[Clive Mortimore]

18 hours ago, 31A said:

 

Thank you Chas, glad you like it!

 

The signal is a bit fictitious really, I couldn't find many drawings that helped (one or two drawings of LMS colour lights in the Model Railway Constructor in 1972 gave some clues), and I also referred to pictures of Eastern Region structures.

 

The retaining walls themselves are just Hornby Skaledale products, quite heavily weathered; like you, I've spent hours looking out of windows at them so I hope they're something like OK!  I couldn't really disguise the joins, and some of the brickwork is probably a bit simplified, but they are at the back of the layout and in reality those things aren't too obvious.

 

I must admit I wasn't aware of the CR Signals range, they do look good.  I did briefly consider making them as working signals and thought there were searchlight heads in the Eckon / Berko range but that doesn't seem to be the case.  It might not be impossible to replace the signal heads on my model with working ones as the dummies I made are bolted to the gantry rather than soldered, but I'd have to get it off the wall first, and running wires to the signals wouldn't be straightforward.  One possibility might be some more cable runs along the wall, this time using actual functioning wires!  But as the signals are really only viewed from the side or behind I don't think it's worth the bother.  A lot of colour light signals (and other lights) on model railways are too bright I think; in reality it wasn't always easy to see the aspect of older colour lights unless you were looking at them more or less from the driver's point of view.

 

 

On Sheff Ex from the control panel I can only see the aspects of four signals all the other twenty have their backs to me, so why did I get them all working? 

[Oldddudders]

1 hour ago, Clive Mortimore said:

On Sheff Ex from the control panel I can only see the aspects of four signals all the other twenty have their backs to me, so why did I get them all working? 

So your little plastic drivers can be reassured that the road ahead is truly clear!

[lezz01]

......and they don't have to keep filling out all the SPAD forms.

Regards Lez.

[Oldddudders]

1 minute ago, lezz01 said:

......and they don't have to keep filling out all the SPAD forms.

Regards Lez.

Thus helping save the planet. Bless. 

[Clive Mortimore]

12 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

So your little plastic drivers can be reassured that the road ahead is truly clear!

They can should the signalman remember to change the colour of the aspects.

[lezz01]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

Thus helping save the planet. Bless. 

Double win.

Regards Lez.

[Chas Levin]

On 09/12/2020 at 17:20, Clive Mortimore said:

On Sheff Ex from the control panel I can only see the aspects of four signals all the other twenty have their backs to me, so why did I get them all working? 

So you can see them when you leave the control panel and walk round, surely ?

I have the same situation - I can't see all the working signals from my controller, but I look at the backs of the signals I can;t see and know they're on and then go and see them working every so often...

[Clive Mortimore]

1 hour ago, Chas Levin said:

So you can see them when you leave the control panel and walk round, surely ?

I have the same situation - I can't see all the working signals from my controller, but I look at the backs of the signals I can;t see and know they're on and then go and see them working every so often...

Hi Chas

 

When operating the layout by myself I only walk around to uncouple locos at the buffer stops and to change locos in the fuddle yards. The signalman at the control panel is a bit like the real signalman would be as the location is ideal to observe the movements of the trains and to limit the about of engineering to make thing work but sadly not to see the aspects of the signal as the driver would.

 

When I have (if ever again) visitors they get given a hand held controller so they are able to move about within the limits of the cable length and see the signals controlling their train. So yes they are worth making them work.

[Chas Levin]

57 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Hi Chas

 

When operating the layout by myself I only walk around to uncouple locos at the buffer stops and to change locos in the fuddle yards. The signalman at the control panel is a bit like the real signalman would be as the location is ideal to observe the movements of the trains and to limit the about of engineering to make thing work but sadly not to see the aspects of the signal as the driver would.

 

When I have (if ever again) visitors they get given a hand held controller so they are able to move about within the limits of the cable length and see the signals controlling their train. So yes they are worth making them work.

Hi Clive, that makes sense! My layout is probably quite a bit smaller and also, it has a circuit section where a train can run round continuously, so I can leave the controller and walk round to admire changing signals (I use Heathcote infrared sensors and boards).

I know what you mean about visitors being but a distant memory - strange times.

[31A]

A recent arrival has been the new Oxford Rail N7 69670, with BR "late emblem".  I've got two N7s already and despite a few shortcomings of detail, I like them a lot and they have proved to be reliable and smooth performers, so I was pleased to add a third.

 

 

However the Oxford Rail model represents a right hand drive loco, and 69670 was built with the driver's position on the left, so there were a few things to change.  The body comes apart by removing the four screws underneath; there was also some glue between the cab sides and roof which I was able to break by carefully running a blade between the parts.  The cab roof/spectacle plates moulding then separates from the boiler, and reveals why the cab front spectacles aren't really the right shape for a round topped firebox locomotive.  Inside the cab it's still got a Belpaire firebox!  The backhead itself seems to be another separate moulding and I did think of rounding it off and altering the front spectacles, but decided that would have been a chop too far, so I'll live with it.

 

 

What I did do though, was to remove the vacuum ejector exhaust pipe from the right hand side of the boiler, and prise the whistle moulding away from the cab front.  I then made a new pipe from 1mm brass rod, and drilled holes for it on the left hand side in the smoke box and cab front - on these locos it ran below the handrail.  I made a new slot for the whistle by drilling a hole in the new position and opening it out.

 

On the bunker I added the top and bottom middle lamp irons which seem to have been forgotten, and made a new lamp iron for the smokebox door.  It has a very neatly moulded one, but I wanted one I could hang a lamp on!

 

Inside the cab, I thought about changing the reversing wheel from one side to the other and removed it, but it won't fit on the left hand side as there's no recess in the side tank for it on that side.  So I left it off, and added cab doors from black Plastikard so that at least less of the inside is visible.

 

 

From then on it was really just a case of putting it all back together again.  The painted 'embellishments' seem to have been characteristic of Stratford N7s outbased at Enfield Town and allocated to regular crews, and they're neatly done so I've left them alone although the white painted chimney top was a bit too much to swallow!  I particularly like the printed maker's plate and the red lining on the Westinghouse pump cylinders.  So I just did some light weathering on the smokebox, cab roof, running plate and tank tops, and added some gunge to the wheels and rods.  Coal in the bunker, and a crew in the cab.  Also shortened the couplings!

 

She arrived back at Finsbury Square facing the wrong way round for some reason and needed turning, and the photographer was able to follow her as she moved around the yard.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[31A]

Season's Greetings from Finsbury Square; I hope everyone is having a good one!

 

Today we are visited by ghosts of Christmases Past:

 

 

 

[lmsforever]

Your latest N7 is far to clean the ones I remember at Chingford and Liverpool St in the fifties were never cleaned plus the footplates were in a mess .Used to get footplate rides around Chingford good fun and the Enfield locos did look good with the embellishments ,Wood St shed was not interested in them.Like your layout good to see eastern steam.

[31A]

32 minutes ago, lmsforever said:

Your latest N7 is far to clean the ones I remember at Chingford and Liverpool St in the fifties were never cleaned plus the footplates were in a mess .Used to get footplate rides around Chingford good fun and the Enfield locos did look good with the embellishments ,Wood St shed was not interested in them.Like your layout good to see eastern steam.

 

Thank you, glad you like it! I have two N7s that are quite mucky.  I intended to muck up the latest one as well but the 'embellishments' grew on me and I remembered a man I used to meet sometimes at work on the railway who had been an Enfield Town fireman and told me how the crews tried to outdo each other with the condition of their regular engines.  Having looked at a lot of pictures of them, I could see what he meant and decided to leave it like that as a tribute to him and them.  It has however gone into the Station Pilot Link rather than the Inner Suburban Link!

 

[31A]

I've had a couple of Hornby A4s for years and they're very nice models, probably the best RTR and far better than I could hope to build from a kit.  Nevertheless the shape of the cylinder covers has always bugged me, being a straight drop from the 'running plate' down, rather than curving under following the shape of the actual cylinders themselves.  I can understand why the model has been made like that, but I've had some ideas rattling around in my head as to how things could be improved.  A little while ago thanks to my friend @John of York I was able to come by another, and whilst helping to run his layout at the last Hull Show we discussed ways of improving it.

 

John had already made a start by changing its identity to 60013 "Dominion of New Zealand", and making a NZGR whistle for it.

 

For my part, I scribed round the shape of the cylinder covers onto some sheet brass, and cut out new ones.  This produces some very strangely shaped pieces of metal!

 

 

I then scribed the vertical 'panel lines', and curved the bottom edges round something suitable, to follow the radius of the cylinders - I used the handle of a suitable pin vice, held in the vice.  I also made new cylinder fronts (8mm dia. discs of 20 thou black plastikard) as the moulded ones look too small.  On the bottom of the cylinder covers, I have added drain cock pipes from copper wire.

 

 

The new brass covers are glued to the faces of the existing cylinders, on the loco's chassis, with spacers of 30 thou plastic to bring them out to the width of the running plate.

 

 

I then cut away the moulded cylinder covers from the loco's body, and made recesses on the sides of the 'running plate' the depth of the thickness of the brass used to make the new ones.  So when the body and chassis are united, the new cylinder covers sit alongside the running plate, but are not fixed to it.

 

 

In the process, some of the lamp irons had got knocked off so I made a complete set of new ones from N/S strip.

 

Then looking at the tender, 60013 had one of the tenders that was fitted experimentally with roller bearings - the covers of these were made from brass discs from the MSE upper quadrant semaphore signal components etch!  I also made new lamp irons for the tender, so that I'll be able to drop headlamps onto them as required.

 

 

Then I turned to the bogie.  The model has an AWS protector plate below the buffer beam, so I thought I'd have a go at making an AWS Receiver.  First I fretted out the front of the bogie; if nothing else, this makes it look less 'heavy', and I'd done this before.  What I'd not done before was knock off one of the guard irons, so I replaced both of them with new ones from scrap brass.  I also used scrap brass to make some sort of representation of the ironwork that supports the AWS Receiver; the Receiver itself is from a Romford crank pin retainer.

 

 

On the body shell, I added the conduit for the AWS along the running plate on the Driver's side; this also helps to hide the top of the new cylinder cover, on this side.

 

 

Then some light weathering; mainly to the frames, wheels and rods, and coal and some crew on the footplate.

 

Some pictures of the finished thing; I'm pretty pleased with how it's turned out and I think makes a big improvement to the appearance of the Hornby model, particularly from the front.  Just have to work up enthusiasm to do it again with the other two!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Smashing job - it makes a surprisingly big difference to the already good Hornby model.

[lezz01]

I reckon it's top notch Steve.

Regards Lez.

[Wheatley]

That is neat. It bugs me too but I've never got around to fixing it. "Sir Nigel Gresley" (ex-Woodcock) has been looking rather forlorn since I pinched its nameplates, double chimney and half the tender for Mrs W's SNG. 

[31A]

1 hour ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

Smashing job - it makes a surprisingly big difference to the already good Hornby model.

 

Thanks Doc, glad you like it.  I was surprised what a big difference it did make once I'd done it!

 

[31A]

54 minutes ago, Wheatley said:

That is neat. It bugs me too but I've never got around to fixing it. "Sir Nigel Gresley" (ex-Woodcock) has been looking rather forlorn since I pinched its nameplates, double chimney and half the tender for Mrs W's SNG. 

 

Thank you!  It was easier than I expected once I'd made a start.  The difficult bit was shaping the strange bits of brass, which got stranger when I came to curve them.

 

[Chas Levin]

5 hours ago, 31A said:

I've had a couple of Hornby A4s for years and they're very nice models, probably the best RTR and far better than I could hope to build from a kit.  Nevertheless the shape of the cylinder covers has always bugged me, being a straight drop from the 'running plate' down, rather than curving under following the shape of the actual cylinders themselves.  I can understand why the model has been made like that, but I've had some ideas rattling around in my head as to how things could be improved.  A little while ago thanks to my friend @John of York I was able to come by another, and whilst helping to run his layout at the last Hull Show we discussed ways of improving it.

 

John had already made a start by changing its identity to 60013 "Dominion of New Zealand", and making a NZGR whistle for it.

 

For my part, I scribed round the shape of the cylinder covers onto some sheet brass, and cut out new ones.  This produces some very strangely shaped pieces of metal!

 

 

I then scribed the vertical 'panel lines', and curved the bottom edges round something suitable, to follow the radius of the cylinders - I used the handle of a suitable pin vice, held in the vice.  I also made new cylinder fronts (8mm dia. discs of 20 thou black plastikard) as the moulded ones look too small.  On the bottom of the cylinder covers, I have added drain cock pipes from copper wire.

 

 

The new brass covers are glued to the faces of the existing cylinders, on the loco's chassis, with spacers of 30 thou plastic to bring them out to the width of the running plate.

 

 

I then cut away the moulded cylinder covers from the loco's body, and made recesses on the sides of the 'running plate' the depth of the thickness of the brass used to make the new ones.  So when the body and chassis are united, the new cylinder covers sit alongside the running plate, but are not fixed to it.

 

 

In the process, some of the lamp irons had got knocked off so I made a complete set of new ones from N/S strip.

 

Then looking at the tender, 60013 had one of the tenders that was fitted experimentally with roller bearings - the covers of these were made from brass discs from the MSE upper quadrant semaphore signal components etch!  I also made new lamp irons for the tender, so that I'll be able to drop headlamps onto them as required.

 

 

Then I turned to the bogie.  The model has an AWS protector plate below the buffer beam, so I thought I'd have a go at making an AWS Receiver.  First I fretted out the front of the bogie; if nothing else, this makes it look less 'heavy', and I'd done this before.  What I'd not done before was knock off one of the guard irons, so I replaced both of them with new ones from scrap brass.  I also used scrap brass to make some sort of representation of the ironwork that supports the AWS Receiver; the Receiver itself is from a Romford crank pin retainer.

 

 

On the body shell, I added the conduit for the AWS along the running plate on the Driver's side; this also helps to hide the top of the new cylinder cover, on this side.

 

 

Then some light weathering; mainly to the frames, wheels and rods, and coal and some crew on the footplate.

 

Some pictures of the finished thing; I'm pretty pleased with how it's turned out and I think makes a big improvement to the appearance of the Hornby model, particularly from the front.  Just have to work up enthusiasm to do it again with the other two!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Lovely job Steve; the Hornby A4s are absolutely superb, but attending to those small points that can still be improved makes something really special...

[30368]

19 hours ago, 31A said:

I've had a couple of Hornby A4s for years and they're very nice models, probably the best RTR and far better than I could hope to build from a kit.  Nevertheless the shape of the cylinder covers has always bugged me, being a straight drop from the 'running plate' down, rather than curving under following the shape of the actual cylinders themselves.

 

Hi Steve,

 

Just discovered this thread - very interesting and full of useful info.

 

I agree with you regarding the Hornby A3. Last year I purchased 60026 Miles Beevor which is indeed a fine model but for me the moulded outside cylinder cover was too flat. I am a great advocate of using very thin brass sheet to either replace or cover over poor moulding. In the A4's case though I decided to gently reprofile the moulding to create a greater tumblehome and then added a sheet end cover to the cylinders to further emphasis the curve. Because the top of the running plate is so finely modelled I thought that covering the cylinder with brass sheet may not appear quite right. I guess both approaches are valid.

 

 

Some really great modelling on the thread which I shall follow.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[31A]

1 hour ago, 30368 said:

 

Hi Steve,

 

Just discovered this thread - very interesting and full of useful info.

 

I agree with you regarding the Hornby A3. Last year I purchased 60026 Miles Beevor which is indeed a fine model but for me the moulded outside cylinder cover was too flat. I am a great advocate of using very thin brass sheet to either replace or cover over poor moulding. In the A4's case though I decided to gently reprofile the moulding to create a greater tumblehome and then added a sheet end cover to the cylinders to further emphasis the curve. Because the top of the running plate is so finely modelled I thought that covering the cylinder with brass sheet may not appear quite right. I guess both approaches are valid.

 

 

Some really great modelling on the thread which I shall follow.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

Thank you Richard, glad you like what you've read!

 

Great minds think alike?  I tried modifying the first Hornby A4 that I got (way back when they first came out) along similar lines to the way you've done it.

 

 

 

I thickened the flat cylinder covers on the rear with plasticard, and filed off as much of the actual cylinders as I dared whilst still leaving enough plastic to hold the slide bars etc.  Then filed the bottom of the cylinder covers to the curved profile.  I think in order that the front cylinder ends remained circular, I cut them off and stuck them to the body.  This however meant there wasn't really anywhere to fix the drain cocks!  I scribed in the panel lines on the cylinder covers and reinstated the rivets (bolt heads?) using plasticard cubes.  But I was never happy with it really, I didn't think it was possible to get enough of a curve under whilst leaving enough of the cylinders in place to be functional.

 

I think what I've done this time captures the shape of the cylinders better, and a by product is that the visible edges of the brass sheet look better than the moulded plastic.  The main down side is the lack of rivet / bolt detail on the new sides, but there are various ways this could be added.  I must admit I did wonder how it would look where the new brass side met the plastic running plate, especially as it isn't actually fixed to it, but it's worked out better than I expected.  In doing the carving, I found that the parts of the running plate surface with the diagonal treads on are actually separate mouldings, so there's a 'join line' there already for at least that part of the running plate.

 

Is that a Brassmasters detailing kit you've used to make the front frame detail etc. on your A4?  It looks very good.  I have used one for an A3, I found it quite fiddly, and couldn't use all the bits, but nevertheless worthwhile; I was thinking of getting one for an A4.

 

[30368]

1 hour ago, 31A said:

Is that a Brassmasters detailing kit you've used to make the front frame detail etc. on your A4?  

 

Hi Steve,

 

Yes I did use the Brassmaster A4 detail etch, I agree they are fiddly but worth the effort. I scratch built the rocking lever(s) for the inside cylinder.

 

Keep up the good work - a really good layout too. I am an infant as far as layouts are concerned working on my first! Based on 70D Basingstoke of childhood memories and all that! I usually model the SR but who can resist the splendour of the LNER and Mr. Gresley's masterpieces?

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

 

[31A]

And now for something completely different, as someone once said.

 

A chance exchange of PMs with @gwrrob about road vehicles on railway wagons turned my thoughts to this, that had been in my stash for years (yes they did used to sell them unpainted!):

 

 

I've already got a couple on the layout but hadn't got any that represented the version built by the LMS as Vacuum Fitted.  So I found another one of the good old Parkside PA16 underframe kits in the Stores, and set about doing this:

 

 

Apart from the Parkside solebar mouldings, the headstocks are from Evergreen 1/8" Channel, buffers from Lanarkshire Model Supplies and other bits from bits & pieces.  The plastic of the body didn't seem to like Mek Pak very much, but EMA Plastic Weld worked OK.

 

I'd had an Oxford Diecast Fordson tractor for years; I bought it intending to use it as a wagon load but had always thought it look a bit toy like in the engine department, being a solid block.  Then I remembered the picture in Part One of Geoff Kent's wagon building trilogy, which shows a tractor on a wagon with a tarpaulin over its bonnet, so I did this:

 

 

 

It not being the weather for painting by aerosol in the back yard, I painted this one in the old fashioned way by brush.  For the BR Brown, I used Humbrol 100 Red/brown, which I hadn't used before.  I thought it was a bit bright at first but looks better now weathered.  Transfers were found on various Modelmasters sheets; the running nimbler is in the right series although I didn't have a picture of that exact wagon.