Hattons announce 14xx / 48xx / 58xx

[gwrrob]

Plenty of comment on these models on here but they don't half scrub up well with some work and look fabulous in a layout setting.What more can we want.

 

[melmerby]

Plenty of comment on these models on here but they don't half scrub up well with some work and look fabulous in a layout setting.What more can we want.

 

1425 b & w.jpg

I didn't realise the GWR had sepia locos!

 

Keith

[Coppercap]

I didn't realise the GWR had sepia locos!

 

Keith

It was a sepia world back then. Unless you had on your rose-tinted glasses...

[Ian Hargrave]

It was a sepia world back then. Unless you had on your rose-tinted glasses...

As Robin knows,I was raised on sepia and horsehair....GWR coaches of course....

[olivegreen]

… or were (apparently) colour-blind, like Stroudley of the LBSCR !

 

 

Edit:  OK, his 'green' wasn't sepia, but not far off it !

Edited March 6, 2017 by olivegreen

[The Johnster]

When I were a lad, colour hadn't been invented; it were black, white, or grey and that were yer lot, sonny...

 

Chocolate and Cream, Brunswick Green, Crimson Lake, Improved Engine Green; all various shades of grey.  Seriously, that's all there was until about 1964 when Wilson's government blew the Treasury on colour.  Historical fact.

[rembrow]

When I were a lad, colour hadn't been invented; it were black, white, or grey and that were yer lot, sonny...

 

Chocolate and Cream, Brunswick Green, Crimson Lake, Improved Engine Green; all various shades of grey.  Seriously, that's all there was until about 1964 when Wilson's government blew the Treasury on colour.  Historical fact.

 

The much quoted commentary from BBC coverage of a World Snooker championship, back in the day 'For those viewers watching in black and white, the pink ball is just behind the green'.

[melmerby]

The much quoted commentary from BBC coverage of a World Snooker championship, back in the day 'For those viewers watching in black and white, the pink ball is just behind the green'.

There was also a sketch in a comedy show (can't remember which) where the commentator apologises for the loss of colour during a snooker match.

When the colour returns everything is back to normal, green baize, colourful shirts etc, but the balls are still shades of grey!

 

BTW there are some decent pictures of GWR locos in the thirties with "Great Western" insignia in good colour!

 

Keith

[melmerby]

I notice that my colleague's review in Model Rail (April - on sale March 9) lists the driving wheel diameter as 21.5mm.

Mine was fairly rudimentary as I didn't remove anything but was able to get the vernier, more or less, across the tyre.

 

It is still around 3" overscale whatever!

 

Keith

[The Johnster]

When I were a lad, colour hadn't been invented; it were black, white, or grey and that were yer lot, sonny...

 

Chocolate and Cream, Brunswick Green, Crimson Lake, Improved Engine Green; all various shades of grey.  Seriously, that's all there was until about 1964 when Wilson's government blew the Treasury on colour.  Historical fact.

 

Tell kids that today, they don't believe yer...

[railroadbill]

Luxury, luxury, we only 'ad grey....

 

 

 

It were grey western railway...

Edited March 7, 2017 by railroadbill

[Ian Hargrave]

Luxury, luxury, we only 'ad grey....

 

 

 

It were grey western railway...

Which until the dawn of the 1950's or even beyond it most certainly was.

[NHY 581]

There was also a sketch in a comedy show (can't remember which) where the commentator apologises for the loss of colour during a snooker match.

When the colour returns everything is back to normal, green baize, colourful shirts etc, but the balls are still shades of grey!

 

BTW there are some decent pictures of GWR locos in the thirties with "Great Western" insignia in good colour!

 

Keith

" For those of you watching in black and white, the blue is next to the pink............"

[melmerby]

" For those of you watching in black and white, the blue is next to the pink............"

My post was in response to this:

 http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/92852-hattons-announce-14xx-48xx-58xx/page-63&do=findComment&comment=2643157

 

Keith

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Not at first but after running for a few mins at mid speed on a test circle it began to run smoothly. In total I ran it for 30mins at mid speed in each direction plus I oiled, where recommended, both at start and then end of the session...

 That's the effect I would expect, with a multistage gear train it takes a while for the lubricant to get evenly distributed on all the working faces of the gears; no substitute for running at moderate speed in both directions so that it is 'exercised' in all the positions the gears can take up against each other, especially as the wheels shift about to take curvature.

 

 

When I were a lad, colour hadn't been invented; it were black, white, or grey and that were yer lot, sonny...

 

Chocolate and Cream, Brunswick Green, Crimson Lake, Improved Engine Green; all various shades of grey.  Seriously, that's all there was until about 1964 when Wilson's government blew the Treasury on colour.  Historical fact.

 Alternative version on this theme: film could always record colour, but the real world was originally monochrome. (This must be true because we know that the ancient greeks described the sky as a shade of grey, and anyone who has been on a Mediterrean holiday knows that isn't true any more.) The US government spent a fortune getting Walt Disney and others with proven expertise in their domestic film industry to have theatres of combat 'coloured in' during WWII, because it made photographic detection of camouflaged equipment much easier. And that's why most of the WWII colour film of combat operations is of US origin.

[The Johnster]

 That's the effect I would expect, with a multistage gear train it takes a while for the lubricant to get evenly distributed on all the working faces of the gears; no substitute for running at moderate speed in both directions so that it is 'exercised' in all the positions the gears can take up against each other, especially as the wheels shift about to take curvature.

 

 

 Alternative version on this theme: film could always record colour, but the real world was originally monochrome. (This must be true because we know that the ancient greeks described the sky as a shade of grey, and anyone who has been on a Mediterrean holiday knows that isn't true any more.) The US government spent a fortune getting Walt Disney and others with proven expertise in their domestic film industry to have theatres of combat 'coloured in' during WWII, because it made photographic detection of camouflaged equipment much easier. And that's why most of the WWII colour film of combat operations is of US origin.

 

 

 

Exactly; one of the reasons Wilson broke the treasury in '64 was the need to retropaint all earlier colour photos, old masters, Picassos (only blue was available); the lot.  Historical fact.  Indisputable.  Must be, a bloke up the pub says.  Modern colour rendition is only affordable because of digital technology, and, as everyone knows, Stoke on Trent is still in black and white!

 

Photos and paintings done pre 1964 were shot or painted in colour, of course, but only visible in black and white because that was all that the hooman eye could render in those days.  Apparently some older people still dream in black and white.  Scientific fact.

Edited March 8, 2017 by The Johnster

[KNP]

Last picture I promise of the 48xx with autocoach in tow.

Now all finished and in full service.

[gwrrob]

Last picture I promise of the 48xx with autocoach in tow.

Now all finished and in full service.

Nice looking layout KNP has it got a thread.

[KNP]

Nice looking layout KNP has it got a thread.

 

Thanks

I have been asked before if I have one and I don't so I might have to think about it.

I do have a lot of pictures on the galleries section under Little Muddle if you are interested?

Kevin

[gwrrob]

Thanks

I have been asked before if I have one and I don't so I might have to think about it.

I do have a lot of pictures on the galleries section under Little Muddle if you are interested?

Kevin

It's too good to be not be seen by anyone in the gallery, get a thread started young man . I'm drooling here !

[KNP]

It's too good to be not be seen by anyone in the gallery, get a thread started young man . I'm drooling here !

 

I'll see what I can do.......!!!! once I've worked out how to!!!!

[Ian Hargrave]

.After reading seemingly for hours through this thread and contributing one or two posts myself,I recently bit the bullet.Not once but twice.....hypocrite that I am . Firstly with the Great Western version shown quite brilliantly by Kevin on his layout and a day later with early BR(W) 1470. Yes they were ebay items which saved me a lot of Wonga so I can justify it ...well maybe ? .

 

So then the concerns expressed here.

 

Ashpangate....truly not bothered.Realise its absence but not in motion

Plategate.....Acknowledge the concerns of m'learned colleagues but like the way the etches catch the light and gleam when they do.Too small to notice as I appear now to be in my dotage anyway.

Rodgate.....yes it's there but again I seemingly have less of a concern.This model is ere small remember

Wheelgate....is for those mortals who operate on a loftier plane than I

Can'tgetthebodyoffgate.....Moi ? You must be John McEnroe 

 

Now what I really like :

 

Its "face" .The business end  has a recognisably authentic appeal.Arguably one of the best in r-t-r ,enhanced in 1470 by a well -rendered smokebox numberplate.

The wealth of delicate detail,particularly the handrails

General overall finish ..rivets,cab detail etc.

It looks the part,despite shortcomings well -aired on this thread.The prototype in 4mm scale. It's what I remember.

The signature Hattons/DJM packaging.Unique...others please copy.

 

Performance ?

 

DC only.Both performed in identical manner "out of the box" with hesitation over irregularity in track levels (minimal) only.Happy with 2X autocoach (one either end) No problem.

[olivegreen]

Good to read your comments, Ian (post above this one), given all the huffing and puffing there has been about this model.

 

I'm still waiting for mine to arrive (please don't tell any Southern people I have ordered one) but I'm sure I shall be delighted with it.

Mike

[Captain Kernow]

I haven't received my BR lined green one yet, as they haven't been released, but I was able to examine a friend's 58XX at close quarters this morning, and I am considerably less concerned than I was previously. I largely echo Ian's comments above. The over-sized wheels, whilst still inexplicable and unsatisfactory, don't seem to bother me when presented with the actual model.

 

I still don't like the numberplate arrangement, and will either be trying to remove mine or gluing a replacement etched brass plate on top of it.

 

My biggest concern is the issue of separating the body from the chassis, but I'm coming round to the view that I'll do some work once, to separate the various components that make this difficult, and will then look to implementing my own alternative fixing arrangements to the body, so that the chassis comes off more easily next time. The body will have to come off, if proper screw couplings are to be fitted, which for me is a 'must'.

 

The only remaining uncertainty is whether my example will run smoothly at slow speeds, essential for a loco that could end up being the mainstay of the branch goods on the new layout.

[PMP]

 

 

My biggest concern is the issue of separating the body from the chassis, but I'm coming round to the view that I'll do some work once, to separate the various components that make this difficult, and will then look to implementing my own alternative fixing arrangements to the body, so that the chassis comes off more easily next time. The body will have to come off, if proper screw couplings are to be fitted, which for me is a 'must'.

 

The only remaining uncertainty is whether my example will run smoothly at slow speeds, essential for a loco that could end up being the mainstay of the branch goods on the new layout.

 

I've had and still got similar reservations to yourself Tim. I've got an H1410 and have written about it here, hattons-djm-14xx-review-h1410/  including the dismantling of the chassis/body assembly.

I'm already working on the cab, as the double skinned front to the cab gives a very thick appearance and I'll change the galzing. Its a relatively easy modification and I'm opening up the vents too to let more light in. Apart from the brake gear pull rod and ashpan omissions I think its a pretty good model as I outline in my review.

 

 

The wheel/splasher over size and overall look actually work, but the dismantling of them if a motor fails for example would be difficult for someone not attuned to 'breaking and entering' as the rear injector pipes are glued from chassis to rear steps. Front sand pipes and the vac pipes also hinder an easy removal.

 

As far as running quality goes for me the Jury is still out. With no upward movement on any of the wheelsets the centre drivers can lift off on uneven track and gradient transitions reducing traction. Mine runs well on flat track, but its not as good as other contemporary steam outline releases with traditional drive trains. The coupling rods don't always sit level due to the slots for the crankpins and when moving slowly you can see them move around the crankpin.

 

 

I've followed Larry's example and removed the paint from the rods and I've noticed a little bit of an improvements afterwards with the slow running. I've noticed a particular problem with this type of drive train which is magnified by descending gradients. If reducing speed the locomotive will 'hunt/cog' due to the backlash in the gear train, this is accentuated with a load behind it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d73UU1bh6MY when you remove the load and the loco runs freely, apply a following load and it immediately recurs. Its more pronounced on the DJM j94 https://www.youtube. and is also evident to a far lesser degree on the Heljan Class 14. The gradient here is the Woodland Scenics 3% gradient. This for me is a real disappointment and one of the mods I'm going to try is a coupling rod replacement to see if some of the backlash can be removed. If not I may remove one of the drive train gears to adapt it to a 'conventional' drive and put a bit more weight into it for traction. The quartering on my example is spot on, the chassis runs freely by itself, so hopefully this will fine tune it to the performance I want.

Edited March 9, 2017 by PMP