Class 800 - Updates

[Mallard60022]

On ‎09‎/‎08‎/‎2019 at 23:23, 4630 said:

 

I used LNER’s services to and from Leeds and was on Doncaster station from around 8.45am and stayed for a little over 5 hours..

 

My outward service, 1A15 08.15 from Leeds, was correctly booked as an HST as it’s one of the few LNER services in the current timetable that starts at Harrogate and hasn’t yet been diagrammed for an Azuma.

 

The return service, 1D14 14.15 from Doncaster was a class 91 and Mk4 set.

 

During the time I was at Doncaster I’d estimate that the Leeds services were split pretty evenly between HSTs, class 91/Mark 4 and class 800 Azumas.

 

The Newcastle services were, I think, still all class 91/Mark 4, as were all but one each of the York and Edinburgh services where an Azuma is now diagrammed.  

 

HSTs, of course, currently work LNER’s Inverness and Aberdeen services.  

 

The transition is interesting, to me at least, in terms of operationally how it’s being carried out.  How the Azumas are being integrated into the existing timetable and how the service for passengers is changing. 

 

I guess that from LNER’s point of view, the 8th August was a good day.  Network Rail’s wires stayed where they should be - above the trains.  There was no service disruption to LNER that I was aware of.  Their services, on the whole, mostly ran to time.  Nothing ‘sat down’ and the class 67 ‘Thunderbird’ stayed shut down in Doncaster West Yard all the time I was there.  

 

As and when I can I’ll repeat my visit over the coming months to see what’s changed.  In 12 months time it’s certainly going to be a whole lot different.

 

Quick look at York TOC WC this morning and a southbound 225 Driving Trailer (platform 5) disgorged 4 bikes and took on 1 heavy looking lump of luggage. Took about two minutes I suppose with staff member on the spot to access the storage space and Driver taking a short  step out of the Cab. Interesting that the cyclists took about ten/fifteen minutes to sort their bikes! I believe the 800s have far less room for this sort of service; can't BA to go back to where we were discussing it, if we did?

Still 3 x Class 68s in the Loco Sidings as well.

P

[Richard E]

3 hours ago, Ken.W said:

Well, this is it

1E08, 10:28 NCL - KGX, 80x

Sorry to see the run was spoilt somewhat by a Leeds/KGX set failing at Grantham leading to a delay and an extra stop for you.

[Ken.W]

7 hours ago, Richard E said:

Sorry to see the run was spoilt somewhat by a Leeds/KGX set failing at Grantham leading to a delay and an extra stop for you.

 

Well, at least all went well with the satsuma and I didn't have any problems with that.

Well it would behave wouldn't it?Had two Hitachi guys riding onboard till Peterborough lol.

 

Typically though, the failed set was stopped in the platform and when he declared a failure I was just stopped at the next signal behind, which is the one after the signal where I could have crossed over to go thru the Western Platform round him. He did manage to get himself onto the Up Slow after about 20 mins though.

 

And the unscheduled stop at Grantham meant that I got to practice going into the TMS to do a manual door selection as the auto selection doesnt work for unscheduled stops.

Delay was about 30 mins.

 

Unfortunately however, on leaving Grantham I saw the culprit was the Intercity 91. On my return trip, 1S22 (HST ), I passed it just leaving the Up Slow at High Dyke being T'bird hauled.

 

So, what did I make of the Azoomer?  Well, actually seemed nice to drive, and cab environment comfortable and quiet. (didn't have any of those alarms to contend with though).

As has been said before, yes very fast off the mark - during training we were actually warned to be carefull of this leaving stations so as not to put some poor old dear on the floor!

This does seem to tail off quite markedly though once you get above 40 and at speed maybe just about as good as a 91 but certainly no better. Overall from a stand to 125, only about a couple of miles quicker. And this time, I'd stopped at Northallerton which has an unrestricted start.

 

 

800107 My first run with one after training

 

 

 

 

Edited August 11, 2019 by Ken.W

[Mallard60022]

26 minutes ago, Ken.W said:

 

Well, at least all went well with the satsuma and I didn't have any problems with that.

Well it would behave wouldn't it?Had two Hitachi guys riding onboard till Peterborough lol.

 

Typically though, the failed set was stopped in the platform and when he declared a failure I was just stopped at the next signal behind, which is the one after the signal where I could have crossed over to go thru the Western Platform round him. He did manage to get himself onto the Up Slow after about 20 mins though.

 

And the unscheduled stop at Grantham meant that I got to practice going into the TMS to do a manual door selection as the auto selection doesnt work for unscheduled stops.

Delay was about 30 mins.

 

Unfortunately however, on leaving Grantham I saw the culprit was the Intercity 91. On my return trip, 1S22 (HST ), I passed it just leaving the Up Slow at High Dyke being T'bird hauled.

 

So, what did I make of the Azoomer?  Well, actually seemed nice to drive, and cab environment comfortable and quiet. (didn't have any of those alarms to contend with though).

As has been said before, yes very fast off the mark - during training we were actually warned to be carefull of this leaving stations so as not to put some poor old dear on the floor!

This does seem to tail off quite markedly though once you get above 40 and at speed maybe just about as good as a 91 but certainly no better. Overall from a stand to 125, only about a couple of miles quicker. And this time, I'd stopped at Northallerton which has an unrestricted start.

 

 

800107 My first run with one after training

 

 

 

 

Great pic for your Album. I've been on that twice now buddy. It was the set used on the first X to York service and return on 1/08.  It isn't a bad set I'd say.

Well done and watch out for me and mates as you whizz through Retford in future. (Usually Tuesdays)

Sincerely, 

Phil

[Ian Hargrave]

I’d say that’s a great p.r.shot for LNER. The happy,friendly face of today’s railway.

[Ian Hargrave]

On 11/08/2019 at 11:24, Mallard60022 said:

Quick look at York TOC WC this morning and a southbound 225 Driving Trailer (platform 5) disgorged 4 bikes and took on 1 heavy looking lump of luggage. Took about two minutes I suppose with staff member on the spot to access the storage space and Driver taking a short  step out of the Cab. Interesting that the cyclists took about ten/fifteen minutes to sort their bikes! I believe the 800s have far less room for this sort of service; can't BA to go back to where we were discussing it, if we did?

Still 3 x Class 68s in the Loco Sidings as well.

P

 

The bike fraternity certainly have issues with the Azuma ,citing a conversation we had a couple of weeks ago in Bath.GWR policy towards them appears unclear not to say vexatious.

[jim.snowdon]

22 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 

The bike fraternity certainly have issues with the Azuma ,citing a conversation we had a couple of weeks ago in Bath.GWR policy towards them appears unclear not to say vexatious.

I always thought that even with the HSTs, GWR's attitude towards bicycles wasn't exactly friendly, with its requirement for compulsory reservations in advance and don't bother if you haven't reserved. 

(Spoken as a non-cyclist but frequent user of Paddington station and listener to the inevitable PA announcements.)

 

Jim

[Banger Blue]

44 minutes ago, jim.snowdon said:

I always thought that even with the HSTs, GWR's attitude towards bicycles wasn't exactly friendly, with its requirement for compulsory reservations in advance and don't bother if you haven't reserved. 

(Spoken as a non-cyclist but frequent user of Paddington station and listener to the inevitable PA announcements.)

 

Jim

 

HST had a maximum of 6 bikes only in the TGS. I can’t remember if reservations were compulsory or non-compulsory but advisable on some services.

When I was dispatching I certainly asked for bike reservations as if there was limited space, the reserved bikes got first dibs on the spaces.

 

Although IETs are reservation only, I’ve yet to see one with the bike / luggage store reservation lights actually showing a reservation!

[Mallard60022]

1 hour ago, jim.snowdon said:

I always thought that even with the HSTs, GWR's attitude towards bicycles wasn't exactly friendly, with its requirement for compulsory reservations in advance and don't bother if you haven't reserved. 

(Spoken as a non-cyclist but frequent user of Paddington station and listener to the inevitable PA announcements.)

 

Jim

Interestingly the cyclists I have seen unloading at York have all been what I would describe as touring types and all men AFAICS. I wonder if they travel form somewhere and then ride back (e.g Newcastle or Durham?)

P

[woodenhead]

1 hour ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 

The bike fraternity certainly have issues with the Azuma ,citing a conversation we had a couple of weeks ago in Bath.GWR policy towards them appears unclear not to say vexatious.

 

1 hour ago, jim.snowdon said:

I always thought that even with the HSTs, GWR's attitude towards bicycles wasn't exactly friendly, with its requirement for compulsory reservations in advance and don't bother if you haven't reserved. 

(Spoken as a non-cyclist but frequent user of Paddington station and listener to the inevitable PA announcements.)

 

Jim

On your bike son 

[The Stationmaster]

1 hour ago, jim.snowdon said:

I always thought that even with the HSTs, GWR's attitude towards bicycles wasn't exactly friendly, with its requirement for compulsory reservations in advance and don't bother if you haven't reserved. 

(Spoken as a non-cyclist but frequent user of Paddington station and listener to the inevitable PA announcements.)

 

Jim

Probably a reaction to past passenger complaints as a consequence of people getting onto trains with their bicycles and blocking vestibules with them because there was no room in the van area.  I know that going back a good few years there were frequent moans about cycles blocking doorways and cyclists seemingly having little concern about other passengers who wanted to get on or off.   Even worse on the 165s & 166s although quite what the converted set - with its special cycle space  taking out a goodly number of seats - is meant to be for I really don't know?

[DavidB-AU]

Just managed to catch a new one on the York railcam. It was booked as loco-hauled but was under its own power, pantographs down.

 

 

Cheers

David

[cheesysmith]

22 hours ago, Ian Hargrave said:

I’d say that’s a great p.r.shot for LNER. The happy,friendly face of today’s railway.

 

No, he is smiling because he has the only comfortable seat on the entire train.

[talisman56]

21 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

Probably a reaction to past passenger complaints as a consequence of people getting onto trains with their bicycles and blocking vestibules with them because there was no room in the van area.  I know that going back a good few years there were frequent moans about cycles blocking doorways and cyclists seemingly having little concern about other passengers who wanted to get on or off.   Even worse on the 165s & 166s although quite what the converted set - with its special cycle space  taking out a goodly number of seats - is meant to be for I really don't know?

 

My train from Bristol Parkway to Yatton last week was formed of a recently-overhauled 2-car 158, judging by the spotless exterior and new-smelling and stain-less upholstery in the passenger cabin. At BTM scruffy oik tried to load his bike into the rear vestibule (where the train manager had been working from on the way down from PW) onto a train already full and standing, and from reading the body language during their brief conversation, was told in no uncertain terms to take his conveyance elsewhere...

Edited August 13, 2019 by talisman56

[Mallard60022]

50 minutes ago, talisman56 said:

 

My train from Bristol Parkway to Yatton last week was formed of a recently-overhauled 2-car 158, judging by the spotless exterior and new-smelling and stain-less upholstery in the passenger cabin. At BTM scruffy oik tried to load his bike into the rear vestibule (where the train manager had been working from on the way down from PW) onto a train already full and standing, and from reading the body language during their brief conversation, was told in no uncertain terms to take his conveyance elsewhere...

So what happens if 'scruffy oik''s only way of getting to any work or an essential appointment they may have struggled to get, is on a bike and train? I know it can be a PITA, however that person is a customer (presumably?) and maybe shouldn't be labeled as an oik?

Phil

[Ian Hargrave]

31 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

So what happens if 'scruffy oik''s only way of getting to any work or an essential appointment they may have struggled to get, is on a bike and train? I know it can be a PITA, however that person is a customer (presumably?) and maybe shouldn't be labeled as an oik?

Phil

 

Yes we can all quote instances of passengers who may not be quite to our taste ( if that’s the right word ).

Ultimately though a train journey is a communal experience and it helps the journey to show a modicum of tolerance and understanding even to those who are disturbing our own comforts.

 

”Hell is other people “. Is it really that bad ?

[Mallard60022]

7 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 

Yes we can all quote instances of passengers who may not be quite to our taste ( if that’s the right word ).

Ultimately though a train journey is a communal experience and it helps the journey to show a modicum of tolerance and understanding even to those who are disturbing our own comforts.

 

”Hell is other people “. Is it really that bad ?

I've worked with a few folk that look like 'oiks'. Bloody good people in the main, just maybe not so fortunate as some?  I have also met some gits that are dressed in business suits and are real Richard heads with their ego up their arse. Some of my railway mates say that many of the worst fraudsters ticket wise are so called First Class/Business Class types and they are also arrogant and bigoted. Many of the biggest arses on the LNER FB site are this type; always having a go because they think they are special. Tossers.

P

Edited August 13, 2019 by Mallard60022

[phil-b259]

1 hour ago, Mallard60022 said:

So what happens if 'scruffy oik''s only way of getting to any work or an essential appointment they may have struggled to get, is on a bike and train? I know it can be a PITA, however that person is a customer (presumably?) and maybe shouldn't be labeled as an oik?

Phil

 

Bikes are carried at the discretion of the TOC concerned - nobody (‘scruffy oik’  or not) has the right to walk up and assume / demand the train take them and their machine however ‘vital’ their appointment is.

 

While it may be unsatisfactory that modern trains lack a decently sized guards van where bikes may be carried without getting in the way of passengers, ‘we are where we are’ and it is incumbent on passengers to check the exact situation as regards cycle policy before attempting to take the train.

 

 

 

[Ken.W]

4 hours ago, cheesysmith said:

 

No, he is smiling because he has the only comfortable seat on the entire train.

 

No, there's another one just like it at the other end.

[rodent279]

We're all oiks, it just depends on who is looking at us.

[caradoc]

18 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Bikes are carried at the discretion of the TOC concerned - nobody (‘scruffy oik’  or not) has the right to walk up and assume / demand the train take them and their machine however ‘vital’ their appointment is.

 

While it may be unsatisfactory that modern trains lack a decently sized guards van where bikes may be carried without getting in the way of passengers, ‘we are where we are’ and it is incumbent on passengers to check the exact situation as regards cycle policy before attempting to take the train.

 

 

 

 

Some TOCs, eg Scotrail (to their credit) are quite happy to take bikes; For example, Class 380 sets have a dedicated bike area, which I have used on occasion. However it is not unusual for that area to be occupied by passengers and/or their luggage, in which case I have had to stand with my bike in the door area (on the non-platform side to avoid obstructing the doors).

 

I'm not one of the rose-tinted spectacles 'everything was better in the old days' brigade, but pre-Sprinter and Pacer, and later Voyager etc, bikes could be taken on most trains because there was a van area with plenty of space. Given the increased popularity of cycling it is a great pity that taking a bike on a train has, in many cases, become such a hassle. 

 

 

[Mallard60022]

38 minutes ago, phil-b259 said:

 

Bikes are carried at the discretion of the TOC concerned - nobody (‘scruffy oik’  or not) has the right to walk up and assume / demand the train take them and their machine however ‘vital’ their appointment is.

 

While it may be unsatisfactory that modern trains lack a decently sized guards van where bikes may be carried without getting in the way of passengers, ‘we are where we are’ and it is incumbent on passengers to check the exact situation as regards cycle policy before attempting to take the train.

 

 

 

Well aware of that mate. Just don't like the 'assumption' that someone is a scruffy OIK with a bike. Passengers are carried at the discretion of the TOC bike or not.

End of.

P

Edited August 13, 2019 by Mallard60022

[Ken.W]

2 minutes ago, caradoc said:

 

Some TOCs, eg Scotrail (to their credit) are quite happy to take bikes; For example, Class 380 sets have a dedicated bike area,

 

And they even have a 153 converted to a mobile bike rack

[Mallard60022]

8 minutes ago, Ken.W said:

 

And they even have a 153 converted to a mobile bike rack

Is there a reason for that? I know that there used to be a 'dedicated train' (or trains?) for bikes on the Brighton line after the London to Brighton bike ride. Probably a VEP?

I'm sure that back in the 60s there were some SR vehicles that were used as bike vans for special trains. 

Bikes and trains don't really mix under most circumstances, I accept that, however the lack of available space for bikes and buggies on long distance 800s is bloody poor planning but then I suspect there are plenty of other things that were not thought out well. I await the first victim of 'Blind Rage'!

P

 

Edited August 13, 2019 by Mallard60022

[cunningduck]

2 minutes ago, Mallard60022 said:

Is there a reason for that? I know that there used to be a 'dedicated train' (or trains?) for bikes on the Brighton line after the London to Brighton bike ride. Probably a VEP?

I'm sure that back in the 60s there were some SR vehicles that were used as bike vans for special trains. 

Bikes and trains don't really mix under most circumstances, I accept that, however the lack of available space for bikes and buggies on long distance 800s is bloody poor planning but then I suspect there are plenty of other things that were not thought out well. I await the first victim of 'Blind Rage'!

P

 

They’re not in service yet and but are intended for Glasgow - Fort William trains as a cycle/large luggage/buffet coach.