A fire at a show?

[stivesnick]

Although there is already a topic for the Northampton show today 19th July - what happened today deserves a wider audience and discussion.

 

During my visit this afternoon to the show being held at a at local school, the fire alarm went off......

 

Guess what - nothing much happened. There was no general move towards the exits, in fact new members of the public were still being admitted. I heard a local club member, saying, "don't worry, there will be a public address announcement". Looking around, I could not see any sign of a loudspeaker system. I left the building but was in a small minority. This turned out to be a false alarm, but next time it might not be.

 

It begs the question, what were the organisers told about fire procedure and who was meant to be in charge? I suspect that this might be a common situation, when clubs hire out a building and there is no one from the building present.

 

If you are arranging a show, please make sure you know what the procedure is and ensure that club members and stewards know as well.

 

Regards

 

 

Nick

 

 

 

 

[77philg]

I was at DEMU ex afew years ago when the fire alarm went off ( Burton Town Hall).The building was rapidly cleared , Fire brigade  attended, Hall was cleared before they arrived Turned out to be a false alarm .Excellent

[johnb]

Had this once at a show I was running, Fire Alarm!!! Everyone was quietly shepherded out, until the all clear.

 

Many shows do have clear instructions to their stewards and exhibitors, on the procedures that MUST be CALMLY carried out. Very basically that's "Everyone OUT" and no one allowed back in until authorised by a designated person. That person liases with the hall staff, fire brigade or whoever is allowed to give the All Clear. That can and does vary depending on the hall rules/procedures.

 

John

[Barry O]

As part of our Risk Assessment for our show in Leeds it has been made clear to us that evacuation of the building will be co-ordinated via the school staff. If  a fire alarm goes off it has to be taken very seriously.

 

baz

[7013]

I was at said show, and yes a lot of people looked around for guidance. Quite a few people moved out of the building into a quadrangle and some left via the main entrance, whilst some traders and operators sat tight.

I fairness to Northampton MRC they did establish and announce (not via a PA though) that it was a faulty alarm quite quickly. However it is an important consideration at an exhibition especially one that is spread out over several rooms how to evacuate the building safely .

 

As an aside the show was very good with a good balance of layouts and traders.

[Gwiwer]

Having stewarded at one quite large show a few years ago I can assure everyone that on the occasion of that event we were briefed by the management of the venue as to fire drill, the alarm tone we might hear and procedures required and we were to be aware - no matter where we were in the venue - of the nearest emergency exit.  There was a PA system but we were advised that we should not rely upon it for advice as in an emergency there might be no operator available or the base station might be involved in a fire.  If the alarm sounded we were to calmly and swiftly instruct everyone to leave by the nearest exit and assemble at a designated location outside.  

 

For what it's worth and having regard to the opportunity such emergencies provide for untoward activities we were also required to station a steward et every exit at all times (not just for evacuations) to cover the possibility of the light-fingered brigade making off with items they were not entitled to.

 

No alarm occurred and to my knowledge no-one commented upon loss of any property or stock either.  

[Kenton]

I always find it scandalous at the frequent attitude of "the public" and often the "management" at responding to fire alarms.

 

All fire alarms - without exception - should be treated as "for real" and the building should be evacuated quickly and in as calm a manner as possible. You should never re-enter a building until advised it is safe to do so by attending fire crew.

 

You are potentially putting your life, the lives of others and quite possibly the fire fighters at risk. (They will enter a burning building to attempt to rescue any person believed to be in the property).

 

Remember the alarm does not mean there is a fire you can see. It could be smoke or even a chemical spillage (chlorine in leisure centres), gas release or any hazard.

 

Hear the alarm - get out.

[Arthur]

There's been much research to show that when an alarm goes off, people just mill around, not sure what to do, waiting to be told by some one 'in authority'. In any public space, somebody, or bodies, needs to be tasked with leading the evacuation in the event if an emergency.

 

I saw a CCTV clip a while back. Two people queuing to pay at an off licence. Behind them some scrote leans into the open door and sets light to a tall cardboard display figure. The shop assistant and customer being served are so engrossed in their transaction they are oblivious to the flames at the door. The second customer, sees it but rather than shouting out 'FIRE', he shuffles about uncomfortably. The very epitome of the diffident, polite, Englishman. "Er..sorry to interrupt, I can see you're busy.....but......er....I think you should.....oh, perhaps it can wait.....maybe, no.......

 

It was both frightening and hilarious.

 

The point being, even when danger is imminent and obvious, people can act in very bizarre and unpredictable ways.

[Griffin Road]

I was at DEMU ex afew years ago when the fire alarm went off ( Burton Town Hall).The building was rapidly cleared , Fire brigade attended, Hall was cleared before they arrived Turned out to be a false alarm .Excellent

I remember that day very clearly . I think we were all glad to get an excuse to go outside due to the intense heat inside the town hall . We had a nice break outside with the usual entertainment from Charlie petty !

 

Mike b

[Crofton]

I am surprised with some of the comments. We hold our show in a local college and have to give exhibitors/traders specific written instructions as to their actions in the case of an alarm going off. These instructions are "vetted" by the College's H&S team prior to each exhibition. The Club have to provide stewards wearing yellow surcoats to identify themselves and to take the lead with the Exhibition Manager (also wearing a surcoat) in clearing the building to a designated muster point. No one is allowed back into the building until cleared by the Fire Service. This should be common practice particularly in an educational establishment.

Chris

[davefrk]

Way back in the days of smoking everywhere a friend and I were helping out at the Birtley show on Tyneside. A shout went up that there was a fire in the ladies toilet. Now with the door being open the smoke was pouring out so the stewards started getting everyone out, My mate who was a police officer and myself as an engineer grabbed a couple of fire extinquishers and tackled the 'blaze'. Someone had either dropped a cigarette in the waste paper towel bin or had purposely set it alight. The plastic bin and the full bin liner on the floor were well alight with the flames starting to lick the ceiling but the extinquishers doused the flames and we got out quickly just as the fire brigade arrived. We got a thank you from the brigade after being questioned about our experience of tackling fires, both of us had had training in the use of extinquishers.

So, maybe exhibition managers should make sure there is a system in place to help the public exit the building and a couple of stewards who have extinquisher training to tackle small fires before they grow into big fires. No-one should put themselves in danger though, assess the situation, check the escape route, can the correct extinquisher put the fire out. But, don't endanger oneself. That is what we were taught.

 

Dave.

[hayfield]

The CMRA show in St Albans instructs the stewards before each day what to do if the fire alarm goes off.

 

And at the Watford Finescale show we had an alarm go off 2 years ago, Everyone left quickly, we kept security on both doors whilst the alarm was investigated, then let traders and exhibitors back in first when they were ready we reopened the show

 

At work we have to test the alarm weekly, and have "timed" evacuation drills six monthly 

 

As Kenton says treat every alarm as if its a fire, you never know the next one may be

[mike morley]

We used to have a health and safety pedant at work who insisted on testing every alarm in the building at least twice a day.  He and they were such thorough nuisances that we quickly learned to ignore both with the result that, as more than one person observed on more than one occasion, if ever there was a real alarm we would probably all ignore it. 

 

I was at the Northampton exhibition mentioned in the OP when the alarm went off and, true to form, I ignored it.

[jonhall]

And if you are show organisers you probably need a clearly defined re-entry plan, first the stewards, then the exhibitors and traders and only once they are happily behind their exhibits let the public in.

 

Jon

[Sam Moss]

At work we have two tone fire alarms. Single tone means the alarm has been raised in another hangar on site, two tone wailing means its been raised in the hangar you're in. People who've been there 30 years get confused by what they mean despite it being the same for years. Regarding fire extinguisher training, I had to do it when I started my apprenticeship in 2009, however current company guidelines from what we can gather now is leave it and get out, don't attempt to tackle anything, just leave it to the fire brigade.

[wagonbasher]

some advise to exhibition managers, if the fire alarms do go off in your venue, yes... Get everyone out and don't be afraid to call the fire brigade. there is no charge, they won't hit you with a massive bill because it turned out to be a false alarm.

 

 

Kettle, steam, alarm, evacuation and fire brigade. Stafford.

 

 

Andy

[stivesnick]

Thanks for all your comments.

 

I have had more views and responses on this post than any of my modelling posts - not sure what that means.

 

An attempt to provide a summary of the points raised plus some of my own to help exhibition organisers:

 

1.  Find out how the fire alarm works, alarms or voice messages, and where the panel is and how to silence an alarm.
2. Check if the building owner will be present all day and have an emergency contact number
3. Ensure stands do not obstruct exits
4. Ensure stewards and stands know the procedure
5. For exhibitions with many rooms, ie schools, ensure there is a steward covering a set of rooms
6. If the alarm goes off - priority to get public out followed by exhibitors and stewards
7. Only try to tackle fire if trained
8. Stewards need to check everyone is out
9. Call 999
10. Don't let people back in until all clear
11. If false alarm - stewards in first, then exhibitors and finally public

 

Hope this is helpful and thanks again for your comments

[Kenton]

 

a couple of stewards who have extinguisher training to tackle small fires before they grow into big fires. No-one should put themselves in danger though, assess the situation, check the escape route, can the correct extinguisher put the fire out. But, don't endanger oneself. That is what we were taught.

 

I note your emphasis of the word "small" but I think you will find that the Fire Brigade will tell you that there is no such thing.

 

Although training in the use of an extinguisher may be seen as helpful, it has the potential of lulling the user into the belief that they can tackle the fire. All to often the even the trained user uses the wrong extinguisher for the fire or has little idea of how ineffective most extinguishers are. Even a very small fire can turn into a very dangerous conflagration in seconds potentially with explosive speed as additional fuel (fresh air) reaches smouldering or actively burning fires.

 

The first priority must always be evacuation and the preservation of life.

 

The value of life is far higher than property - even if the property is your valued layout. Let those who's job it is to fight fires. I have seen too many unpleasant outcomes to advise anyone differently.

 

 

 

I have had more views and responses on this post than any of my modelling posts - not sure what that means.

 

It means that lives are more important than even modelling

[Bernard Lamb]

Unless I have missed it I can see no reference in this thread as to what to do when you have left the building.

At work there was always an assembly point. If you get all the people well away from the building, but within a controlled area, you can then send round a coordinator to find out if any one has friends who are not accounted for. This can never be 100% accurate but it can provide the fire service with information that there are X number of people unaccounted for and that there might well be people still in the building.

Bernard

[Crofton]

You clearly missed my statement about having a "designated muster point"

[LNERandBR]

ah but some people don't know that a 'Muster Point' and 'Assembly Point' are effectively the same thing. A designated place where you go in an emergency.

[hayfield]

Visitors would have no idea about assembly points, staff would and I hope stewards would be well briefed

[PhilJ W]

I remember one fire alarm at work (suspicious package) that caused a lot of problems because some members of staff decided to go to one of the local pubs rather than the assembly area. The alarm was just before lunch but until everybody was accounted for we all had to stay in the assembly area, on a hot and sticky day like today. It took over 2 hours to check that the building was clear, needless to say the miscreants were not very popular.

[TheQ]

As an Ex In Store Technician for Tesco, I was resposible for setting off (and cancelling) the fire alarms for the weekly checks and for the six monthly Evacuation drills whist the staff generally did what they were supposed to, we normally failed because some customer was still sat on the loo. Often  they had to be sheparded out as often the customers tried to keep shopping and also wouldn't leave the trolley in Store.

 I must admit the change from going to fight the fire as I had been taught in the CAA, RAF, GEC, to still being taught to use them, but being told to run away, I found very strange.

I've worked in Electronic establishements all my life except for the couple of years with Tesco , and often a quick squirt with a CO2 and punching the big red button will save a fortunes worth of damage, compared to waiting for the fire brigade to to turn up.

[Gwiwer]

 

 

he change from going to fight the fire ..... to ..... being told to run away, I found very strange.

 

Old habits die hard.

 

I was trained in my railway days to tackle fires with the provided extinguishers and hose reels.  It was a second line of defence, the first always being to call 999 and get the boys out.  On one occasion I had to use that training in anger when the fire alarms went off at Charing Cross and my (subterranean) location started to fill with smoke.  One phone call later I was out the door, extinguishers in both hands, to find nothing more than a rubbish bin alight.  I had that doused several minutes before London's Burning turned up.  Meanwhile the evacuation at platform level was under way .....

 

As a coach / bus driver I was twice on the scene of a car alight before any other help but in both cases it was already too far gone for the small vehicle extinguisher to be of use; instead I used the bus as a barrier to keep other traffic clear.

 

Now as a workplace fire warden I am charged with the responsibility of responding to any alarm and making the decision on whether to evacuate the building.  It is of course supplied with extinguishers but we are told not to attempt using them as it may divert our attention from the preservation of human life.

 

My instinct is still to get the brigade out, get the people out then get my extinguisher out .........