Midland Railway in EM gauge

[queensquare]

Hi Derek.

I don't suppose you have a usable drawing of a Kirtley 700 class 0-6-0 and tender you can let me have do you? You and a few others on here have inspired me to have a crack at scratch building one and I don't have anything other than a GA drawing which is hopeless to work off. If not can you point me at one I can get hold of.

Regards Lez.Z.

 

I have the Skinley drawing somewhere if you are still looking - I intend building one in 2mm. PM me if interested and I will scan it. London Road will be releasing a kit for the 700 soon, its currently at the test etch stage.

 

Jerry

 

Jerry

[lezz01]

Hello Lezz, I have a Skinley drawing.of a 700 class, but it is indecipherable now, having been subjected to soldering fluid. But I will have a look for it tomorrow. I also have the book on these engines, I think from the Midland Railway Society. I will look for that in the morning and see what there is in the way of drawings.

I might add, despite all the things I have said about scratch building, the Kirtley is tricky due to the curved footplate over the wheels. If it is your first attempt, you may be better off with a Johnson 2F or something like it. A simpler design.

Will be in touch during the next couple of days.

Derek

Hi Derek. 

It's not my first rodeo mate the last scratch built loco was the 156 2-4-0 which was built at a time when I was working in EM and flirting with S4 and was sold on to a member of the EM gauge society with other EM gauge stock when I switched over to 18.83 and is something I regret. I had a crack at the 700 Falcon Brass kit but failed as the WB of the inside frames was different to the WB of the outside frames and as it was the outside frame that were incorrect I flogged it on to someone who wasn't as fussed about that as I was and built a new chassis to the incorrect WB. Some of the falcon kits were truly awful. Back in the mists of time I used to be a toolmaker. 3 years apprenticeship but sadly 6 months after I qualified the firm went bust and the closest job I could find was 40 miles away and so I joined the army and served for 6 years after which I went into general engineering. I may be a pharmacy technician now but I do have the necessary skills for the job. Finding the time is a different matter of course.

Regards Lez.Z.        

Edited July 11, 2018 by lezz01

[Mrkirtley800]

Lezz, I have looked for a drawing of a Kirtley goods, and only found a Skinley blueprint.

I have the book on Kirtley locos by Summerson, Jenkinson and Essery series on Midland locos, and my collection of mags, and none of them shows a line drawing, plenty of photos though.

The Skinley is not in as bad a condition as I had thought, although it is not very good, but if you would like it, I will send it to you. PM me with your address.

Derek

[lezz01]

Hi Derek.

It's all good mate. Jerry (Queens Square) has offered to scan his drawing for me.

I'll keep you posted when I get a chance to start it. I may even do a work bench thread on it.

If I remember correctly I did start another 156 I'll have a look and see if I can find it. It'll be somewhere in the shed but it's 3 house moves ago and might be lost. However if I can lay my hands on it I might finish that one first as I know I did the outside frames, foot plate and boiler, I also have most if not all the fittings and wheels. It was S4 but I didn't start the chassis but I'm sure I had the inside frames cut and shaped because I did the inside and outside frames at the same time so they were the same wheelbase. I know I didn't do the rods because as I was going to use horn blocks and cast rods although I now have no way of casting them but hey ho I can always fabricate them out of something suitable. Bullhead rail is good for rods.

Regards Lez.Z.

[technohand]

Hi all

There is a difinitive work on the 700 class Goods "Midland Engines No 4" available from Wild Swan or the Midland Railway Soc. Book Shop.

It is very comprehensive and worth every penny.

Tony

[kes]

Hi Derek, how did you manage to rename your thread? I cannot seem to do it.  Kevin.

[sir douglas]

you edit the first post

[Mrkirtley800]

Hi Derek, how did you manage to rename your thread? I cannot seem to do it.  Kevin.

Kevin, I will pm you later today. I had no idea how to change the name, so asked Andy York, and he did it for me, and also told me how to go about it in the future, so I can repeat it to you.

Derek

[tractionman]

Hi Derek, how did you manage to rename your thread? I cannot seem to do it.  Kevin.

 

some inf on this here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/130209-changing-titles-and-tags/

 

cheers,

 

Keith

[Mrkirtley800]

Now for something away from the railway.

I have, at last, provided a midden for the provision merchants, just needs bedding in to the ground. Not very large, but the buildings are only half relief.

Also we have a hexagonal Victorian post box, originally painted green but red from about 1860 ish.

Mary, the cook from the big house is on her way to see Ada Hardaker, wife of the provision merchant (or green grocer nowadays) to order vegetables for the following week.

They will be delivered byJoseph Ainsworth, who coincidentally, is passing by on his way to the big house with freshly laundered linen. Her Ladyship keeps a good stock of clean laundry for any visiting friends. Sadly, they are few and far between since his Lordship got his new car. He would take guests to see it, then offer to take them for a spin. On returning to the house, ashen faced and trembling with shock, the visitors would stagger off to their rooms to recover.

The laundry is on the Malham Road, next to Lyons Stores, Walter Lyons has a job in Skipton in an engineering works. He catches the 6.00am train leaving wife Mabel to run the shop. On a dry day she washes and polishes the shop window. It is, perhaps, unfortunate that a steam pipe in the laundry has split and fogs up Mabel’s clean window. After words, Amos Watson is sent for. He is the local handyman, but he is not at home.

He is actually sitting outside the Station Hotel. He always maintains that his best work is done after three pints of beer. He is on his second pint when he sees the vicar coming down the High Street in his horse and trap. The vicar has been trying to get Amos off drink for years without success, and he pretends not to see Amos, passing by with angry pursed mouth and thoughts of eternal damnation.

Over the road we have Lydia Whyte, nanny to the three McIntyre children. Their father, Captain McIntyre and old sea dog who sailed the seven seas under canvas, and who thinks that steam powered ships are just a passing fad. He retired and bought the Grange, a large house on the edge of the village. He married a much younger women and produced three children.

Nanny Lydia is looking at the destinations served by the horse bus to be an educational ride, but the two eldest children are having none of it. They want to get to Gordale Scar to climb the waterfall and paddle in the stream.

So, that then, is a day in the life of Kirkby Malham, with my humble apologies to the residents of the real KM for introducing a railway into their beautiful village.

Derek

Edited July 31, 2018 by Mrkirtley800

[Compound2632]

Good to see you're supporting the local (card) building industry!

[westerhamstation]

Hi Derek, absolutely delightful. All the best Adrian.

[KNP]

Lovely modelling and the feeling of tranquilly with a sedate way of life ouses out of the pictures.

More please.....

[Mrkirtley800]

Good to see you're supporting the local (card) building industry!

Yes, I found Metcalfe years ago, and bought a couple of their.low relief terrace houses at each exhibition I visited. They looked OK along the back of Canal Road, but close up, you can see the origins. On all of them, I have built in some modifications, so they are not quite a straight forward build. I had originally intended to scratch build the shops as full buildings, like the Station Hotel, built by a friend,but the time it would take to do it would probably be more than I have left.

So half relief building kits they will stay.

As I have said before, the shops are modelled on ones that my relatives had, like Lyons stores, run by my Auntie Mabel between 1912 and 1920 I think, and my paternal grand dad as plumber and electrician in the years before WW1. Whyting butchers, my wife’s dad, and the confectioners my Auntie Ida and Uncle Arthur during and after WW2. So it is not all freelance modelling.

Derek

Edited July 31, 2018 by Mrkirtley800

[queensquare]

Hi Derek.

It's all good mate. Jerry (Queens Square) has offered to scan his drawing for me.

I'll keep you posted when I get a chance to start it. I may even do a work bench thread on it.

If I remember correctly I did start another 156 I'll have a look and see if I can find it. It'll be somewhere in the shed but it's 3 house moves ago and might be lost. However if I can lay my hands on it I might finish that one first as I know I did the outside frames, foot plate and boiler, I also have most if not all the fittings and wheels. It was S4 but I didn't start the chassis but I'm sure I had the inside frames cut and shaped because I did the inside and outside frames at the same time so they were the same wheelbase. I know I didn't do the rods because as I was going to use horn blocks and cast rods although I now have no way of casting them but hey ho I can always fabricate them out of something suitable. Bullhead rail is good for rods.

Regards Lez.Z.

 

Hi Lez, apologies, not forgotten just cant lay my hands on them at the moment.

 

Jerry

[Compound2632]

Yes, I found Metcalfe years ago, 

 

It is I think unusual to be emotionally affected by a card kit but I was rather moved by Nick Metcalfe's account of his inspirational teacher at Airton School, in the instructions for the school kit.

 

*Half-way between Bell Busk and Kirkby Malham, for those unfamiliar with the southern Dales.

[coachmann]

I wonder how many historical railway modellers stick with a single project throughout thier lifetime?  David Jenks did with his version of the Settle & Carlisle and my pal PGH has with his 'Moving coal' colliery complex based in Lancashire. Another friend who has done this is of course is you Derek, as you were busy on the layout when we first met in the very early 1970's. Nigh on half a Century! You were one of several very talented builders to become life-long friends and who I was privileged to paint for.  

 

Looking back at some of my late 1960's advertising in the model magazines, I rather grandly projected myself as 'The Midland Specialist'. The Midland/LMS had been 'my line' since I was a child so I enjoyed painting other modellers MR locos, which is the best way of earning a crust!  But your locos were rather special because it was the first time I had seen Kirtley's beautiful creations in model form. This came to mind when I was looking at the NRM's Stirling Single thread on this forum. Another 1870 loco was Kirtleys 2-4-0 & Tender, and that too is in the Museum. One can only hope the NRM gets around to that one next!

 

LG

[lezz01]

Hi Derek.

The half relief buildings look great mate. To my mind it doesn't mater what the Provence of something is on a layout as long as it looks good. 

With regard to the 156 class 2-4-0 I had a foray into the shed at the week end and I'm please to say I managed to find it. 

One day I might even get around to finishing it.

Regards Lez.Z. 

[ChrisN]

Now for something away from the railway.

I have, at last, provided a midden for the provision merchants, just needs bedding in to the ground. Not very large, but the buildings are only half relief.

Also we have a hexagonal Victorian post box, originally painted green but red from about 1860 ish.

Mary, the cook from the big house is on her way to see Ada Hardaker, wife of the provision merchant (or green grocer nowadays) to order vegetables for the following week.

They will be delivered byJoseph Ainsworth, who coincidentally, is passing by on his way to the big house with freshly laundered linen. Her Ladyship keeps a good stock of clean laundry for any visiting friends. Sadly, they are few and far between since his Lordship got his new car. He would take guests to see it, then offer to take them for a spin. On returning to the house, ashen faced and trembling with shock, the visitors would stagger off to their rooms to recover.

The laundry is on the Malham Road, next to Lyons Stores, Walter Lyons has a job in Skipton in an engineering works. He catches the 6.00am train leaving wife Mabel to run the shop. On a dry day she washes and polishes the shop window. It is, perhaps, unfortunate that a steam pipe in the laundry has split and fogs up Mabel’s clean window. After words, Amos Watson is sent for. He is the local handyman, but he is not at home.

He is actually sitting outside the Station Hotel. He always maintains that his best work is done after three pints of beer. He is on his second pint when he sees the vicar coming down the High Street in his horse and trap. The vicar has been trying to get Amos off drink for years without success, and he pretends not to see Amos, passing by with angry pursed mouth and thoughts of eternal damnation.

Over the road we have Lydia Whyte, nanny to the three McIntyre children. Their father, Captain McIntyre and old sea dog who sailed the seven seas under canvas, and who thinks that steam powered ships are just a passing fad. He retired and bought the Grange, a large house on the edge of the village. He married a much younger women and produced three children.

Nanny Lydia is looking at the destinations served by the horse bus to be an educational ride, but the two eldest children are having none of it. They want to get to Gordale Scar to climb the waterfall and paddle in the stream.

So, that then, is a day in the life of Kirkby Malham, with my humble apologies to the residents of the real KM for introducing a railway into their beautiful village.

Derek

 

Derek,

Love the pictures but love the story as well.  I think it adds to the overall effect when you think about your layout.

[Mrkirtley800]

It is I think unusual to be emotionally affected by a card kit but I was rather moved by Nick Metcalfe's account of his inspirational teacher at Airton School, in the instructions for the school kit.

 

*Half-way between Bell Busk and Kirkby Malham, for those unfamiliar with the southern Dales.

And one of the stations on my imaginary railway line. Airton

Thank you for sharing the information with us, I had no idea of this, although many years ago I visited the Metcalfe showroom.

On the same trip, I found a model railway shop miles from anywhere up a long narrow lane, and there bought one of the early Metcalfe kits, a factory/mill where the windows were printed and not cut out. That kit was bashed around, cut in half and now forms part of the wood yard complex at Kirkby Malham.

Derek

Edited August 1, 2018 by Mrkirtley800

[Mrkirtley800]

I wonder how many historical railway modellers stick with a single project throughout thier lifetime?  David Jenks did with his version of the Settle & Carlisle and my pal PGH has with his 'Moving coal' colliery complex based in Lancashire. Another friend who has done this is of course is you Derek, as you were busy on the layout when we first met in the very early 1970's. Nigh on half a Century! You were one of several very talented builders to become life-long friends and who I was privileged to paint for.  

 

Looking back at some of my late 1960's advertising in the model magazines, I rather grandly projected myself as 'The Midland Specialist'. The Midland/LMS had been 'my line' since I was a child so I enjoyed painting other modellers MR locos, which is the best way of earning a crust!  But your locos were rather special because it was the first time I had seen Kirtley's beautiful creations in model form. This came to mind when I was looking at the NRM's Stirling Single thread on this forum. Another 1870 loco was Kirtleys 2-4-0 & Tender, and that too is in the Museum. One can only hope the NRM gets around to that one next!

 

All that is such a long time ago Larry. I was into scratch building locos. In fact I got my “kicks” out of it, and did quite a few for friends. I wonder where all those locos are now. Paul (Worsdellforever) has a Q6 I built for my old mate Fred who sadly passed away some time ago.

Derek

 

LG

[Mrkirtley800]

Hi Derek.

The half relief buildings look great mate. To my mind it doesn't mater what the Provence of something is on a layout as long as it looks good. 

With regard to the 156 class 2-4-0 I had a foray into the shed at the week end and I'm please to say I managed to find it. 

20180715_231446.jpg

One day I might even get around to finishing it.

Regards Lez.Z.

 

Lezz that looks a pretty decent bit of scratch building, hope you decide to finish it.

One of my first attempts was a 1400 class 2-4-0. Having built and painted the engine, I put it on a shelf and sat down to look at it. It didn’t look right and then I realised the boiler had a distinct slope from back to front. I gave it away to someone who didn’t care as much as me.

Derek

[coachmann]

All that is such a long time ago Larry. I was into scratch building locos. In fact I got my “kicks” out of it, and did quite a few for friends. I wonder where all those locos are now. Paul (Worsdellforever) has a Q6 I built for my old mate Fred who sadly passed away some time ago.

 

Derek

 

 

Fred was a character. Do you remember when we and our families went to the comparatively new K&WVR and Fred and I were in dispute over the colour of LNER buffer shanks. Darlington Works and Doncaster Works had different ideas so some B1's had black shanks and some red. We were diesel hauled in a distinctly dusty SE&CR saloon.

[Worsdell forever]

Fred was a character. Do you remember when we and our families went to the comparatively new K&WVR and Fred and I were in dispute over the colour of LNER buffer shanks. Darlington Works and Doncaster Works had different ideas so some B1's had black shanks and some red. We were diesel hauled in a distinctly dusty SE&CR saloon.

 

He was, but very encouraging and generous, turns out he worked with my father in law on the leccy, he remembers him as a character too.

[Mrkirtley800]

Fred was a character. Do you remember when we and our families went to the comparatively new K&WVR and Fred and I were in dispute over the colour of LNER buffer shanks. Darlington Works and Doncaster Works had different ideas so some B1's had black shanks and some red. We were diesel hauled in a distinctly dusty SE&CR saloon.

Those were the days Larry