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Andy Y

Hattons announce 14xx / 48xx / 58xx

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There is a picture somewhere of on hauling two 28xx and a 47xx off to scrap. This was on the flat Sharpness line and the wee 14xx was also hauling the tenders and a couple of BR vans. Don't try this at home folks.

Yes, 1445, hauling 4701, 2842 and 2852 (the vans were BR brake vans), 20th July 1964.Taken by well-known local photographer Ben Ashworth.

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Yes, 1445, hauling 4701, 2842 and 2852 (the vans were BR brake vans), 20th July 1964.Taken by well-known local photographer Ben Ashworth.

 

I have seen this photo in a book (title of which I can't remember), the caption I think said that the loco "struggled" with this load (or words to that effect)!! Must have been quite a noise!!

 

For those interested there was a semi-professional film made on the last day of the Wallingford branch passenger services. It features 1444 (as per the Hattons model) pulling a train of six vehicles; 2 x auto trailers and 4 x mainline gangwayed vehicles. I think that two return trips were made along the branch with this load. This is obviously not a typical working and I believe that apart from a couple of very short, steep grades the Wallingford branch was (is) relatively easy going. It does show however that these relatively small locomotives could pull a fair load.

 

This film is included in Vol 3 "Western Region Steam in the 1960s" by Geoff Holyoake. Available from DUKE productions (Google it).  This film is also quite interesting from a social history perspective (the dress fashions/styles etc). The rest of the DVD is quite interesting also!!

 

 

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I have seen this photo in a book (title of which I can't remember), the caption I think said that the loco "struggled" with this load (or words to that effect)!! Must have been quite a noise!!

 

For those interested there was a semi-professional film made on the last day of the Wallingford branch passenger services. It features 1444 (as per the Hattons model) pulling a train of six vehicles; 2 x auto trailers and 4 x mainline gangwayed vehicles. I think that two return trips were made along the branch with this load. This is obviously not a typical working and I believe that apart from a couple of very short, steep grades the Wallingford branch was (is) relatively easy going. It does show however that these relatively small locomotives could pull a fair load.

 

This film is included in Vol 3 "Western Region Steam in the 1960s" by Geoff Holyoake. Available from DUKE productions (Google it).  This film is also quite interesting from a social history perspective (the dress fashions/styles etc). The rest of the DVD is quite interesting also!!

 

 

 

I haven't got a 14XX load for the Wallingford branch  (or a 517 load come to that) but the load for a Metro tank was 224 tons in both directions and in most London Division branch line examples I've looked at the 48/14XX was allowed the same load as a Metro soI doubt Wallingford was any different.  Thus 2 trailers and 4x8-wheelers should have been well within its capabilties.

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IMHO the problem with thinking about loads for different locos, especially amongst the smaller ones, is the inherrent non linearity of the BR power classification system

 

e.g. a 14XX is classed 1P with 14000lb T.E.

With 2x 14XXs you would have 28000lb T.E. which is up with a Grange which is classified 5MT

You wouldn't consider 12 coaches behind a Grange as unusual.

 

With 3x 14XXs you would have 42000lb T.E. which is somewhat more than a 9F!

 

Keith

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IMHO the problem with thinking about loads for different locos, especially amongst the smaller ones, is the inherrent non linearity of the BR power classification system

 

e.g. a 14XX is classed 1P with 14000lb T.E.

With 2x 14XXs you would have 28000lb T.E. which is up with a Grange which is classified 5MT

You wouldn't consider 12 coaches behind a Grange as unusual.

 

With 3x 14XXs you would have 42000lb T.E. which is somewhat more than a 9F!

 

Keith

Very interesting, this reminds me of this excellent footage.

https://youtu.be/802G0RfM7qM

Edited by Nelson Jackson
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Yes, 1445, hauling 4701, 2842 and 2852 (the vans were BR brake vans), 20th July 1964.Taken by well-known local photographer Ben Ashworth.

 

I always liked his sensitive and into-the-sun approach.

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Pretty much any loco will haul pretty much any normal load on the level, it is the requirement to haul it to a timetable and clear signals, junctions, and maintain paths for other traffic that is the restriction on scheduling it to do so in a working timetable.  All the same, the spectacle of a 14xx hauling 2 28xx and 47xx must have been pretty impressive!

 

I once worked a train of 10x100ton bogie oil tankers, a dead 1.000 tons trailing, into Uskmouth Power Station with a Western, handed over to their little Peckett 'Uskmouth No 1' for onward transit from the exchange sidings.  My driver asked if 'Uskmouth' needed banking out of the reception road, and was greeted with a snort of derision from the CEGB driver, who promptly took the train in, admittedly slowly but with nary a slip or squeal from his capable little engine...  About 1973/4.

Edited by The Johnster
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I once walked the Wallingford Branch (1969) and do not remember any significant gradient.

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IMHO the problem with thinking about loads for different locos, especially amongst the smaller ones, is the inherrent non linearity of the BR power classification system

 

e.g. a 14XX is classed 1P with 14000lb T.E.

With 2x 14XXs you would have 28000lb T.E. which is up with a Grange which is classified 5MT

You wouldn't consider 12 coaches behind a Grange as unusual.

 

With 3x 14XXs you would have 42000lb T.E. which is somewhat more than a 9F!

 

Keith

 

and more to the matter with 8 coupled wheels, 2 14xx's had more wheels available for adhesion than a grange. though it must be said, tractive effort alone is not the defining capacity of a locomotive to be able to haul a train. Boiler surface area is a much more telling figure, and although I don't have the figures to hand, I suspect one grange has more evaporative surface area than 2 14xx's does. 

 

Paul. 

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and more to the matter with 8 coupled wheels, 2 14xx's had more wheels available for adhesion than a grange. though it must be said, tractive effort alone is not the defining capacity of a locomotive to be able to haul a train. Boiler surface area is a much more telling figure, and although I don't have the figures to hand, I suspect one grange has more evaporative surface area than 2 14xx's does. 

 

Paul. 

Total heating surface of a 14XX is 953 sq ft. A Grange is 2104 sq ft, so only 10% more than 2 times a 14XX

8 wheels of 2x 14XXs have 54t 16c of adhesive weight whereas the 6 wheels of a Grange have 55t 4c

so very similar in both cases.

(source RCTS parts 6 & 8)

 

Keith

Edited by melmerby

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Total heating surface of a 14XX is 953 sq ft. A Grange is 2104 sq ft, so only 10% more than 2 times a 14XX

8 wheels of 2x 14XXs have 54t 16c of adhesive weight whereas the 6 wheels of a Grange have 55t 4c

so very similar in both cases.

(source RCTS parts 6 & 8)

 

Keith

thanks Keith,

 

Certainly in those respects they are very similar. The grange has a much higher boiler pressure, and is superheated, both contributors towards overall power. I suspect IHP and DBHP will also favour the grange. 

Paul. 

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Looks like a great improvement. Thank you for sharing. I will certainly use this method for detailing.

 

Kind regards,

 

Nick.

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I once walked the Wallingford Branch (1969) and do not remember any significant gradient.

I believe there's a short, steep climb into Cholsey & Moulsford station. I rode it once in a Mk1 behind an industrial 0-4-0ST. It was notable for the sound of large cinders bouncing off the coach roof! (CJL)

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I believe there's a short, steep climb into Cholsey & Moulsford station. I rode it once in a Mk1 behind an industrial 0-4-0ST. It was notable for the sound of large cinders bouncing off the coach roof! (CJL)

 

Exactly so.  If you are running light engine with a 350, let alone working a train, you have to open up a little bit as you approach the final stretch round the curve into the platform while going the other way you can shut off as you enter the curve as the loco will still gather speed as it hits the short stretch of falling gradient.

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I stand corrected, and thinking about it the branch does seem to drop away a bit leaving Cholsey and Moulsford as viewed from a train on the main line, which is why you can see so far up it!  I offer the excuse of walking from the Cholsey direction, and hence not being aware of walking uphill.

 

My sister and brother-in-law were living in Wallingford at the time and I had taken the opportunity while visiting to have an afternoon taking photos at Reading; b-in-l had given me a lift into Didcot going in, but I caught an Oxford stopper back from Reading and hoofed it up the branch, a very pleasant stroll on a summer evening!  B-in-l was an electrical engineer specialising in installing switchgear in new power stations and was working at Didcot; his previous contracts had given me trainspotting holidays in Selby, Yorks, where he worked at Drax for 3 years, and prior to that New Romney while the Dungeness plant was being finished off. He was in Selby from '65 to 67, which suited me fine!!!

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4825 leaving Encombe Station pulling the obligatory autocoach (not quite finished hence missing handrail to steps and roof  bend as not fitted...)

Thought I would add this just to show what a smart (well it was before I weathered it) looking model it is when not being viewed close up for inspection!

Mine has the Bachmann 6pin decoder fitted and runs superbly, very smooth and quiet though I will point out that the track needs to be very clean especially at slow speed otherwise it will stall on the slightest dirty section.

post-8925-0-25181400-1488483883_thumb.jpg

Edited by KNP
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4825 leaving Encombe Station pulling the obligatory autocoach (not quite finished hence missing handrail to steps and roof  bend as not fitted...)

Thought I would add this just to show what a smart (well it was before I weathered it) looking model it is when not being viewed close up for inspection!

Mine has the Bachmann 6pin decoder fitted and runs superbly, very smooth and quiet though I will point out that the track needs to be very clean especially at slow speed otherwise it will stall on the slightest dirty section.

Where did you source your Autocoach? Any info most appreciated

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Where did you source your Autocoach? Any info most appreciated

It's an Airfix (later branded GMR) one by the look of it. I think Mainline may also have produced them after their takeover of Airfix. Hornby then took on the moulds after the collapse of Palitoy (owners of Mainline), so it could even be a Hornby one, and they are still produced. All are widely available here, second-hand or new. Considering where you are, new seems a more likely option, I would think. R4790, available for pre-order on Hornby website, so I would think you'd be able to order from an Oz stockist.

Edited by Coppercap

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Where did you source your Autocoach? Any info most appreciated

 

It was a Dapol model bought new way back in 1998 ish....has a price label of £8.70 still on the box!!!! but it has had some major alterations as I have detailed it using the Dart Casting kit DK1 plus a complete interior make over.

Started detailing back then but my then 14xx would never run properly (Airfix one) so this model got packed away until now when the superb Hatton's one came along.

Hornby now make this but there are many available secondhand on the likes of e-bay.

With regard to the detailing I didn't do all the underframe rodding as it would get in the way of the S&W couplings I use.

Still to be finished internally so the roof is just rested on, handrail to side passenger door missing and few auto coupling odds and ends to fit each end once I'm happy it won't foul any coupled up loco's, wagons etc. when running.

 

Kevin

Edited by KNP
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Well done for getting rid of the white roof; I think these look horrible on models and are made even more virulent by overhead lighting.  I know they were white when the vehicle was ex-work, but doubt if that lasted beyond the first overbridge!

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Captain K, as promised some photos of etched plates fitted over the DJM installed plates. My order for 1409 plates from Jackson Evans turned up this morning. I've used 2 part clear epoxy, which I put a small amount on the end of a cocktail stick and applied to the middle of the existing etched plate and allowed it to spread over the etch with the aid of the cocktail stick. I didn't apply glue to the edge of the original plate. The new plate is wider and taller than the fitted plate, so covers the original completely and doesn't seem to show any gap at the edge, at least none that I can see with head worn magnifying glasses. I made a fitting template from the card that Modelmaster attach the plates to, held in place with Tamiya masking tape

 

Jackson Evans plates, do cover a multitude of sins..

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If anyone is wondering how easy it is to remove the cab then I have done it today to fit crew. You can find details and photos on my layout thread page 19, posts 471 & 472

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/58847-much-murkle/page-19&do=findComment&comment=2635574

 

This looked even better in his layout setting.

 

post-126-0-61786100-1488644197_thumb.jpg

 

post-126-0-85559900-1488644224_thumb.jpg

 

post-126-0-06823200-1488644251_thumb.jpg

 

post-126-0-78838900-1488644268_thumb.jpg

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4825 looking a bit travel weary, a few bits still to finish but looking and running superbly.

Now to finish the autocoach......

 

post-8925-0-93874000-1488648311_thumb.jpg

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