tigerburnie Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 We'll agree to disagree then and move on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold john new Posted December 21, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2017 The annoying part of yesterday's major update was (a) the timing for the release by MS when everyone is rushing to finish for Christmas shut down deadlines and (b) the excessive time it took hogging the machine on re-boot with no obvious warning it would do so before you accepted the option of shut down and install updates. Went for a take away curry; came back and then lost nearly three hours as MS hogged the machine installing stuff then which I'd expected it to do as part of shutting down and crucially whilst I was fetching the curry so the updates job should have been a background task running in a time slot off the critical path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted December 21, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2017 We'll agree to disagree then and move on Now here's something to really gripe about .. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42438745 enforced obsolescence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrobuscp Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 The annoying part of yesterday's major update was (a) the timing for the release by MS when everyone is rushing to finish for Christmas shut down deadlines and (b) the excessive time it took hogging the machine on re-boot with no obvious warning it would do so before you accepted the option of shut down and install updates. Went for a take away curry; came back and then lost nearly three hours as MS hogged the machine installing stuff then which I'd expected it to do as part of shutting down and crucially whilst I was fetching the curry so the updates job should have been a background task running in a time slot off the critical path. A classic example of why the updating procedures need improvement. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chriswright03 Posted December 21, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2017 See this is what I can't understand. Why does it take hours for some to update and my clapped out laptop does it in 30 minutes max? Even the Windows 10 tablet never takes any longer, Perhaps the timing by MS just before Christmas is so they can have a holiday as well. Just saying. Let's face it once they have dished out the update their work is hardly done as they may still have to sort out the fallout from the update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted December 21, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2017 The annoying part of yesterday's major update was (a) the timing for the release by MS when everyone is rushing to finish for Christmas shut down deadlines and (b) the excessive time it took hogging the machine on re-boot with no obvious warning it would do so before you accepted the option of shut down and install updates. Went for a take away curry; came back and then lost nearly three hours as MS hogged the machine installing stuff then which I'd expected it to do as part of shutting down and crucially whilst I was fetching the curry so the updates job should have been a background task running in a time slot off the critical path. Then what you need to do is go into the Windows Update page (settings -> update and security) and set values for active hours which is when Windows won't try and reboot your machine. The updates do run as a background task, but eventually you have to reboot to finish the job. An alternative, which is the approach I use, is once a major update has been released, not to wait for MS to decide when to update my machine. Instead I go to the download page here - https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10 - at a time of my choosing and run the update. There are 3 PCs in our household and they all took no more than 20-30 minutes to do the last major upgrade (1709). Sounds like you have a slow PC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrobuscp Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 See this is what I can't understand. Why does it take hours for some to update and my clapped out laptop does it in 30 minutes max? Even the Windows 10 tablet never takes any longer, Perhaps the timing by MS just before Christmas is so they can have a holiday as well. Just saying. Let's face it once they have dished out the update their work is hardly done as they may still have to sort out the fallout from the update. I suppose it depends upon exactly what is being updated, speed of connection, etc. I have 2 Dell laptops, not highest spec but reasonable, and some updates are quick but the upgrades can take a long time and just checking for updates seems to take some time even without any downloads or installs. I notice the time it takes as the only time I've run them over the last 18 months has been to actually do updates as my main operating machine is a Win 7 pc. The Win 10 machines were bought as Win 7 and upgraded just before the free upgrade period expired. I use them as off-site backup and to switch my day to day use to gradually over time. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted December 21, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2017 Now here's something to really gripe about .. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42438745 enforced obsolescence. Not really fair on Apple! It's their way of keeping your old phone running reliably when the software detects the battery has degraded. Replace the battery and normal speed is restored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted December 21, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2017 See this is what I can't understand. Why does it take hours for some to update and my clapped out laptop does it in 30 minutes max? Even the Windows 10 tablet never takes any longer, Likewise my Windows tablet. No update has ever taken longer than 20 minutes. Often I don't even notice it has happened. If you read up on the inner workings of Windows Update (the update program on your computer) you can see the reasons for the long delays. The major part of the time is scanning your computer to see what updates are missing. If none are missing (i.e. your system is fully up-to-date) and you have a reasonable broadband speed, the latest update (likely already downloaded) can be installed in a few minutes. If any previous update component is missing (system not up to date), Windows Update downloads it and installs it. Then it goes back to the beginning and starts again. So the time is doubled for every missing update component. Like folding a sheet of paper quickly becomes very thick, it doesn't take long for 20 minutes to turn into several hours as Windows Update keeps starting again. The secret seems to be to never miss an update, however inconvenient. Otherwise the next one could take hours if the previous missed one contained several components. Martin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted December 21, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) Likewise my Windows tablet. No update has ever taken longer than 20 minutes. Often I don't even notice it has happened. If you read up on the inner workings of Windows Update (the update program on your computer) you can see the reasons for the long delays. The major part of the time is scanning your computer to see what updates are missing. If none are missing (i.e. your system is fully up-to-date) and you have a reasonable broadband speed, the latest update (likely already downloaded) can be installed in a few minutes. If any previous update component is missing (system not up to date), Windows Update downloads it and installs it. Then it goes back to the beginning and starts again. So the time is doubled for every missing update component. Like folding a sheet of paper quickly becomes very thick, it doesn't take long for 20 minutes to turn into several hours as Windows Update keeps starting again. The secret seems to be to never miss an update, however inconvenient. Otherwise the next one could take hours if the previous missed one contained several components. Martin. Won't happen with Windows 10 as all updates are cumulative. When a new cumulative update arrives (usually on patch Tuesday) Windows will check which updates in the package you don't have, and will download and install only those. So a previous update cannot be incomplete. Of late MS seem to have got to grips with the performance of these cumulative updates, and the last one earlier this month took less than 10 minutes. Edited December 21, 2017 by RFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 21, 2017 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted December 21, 2017 Now here's something to really gripe about .. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42438745 enforced obsolescence. I posted that link a few posts back! Keith 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrobuscp Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 Likewise my Windows tablet. No update has ever taken longer than 20 minutes. Often I don't even notice it has happened. If you read up on the inner workings of Windows Update (the update program on your computer) you can see the reasons for the long delays. The major part of the time is scanning your computer to see what updates are missing. If none are missing (i.e. your system is fully up-to-date) and you have a reasonable broadband speed, the latest update (likely already downloaded) can be installed in a few minutes. If any previous update component is missing (system not up to date), Windows Update downloads it and installs it. Then it goes back to the beginning and starts again. So the time is doubled for every missing update component. Like folding a sheet of paper quickly becomes very thick, it doesn't take long for 20 minutes to turn into several hours as Windows Update keeps starting again. The secret seems to be to never miss an update, however inconvenient. Otherwise the next one could take hours if the previous missed one contained several components. Martin. I had missed the significance of some announcements I've previously read - I've now checked with a couple of articles, and I suspect that the way in which I am (not regularly) using the 2 Win 10 laptops will not be helping. I've normally brought them home(roughly every 4-6 weeks), backed up to them and then run the update process. Once done, I've shut them down and taken them back to store. From your post and what I've now also read, the likelihood is that they've not been fully updated and have been increasingly playing catch up. As it happens, with the 1709 upgrade, I suspect that both machines are fully up to date as there were further updates after the main one and I ran the process repeatedly until the machines were flagged as "up to date". It's a pity that the software does not have a method of informing the user of that which needs to be updated although I will acknowledge that sometimes, on repeatedly running the update process, some updates do re-appear to, eventually, install and disappear. The apparent significance of that is not communicated. I'll amend my methods and see what happens. One thing I don't like, though, is that you could find that your machine can't upgrade(say to a version like 1709), and therefore may go off support as little as 18 months later, even for security updates. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 21, 2017 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted December 21, 2017 Not really fair on Apple! It's their way of keeping your old phone running reliably when the software detects the battery has degraded. Replace the battery and normal speed is restored. Except they have denied doing it several times! Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted December 21, 2017 Share Posted December 21, 2017 The annoying part of yesterday's major update ?? My laptop has not have an update since Dec 16 and having forced run Window Update their are none available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted December 21, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 21, 2017 (edited) ?? My laptop has not have an update since Dec 16 and having forced run Window Update their are none available What version of Windows 10 is it running at the moment (start -> settings -> system -> about) ? EDIT: Is that Dec 2016 or Dec 16th? Edited December 21, 2017 by RFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted December 22, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 22, 2017 What version of Windows 10 is it running at the moment (start -> settings -> system -> about) ? EDIT: Is that Dec 2016 or Dec 16th? Start, type winver and click it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted December 22, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 22, 2017 Except they have denied doing it several times! Keith Exactly - if it really was about helping customers then it would be announced and fully visible, not denied until proved - but then given that people pay extraordinary amounts of money for Apple stuff I guess they believe anything. Even the battery replacement on the phones mentioned is somewhat more(£79) than the £3.00 I paid for a replacement on my phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymw Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 I don't know much about modern phone batteries, but did know a fair bit about Lithium-ion camera batteries. The capacity deteriorates over time, whether used or not, at about 5% per year. Cheaper batteries often do not have the protection built in, that is necessary - protection against over-charging, short circuits, gas venting, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurenceb Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 Would be interesting to see if it works when the battery is user changed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymw Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 and if you've a Lenova laptop pc, and install (Linux) Ubuntu 17.10, then you'll likely toast the bios. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted December 22, 2017 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted December 22, 2017 and if you've a Lenova laptop pc, and install (Linux) Ubuntu 17.10, then you'll likely toast the bios. . Why? The OS is independent of the BIOS and you should be able to install anything you want. The BIOS is held in a separate on board IC that should only be able to be (re)written to when you want to do it. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted December 22, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 22, 2017 (edited) and if you've a Lenova laptop pc, and install (Linux) Ubuntu 17.10, then you'll likely toast the bios. . When posting a statement like this it's worth providing a reference to avoid confusion - eg http://news.softpedia.com/news/ubuntu-17-10-corrupts-the-bios-of-some-lenovo-laptops-respin-isos-coming-soon-519060.shtml Why? The OS is independent of the BIOS and you should be able to install anything you want. The BIOS is held in a separate on board IC that should only be able to be (re)written to when you want to do it. Keith Edited December 22, 2017 by RFS 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymw Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 easy enough to use your favorite search engine, if you can be assed but another explanation https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/12/21/ubuntu_lenovo_bios/ just getting a bit annoyed with those lurkers who on perceiving a slight problem with w10 spout off about the wonders of linux and apple et al.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted December 22, 2017 Share Posted December 22, 2017 What version of Windows 10 is it running at the moment (start -> settings -> system -> about) ? EDIT: Is that Dec 2016 or Dec 16th? Version 1709 (OS Build 16299.125) which according to MS is dated 12 Dec 2017 Dec 16 2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RFS Posted December 22, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 22, 2017 (edited) Version 1709 (OS Build 16299.125) which according to MS is dated 12 Dec 2017 Dec 16 2017. That means you're bang up to date. Until the next patch Tuesday on January 9th 2018 .... Edited December 22, 2017 by RFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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