RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted May 27, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 27, 2015 At long last C&L have updated their web site to make clear that their 00 roller gauges are for the DOGA-Fine standard only. And also that their 00 back-to-back gauges are for the DOGA-Intermediate standard only (NMRA -H0), 14.4mm, for RTR models, see: http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=346_375_376 Unfortunately what they don't say is that these two are not compatible -- wheels set to DOGA-Intermediate at 14.4mm back-to-back will not run on DOGA-Fine track where the span across the check rails is 14.5mm. Fortunately C&L also supply gauges for 00-SF track -- on which RTR wheels set to DOGA-Intermediate 14.4mm back-to-back will run. If you are ordering turnout kits from C&L and want to run unmodified RTR models on them, it is important to request that the kits be supplied with the 00-SF gauges, and not the usual DOGA-Fine gauges. Alternatively if you want to build DOGA-Fine track, you should not use the C&L back-to-back gauge, RTR wheels need to be widened to 14.7mm back-to-back to run on DOGA-Fine. We have been over all this so many times that I'm not going to write it all again here. This post is just for info that the C&L web site has been updated. Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
highpeak Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I wish I had understood this a few years ago. Still, I suppose it was good practice and useful experience in the long run. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Martin I think I have said this on a couple of threads before We could do with a company who would supply a comprehensive supply of track gauges, not everyone wants to join a society and in some cases costs are prohibitive in some cases. Also those with deeper flanges are sometimes not compatible with the plastic chair construction method, I guess Marcway is the nearest we have but they supply roller gauges only as do Markits (much smaller range) Roller gauges without in built check rail gauges, why is it only the societies who supply wing rail gauges ?. And on the nice to have list are block gauges The C&L gauges are perfectly good for 00 gauge stock rail setting, its just the check and wing rail settings Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted May 28, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 28, 2015 The C&L gauges are perfectly good for 00 gauge stock rail setting, its just the check and wing rail settings Hi John, I suspect C&L feel constrained from offering "standard" 00 (00-BF, DOGA Intermediate) because their ready-made crossings have 1.0mm flangeways, and are therefore suitable only for 00-SF, DOGA-Fine, EM. But for those who want to build "standard" 00 (00-BF), the gauges are in fact available from C&L, it is just knowing what to do with them: 1. Buy the DOGA-Fine roller gauges and ignore the two inner slots (you could fill them with epoxy or similar to remind you). 2. Buy the 00-SF check gauge. It is exactly the same as an 00-BF check gauge, because it is intended for the same wheels. 3. Find something 1.3mm or .050" thick to use as the crossing flangeway gauge shim. A set of car spark-plug feeler gauges made up to 1.3mm would do. 4. Don't buy the kits or assembled crossings from C&L, make your own having 1.3mm flangeways. regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenser Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Or buy Intermediate roller gauges from DOGA Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted May 28, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 28, 2015 Or buy Intermediate roller gauges from DOGA Similar gauges are also available from Markits and SMP/Marcway. As usual with 00 products from the trade, it is difficult to get detailed information. For example, what rail-width are they intended to work with? (SMP bullhead rail is underscale and narrower than C&L bullhead, some gauges are intended for Peco rail.) (This topic is about C&L gauges.) regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I'm not convinced that SMP bull head rail is under scale compared to C&L - I have some of both and they were very close in size (both vertically and horizontally) measured using digital calipers: has anyone else measured any recently? Both have a similar fit in my 00-SF gauges from C&L Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted May 28, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 28, 2015 I'm not convinced that SMP bull head rail is under scale compared to C&L - I have some of both and they were very close in size (both vertically and horizontally) measured using digital calipers: has anyone else measured any recently? Both have a similar fit in my 00-SF gauges from C&L That's good to know. For many years SMP bullhead rail was .032" wide, compared with 036" wide for C&L and rails from the scale societies. (exact scale is .036") But there are few wire drawing companies supplying rail, it is known that the trade sometimes swap supplies as needed. Gordon S on here measured some rail and reported his SMP rail as narrower than his C&L rail at that time. Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I wonder if I just happened on a 'lucky' batch (as you say, they might well have come from the same factory). For my own peace of mind I'll measure them again when I get chance and post the results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 It just so happens that some shiny new SMP EM track arrived here two hours ago, and it's 0.032". Of course that doesn't mean that Marcway haven't had it in stock for decades!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted May 28, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 28, 2015 Further to my comments above about the C&L back-to-back gauges. When Brian Lewis was running C&L the web site clearly stated that the 00 back-to-back gauges were 14.8mm. i.e. to the DOGA-Fine standard. Which made sense bearing in mind that the C&L track gauges are also for the DOGA-Fine standard. The C&L web site is now saying that their current back-to-back gauges are for the DOGA-Intermediate standard (14.4mm). So clearly there has been a design change at some stage. It would have been helpful if the web site at announced this, and also I would hope that buyers were clearly told which size they were getting. If you obtained a C&L 00 back-to-back gauge in the past, you should not assume that it complies with the current web site. It would be a good idea to measure it and check. The difference between 14.8mm and 14.4mm is quite noticeable (more than the thickness of a postcard). Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I'm glad my only foray into OO gauge is with Peco track and points, and the handbuilt stuff is EM and P4 broad gauge, where there are clear and straightforward standards to follow!!! Plus a planned little dabble with O-MF, that doesn't seem anywhere near as confusing as this! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightbe Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Or buy Intermediate roller gauges from DOGA Non-starter for me. No online checkout system. If they changed this I would be happy to buy from them. Same with Marcway. Frankly if it's 2015 and you're advertising items online for sale you should have an online checkout system in place. A number of smaller suppliers attempt to make do without one and that's IMHO poor business sense. Mail order-only/have to call is major turnoff. Luckily C&L is one of the growing number of suppliers who understand this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Non-starter for me. No online checkout system. If they changed this I would be happy to buy from them. Same with Marcway. Frankly if it's 2015 and you're advertising items online for sale you should have an online checkout system in place. A number of smaller suppliers attempt to make do without one and that's IMHO poor business sense. Mail order-only/have to call is major turnoff. Luckily C&L is one of the growing number of suppliers who understand this. It's scary buying from Marcway! I can't remember the last time I had to pick up that strange shaped white thing on my desk, actually talk to someone, and tell them my address and card number! Then there were the days of worrying if they'd written the order down correctly, and wondering when it would turn up in case no one was here, with no e-mail to tell me when it was dispatched, and no way to track it! My order arrived safely today though, and I've started planning the little project I bought the SMP track for! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightbe Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Well it's all fine and dandy if you live on the same island--just pick up that phone and call. But when you're 4500 miles away it's not even worth bothering with phone or mail order. Note: I'm surprised that GB is only 600 miles from Northeast to Southwest...that's the same as my drive between home and university. That puts things into scale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeeleyBridge Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Its even scarier for me I get on the 52 bus outside The Ball (preferably a Stagecaoch one, they are nicer) ....get off it outside Marcway, buy stuff, and then as soon as practicable get back to The Ball to get over it Me too, bus to Elm Tree, get tram. Go in Marcway, try to come out without emptying wallet and card, back on tram, bus at Asda. I've found it best to city wide ticket on the outward journey just in case My new SMP track is 36 thou. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 It's scary buying from Marcway! I can't remember the last time I had to pick up that strange shaped white thing on my desk, actually talk to someone, and tell them my address and card number! Then there were the days of worrying if they'd written the order down correctly, and wondering when it would turn up in case no one was here, with no e-mail to tell me when it was dispatched, and no way to track it! My order arrived safely today though, and I've started planning the little project I bought the SMP track for! Buying from Markits is only slightly simpler BUT for setting the track gauge of 16.5 mm C&L roller gauges are fine and work well The problem with them is that the wing and check rail gaps are wrong for standard 00 gauge. But who uses a roller gauge to set a wing rail, its far easier to use a wing rail gauge (a flat metal bar the correct thickness) To set the check rail you should use a check rail gauge, an 00 check rail gauge is exactly the same as an 00sf check rail gauge C&L 00 gauge roller gauges are perfect to set the 16.5 mm track gauge, they have an easy to use website and are the only company out of the 3 to sell check rail gauges Edit Many years ago SMP used to supply an aluminium track gauge in the copperclad kits, not very good as track gauges but super for wing rail gauges and at a pinch could be used for check rails What we need is a friendly modeller with access to a milling machine and make some gauges of the correct width Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted May 29, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 29, 2015 My new SMP track is 36 thou. Thanks Dave. That would confirm that SMP supplies are coming from different sources / suppliers, so worth checking. Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted May 29, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 29, 2015 Well it's all fine and dandy if you live on the same island--just pick up that phone and call. But when you're 4500 miles away it's not even worth bothering with phone or mail order. Note: I'm surprised that GB is only 600 miles from Northeast to Southwest...that's the same as my drive between home and university. That puts things into scale. We get precious little else in the way of perks on this Island so we are grateful for the ones we have Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted May 29, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 29, 2015 We get precious little else in the way of perks on this Island A few perks. Here on a summer's evening*, listen to the bell-ringing from the church on the hill (just visible in the trees) -- magical above the silence of the Severn valley and the gentle swish of the river. With maybe a steam whistle on the SVR behind you. http://www.wdcra.org.uk/uppera.htm *Tuesdays. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted May 29, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 29, 2015 ... don't tell everyone. Best keep gems like that a secret Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 What we need is a friendly modeller with access to a milling machine and make some gauges of the correct width I know an old guy who has one, but he's a bit grumpy! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 I know an old guy who has one, but he's a bit grumpy! But very good at his job !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyID Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 But very good at his job !! I'll let him know you said that, but I'm not sure it will make him any less grumpy. What he really ought to do is produce a kit of bits that can be configured for any gauge/standard/rail-width. I keep telling him that, but he always says there's b****r all money in it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 I think very few folk make money from supplying parts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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